Servant Posted January 8, 2005 Posted January 8, 2005 God has the power to be here and not there.... Well than it's his decision not to be in a particular location and not in others, he has the choice therefore he is not omnipresent. How about if we call him: "periodically omnipresent"heh. no....He is omnipresent....His power is ALL......He hears us all at once...that has nothing to do with influence....He is with us all at once...that has nothing to do with influence...well it does...but His influence is power....because we can NOT do what He can...for HE IS.so you believe NOW that he is "periodically omnipresent"? well....I guess how I said it that would be a good phrase....but I was actually talking about God and his power...you said he couldnt be omnipresent....well if He wasnt then He wouldnt have ALL power...ALL power means He can do ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING AND BE EVERYWHERE AT ONCE....
Dan_ Posted January 8, 2005 Posted January 8, 2005 Its conceptual. An all powerful God would have no purpose. For all means, he is all powerful the same way a puppeteer is of a puppet (Analogy only works at small level, PLEASE dont do the egg thing to it lol... For instance a puppet has no intelligence, bla bla bla) He is all powerful over us and all we know. In any way we can concieve, he is all powerful. But if he was completely all powerful, he would not need to test us. He does not have the power to know the future for instance. Free agency. If he can *know the future, why would he endure the present? Why wouldnt we just go to the future? Its conceptual. Not definitive.I am a hypocrite
Servant Posted January 8, 2005 Posted January 8, 2005 Its conceptual. An all powerful God would have no purpose. For all means, he is all powerful the same way a puppeteer is of a puppet (Analogy only works at small level, PLEASE dont do the egg thing to it lol... For instance a puppet has no intelligence, bla bla bla) He is all powerful over us and all we know. In any way we can concieve, he is all powerful. But if he was completely all powerful, he would not need to test us. He does not have the power to know the future for instance. Free agency. If he can *know the future, why would he endure the present? Why wouldnt we just go to the future? Its conceptual. Not definitive.I am a hypocrite He is all powerful....the free will is a gift that He gave us....this doesnt work...sorry...and btw puppetmaster is a poor analogy...doesnt think lol lol....
Dan_ Posted January 8, 2005 Posted January 8, 2005 **and: Do you believe God knew what every single person would do with that free will when God "gave" it to us? Doesnt sound so free.Still, an infinitly powerful God makes no sense. He did make us, did he not? Why? He gave us free will because he loves us, but did he make us (I mean spirit, us as beings) because he loves us? Where did those spirits come from? God, yes, but... What is spirit? Faith... erg why do I ask so many questions. If thats how it is I give up on understanding and I think I'll go to bed now. My head hurts.
Servant Posted January 8, 2005 Posted January 8, 2005 Still, an infinitly powerful God makes no sense.how so?He did make us, did he not? Why? He gave us free will because he loves us, but did he make us (I mean spirit, us as beings) because he loves us? Where did those spirits come from? God, yes, but... What is spirit? Faith... Yeah god made us....He made us in flesh but we have souls/spirit....Spirit as in faith means pray in spirit like with all your heart.....spirit as in soul is different that is the image of God...
Dan_ Posted January 8, 2005 Posted January 8, 2005 .......What? My soul is the image of God? I know my flesh was made in Gods image but if my soul is Gods image then, uh, No worky, I think I need that nap I was talking about
Alexander Posted January 8, 2005 Posted January 8, 2005 He hears us all at once...that has nothing to do with influence....He is with us all at once...that has nothing to do with influence...well it does...but His influence is power....because we can NOT do what He can...for HE IS.so you believe NOW that he is "periodically omnipresent"? well....I guess how I said it that would be a good phrase....but I was actually talking about God and his power...you said he couldnt be omnipresent....well if He wasnt then He wouldnt have ALL power...ALL power means He can do ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING AND BE EVERYWHERE AT ONCE.... 1) I'm not talking about his power at all.2) if you believe "you said he couldnt be omnipresent....well if He wasnt then He wouldnt have ALL power...ALL power means He can do ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING AND BE EVERYWHERE AT ONCE...." than that's your decision. But, I for one, do not believe that his size has anything to do with his influence. Take it or leave it. Unless you can come up with scripture that states size and power are proportional.
Servant Posted January 8, 2005 Posted January 8, 2005 **and: Do you believe God knew what every single person would do with that free will when God "gave" it to us? Doesnt sound so free.Would he have ALL power if he didnt? That could be applied as "God influence people"...one could say that doesnt sound free...Would you appreciate the day if it was always night?
Servant Posted January 8, 2005 Posted January 8, 2005 He hears us all at once...that has nothing to do with influence....He is with us all at once...that has nothing to do with influence...well it does...but His influence is power....because we can NOT do what He can...for HE IS.so you believe NOW that he is "periodically omnipresent"? well....I guess how I said it that would be a good phrase....but I was actually talking about God and his power...you said he couldnt be omnipresent....well if He wasnt then He wouldnt have ALL power...ALL power means He can do ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING AND BE EVERYWHERE AT ONCE.... 1) I'm not talking about his power at all.2) if you believe "you said he couldnt be omnipresent....well if He wasnt then He wouldnt have ALL power...ALL power means He can do ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING AND BE EVERYWHERE AT ONCE...." than that's your decision. But, I for one, do not believe that his size has anything to do with his influence. Take it or leave it. Unless you can come up with scripture that states size and power are proportional. you are not talking about his power? Then what are you talking about then?omnipresent? Well that is power....that is ONE of ALL the power God has..
Dan_ Posted January 8, 2005 Posted January 8, 2005 What does God have to appreciate?You're making God sound like he is not a conscious being, but a new and all emcompassing concept of science and nature. That means God made morales. Ah! Then can God change whats right and wrong? Or is that above God? If it isnt, I, I, I..........
Alexander Posted January 8, 2005 Posted January 8, 2005 you are not talking about his power? Then what are you talking about then? I'm talking about omnipresence!You seem to be talking about omnipotence: http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=omnipotence
Servant Posted January 8, 2005 Posted January 8, 2005 .......What? My soul is the image of God? I know my flesh was made in Gods image but if my soul is Gods image then, uh, No worky, I think I need that nap I was talking about I assume you believe that God has flesh and bones and walked the earth? So show me where it says that God walked the earth...Also show me where God isnt a spirit....
Servant Posted January 8, 2005 Posted January 8, 2005 What does God have to appreciate?You're making God sound like he is not a conscious being, but a new and all emcompassing concept of science and nature. That means God made morales. Ah! Then can God change whats right and wrong? Or is that above God? If it isnt, I, I, I.......... No not God...us...sheesh...it sounds like you need a "nap"
Servant Posted January 8, 2005 Posted January 8, 2005 you are not talking about his power? Then what are you talking about then? I'm talking about omnipresence!You seem to be talking about omnipotence: http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=omnipotence Well then...in that same post that you copied from you would see "omnipresent? Well that is power....that is ONE of ALL the power God has.. "
Alexander Posted January 8, 2005 Posted January 8, 2005 Well then...in that same post that you copied from you would see "omnipresent? Well that is power....that is ONE of ALL the power God has.. " Omnipresence does not equal omnipotence. If you disagree than you are jeopardizing the very medium we use to communicate.
Servant Posted January 8, 2005 Posted January 8, 2005 Well then...in that same post that you copied from you would see "omnipresent? Well that is power....that is ONE of ALL the power God has.. " Omnipresence does not equal omnipotence. If you disagree than you are jeopardizing the very medium we use to communicate. I believe in both....because omnipresent, being everywhere at one time has EVERYTHING to do with omnipotent.God has "Infinite" power...God has unlimited power (meaning he CAN be EVERYWHERE at once)Here is the definition of omnipotent:om
1dc Posted January 8, 2005 Posted January 8, 2005 In the beginning Jesus was "the Word" ... "the Word" was not born of Heavenly parents but was eternally begotten.Yes, we can agree Jesus did exist before He was born of Mary, Johnny. But you seem to have skipped over this part:1dc
Alexander Posted January 8, 2005 Posted January 8, 2005 the problem is....you are denying one and accepting the other...and making it sound as if they are different....They ARE!Omnipotent: Having unlimited or universal powerOmnipresent: Present everywhere simultaneouslyLooks like a big difference to me.I think I'm being mocked. I don't know how you could have made the above statement with a straight face.tell me....if you could be everywhere at one time....would that mean you have power because you are able to do that?Omnipotence refers to ones ability to perform actions, omnipresence refers to the space one occupies. They have nothing to do with each other. God could be the size of a grain of sand and still be omnipotent.Anyway, this conversation is getting stale. I'll respond if you have something new to add.
Servant Posted January 8, 2005 Posted January 8, 2005 the problem is....you are denying one and accepting the other...and making it sound as if they are different....They ARE!Omnipotent: Having unlimited or universal powerOmnipresent: Present everywhere simultaneouslyLooks like a big difference to me.I think I'm being mocked. I don't know how you could have made the above statement with a straight face.tell me....if you could be everywhere at one time....would that mean you have power because you are able to do that?Omnipotence refers to ones ability to perform actions, omnipresence refers to the space one occupies. They have nothing to do with each other. God could be the size of a grain of sand and still be omnipotent.Anyway, this conversation is getting stale. I'll respond if you have something new to add. being mocked? no....Tell me...why cant you be everywhere at once? because you dont have power to do that.Omnipotence refers to ones ability to perform actions, omnipresence refers to the space one occupies.Yes...I agree.....this isnt a difference...God has power to "perform the action" of being everywhere all at once...NOW I see what the problem is...you think God doesnt have the power to be omnipresnece...that is actually basically what you have been saying all along...I get it...again thank you...if God does NOT have the power to be omnipresence then he is NOT omnipotence.Anyway, this conversation is getting stale. I'll respond if you have something new to add.are you reading my mind?
Alexander Posted January 8, 2005 Posted January 8, 2005 Yes...I agree.....this isnt a difference...God has power to "perform the action" of being everywhere all at once... If even one square millimeter of space is not occupied by God than he is not in an omnipresent state. Given the LDS view of God as someone who looks like a man than the space between his armpit hair is enough to make God non omnipresent. If he multiplies himself enough times to fill all of space for whatever reason (Godly boredom?) than he would be omnipresent. You see how ridiculous this is getting? Now if I see a flood of God
Servant Posted January 8, 2005 Posted January 8, 2005 Yes...I agree.....this isnt a difference...God has power to "perform the action" of being everywhere all at once... If even one square millimeter of space is not occupied by God than he is not in an omnipresent state. Given the LDS view of God as someone who looks like a man than the space between his armpit hair is enough to make God non omnipresent. If he multiplies himself enough times to fill all of space for whatever reason (Godly boredom?) than he would be omnipresent. You see how ridiculous this is getting? Now if I see a flood of God
Alexander Posted January 8, 2005 Posted January 8, 2005 Why didnt I see God in human form when I had my NDE?That is one thing I cannot answer nor will I. I don't make an attempt to analize other peoples experiences.My eyes hurt...I am sure yours too....and we did focus on this for a long time....so if your game...Mine are fine LCD displays don't hurt your eyes much at all. Which is good for me because I've been working solely on software for the past several days.
Servant Posted January 8, 2005 Posted January 8, 2005 Why didnt I see God in human form when I had my NDE?That is one thing I cannot answer nor will I. I don't make an attempt to analize other peoples experiences.My eyes hurt...I am sure yours too....and we did focus on this for a long time....so if your game...Mine are fine LCD displays don't hurt your eyes much at all. Which is good for me because I've been working solely on software for the past several days. actually the LCD screen doesnt but the light from it does...well mine anyways...well I assume you dont have a migraine either like I do now...(not from the discussion...but just woke up with a migraine).....So you are a programmar? Actually these last few days has been the longest I have been at my computer....at one time....
Alexander Posted January 8, 2005 Posted January 8, 2005 So you are a programmar? Actually these last few days has been the longest I have been at my computer....at one time.... Electrical engineering student who's working on a final project (which is patent pending so I won't spill what it is all over the place). I've been working on the software for it. It's tedious debug - wait for test - debug - wait for test work.
Servant Posted January 8, 2005 Posted January 8, 2005 So you are a programmar? Actually these last few days has been the longest I have been at my computer....at one time.... Electrical engineering student who's working on a final project (which is patent pending so I won't spill what it is all over the place). I've been working on the software for it. It's tedious debug - wait for test - debug - wait for test work. I feel for you...but admire the patience...which I wouldnt have....
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