johnny Posted January 7, 2005 Posted January 7, 2005 Tanyan writes, Johnny, HEBREW LAW OF DIVINE AGENCY !Modalistic/Sabellian Clover. Has substance/Corporeal your Clover must be incorporeal [ Except for one leaf=Jesus]. It's all connected. Sorry it does not work. Explain how it does not work ... could you explain it in terms of scripture ... thanks?Alexander writes, Power has nothing to do with size, but thanks for playing. God can direct his power anywhere he wants. Does power have anything to do with omnipresent?Heb writes, And if you are in, through and above everything, then you can't move and you can't separate yourself from anything. Do your scriptures saying that God moves lie? Jesus is saying his Father's power is in, through, and above everything.Of course God can move. The Holy Spirit is God. The Word is God. Jesus said you can abide in him or not abide in him ... sounds like movement.
Alexander Posted January 7, 2005 Posted January 7, 2005 Alexander writes, Power has nothing to do with size, but thanks for playing. God can direct his power anywhere he wants. Does power have anything to do with omnipresent? No. But Servant says God is not powerful enough to do what he does if he wasn't omnipresent.
Herb Posted January 7, 2005 Posted January 7, 2005 Psalm 139 also says the morning has wings, shall we believe that too? It is poetry, written as poetry and uses poetic license. It is the same as modern poets telling someone they love that they see them everywhere they go, or the grieving seeing their departed love one in all the places they use to go.Psalm 7-10More poetry, nothing concerning omnipresence. But we do read that God : gets angry; is indignant every day; has a finger; has hands and feet;sits; is a high tower; is sitting(9:19) "Arise, O Jehovah"; stands;sees;hears. But nothing of omnipresence. Wait a minute......yeah it is poetry and it has truth....wings is a metaphor....however the meaning is not....the meaning is God is everywhere and that is where the truth lays....I also pointed out what Jesus said....Jesus will be in the middle of people who are in prayer....and focus on how many church services there is at one time.... You assume a literal meaning when it fits your needs and disgard the rest as a metaphor because it is contrary to your opinion. Therefore what you present is your opinion of the scripture based upon your bias.Mt 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them. Who is Jesus addressing? Certainly not the general populace, but the disciples present, the apostles. Otherwise explain how the following verses apply to the general assembly:Mt 18:18-19Verily I say unto you, what things soever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and what things soever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.Again I say unto you, that if two of you shall agree on earth as touching anything that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father who is in heaven.Is that meant for the common folk, to have that same type of authority? say what? No it has nothing to do with an opionion...it has to do with what the bible says. Are you saying that psalms isnt scripture? Why do you ignore this scripture which btw is NOT poetry...Matt. 18:20 - Jesus says where two or three are gathered in His name, there He is in the midst of them...see how the psalms harmonizes with Matt 18;20? What you are saying does not. LOL! You admittedly dismissed parts of Psalms as metaphor ("....wings is a metaphor...."),then brazenly claim that because it says what you want it to, it is to be taken literal. It is totally opinion as to the verses meaning.Why do you ignore the passages immediatley prior to Mt 18:20? Please read more carefully next time. We all miss, unintentionally and sometimes not, parts of posts as you have just done.
Servant Posted January 7, 2005 Posted January 7, 2005 Why is it that other mormons has different answers than you? One said that God can NOT be everywhere at once....God can be anywhere He wants...and everywhere at one time....other members are not agreeing with what you are saying they believe that God can NOT be everywhere at one time....because God is "not omnipresent".So which is it...Is God omnipresent or not?(oh and by the way since you and another focused on my psalms can you also focus on this Matt. 18:20 - Jesus says where two or three are gathered in His name, there He is in the midst of them). Find me a Latter-day Saint that says God is omnipresent. Oh, and regard to Matt 18:20. If God is everywhere than why does this even need to be stated in the first place?PS: You forgot to answer my question by the way: Is God not powerful enough to be anywhere he wants despite not being omnipresent? (among others) Instead you fired back saying I'm not agreeing with other Latter-day Saints. I am saying one mormon said that God can NOT be everwhere....at once.You said God can be anywhere He wants which is true...and also that means He can be anywhere EVERYWHERE He wants...I am asking why does one say He cant but you are saying something different?And that is why Matt 18:20 has to be stated...and that is why I said why does your view differ from others?I did answer your question....which I agree but other mormons are saying he cant be everwhere...because he is not omnipresent but being everwhere at once means he IS omnipresent.
Herb Posted January 7, 2005 Posted January 7, 2005 Jesus is saying his Father's power is in, through, and above everything.Of course God can move. The Holy Spirit is God. The Word is God. Jesus said you can abide in him or not abide in him ... sounds like movement. Ephesians 4:6 says nothing about Go'ds power being in, through and above everything. Please introduce the scripture you derived this from.God moves, so He cannot be omnipresent.
Servant Posted January 7, 2005 Posted January 7, 2005 Alexander writes, Power has nothing to do with size, but thanks for playing. God can direct his power anywhere he wants. Does power have anything to do with omnipresent? No. But Servant says God is not powerful enough to do what he does if he wasn't omnipresent. maybe you should define what omnipresent means then?It means that one can be EVERYWHERE at once.NOT being ominpresent means you cant. So how can you have that much power if God is NOT ominpresent?Not ominpresent is limited...cant do all....but being ominpresent means there is no limit that God can be everywhere at one time....
Herb Posted January 7, 2005 Posted January 7, 2005 Not ominpresent is limited...cant do all....Why is that so? Where is it stated that the form of God limits His function?
Alexander Posted January 7, 2005 Posted January 7, 2005 I am saying one mormon said that God can NOT be everwhere....at once.You said God can be anywhere He wants which is true...and also that means He can be anywhere EVERYWHERE He wants...I am asking why does one say He cant but you are saying something different?And that is why Matt 18:20 has to be stated...and that is why I said why does your view differ from others?I did answer your question....which I agree but other mormons are saying he cant be everwhere...because he is not omnipresent but being everwhere at once means he IS omnipresent. Now I understand what you mean. I think we are coming from two different perspectives but saying the same thing. I believe God is in a time of his own, outside of our time. He is only in one location in space but he is not bound by time. (eg. being in the middle of one heavenly visitation and having to hurry to the next)
Servant Posted January 7, 2005 Posted January 7, 2005 Psalm 139 also says the morning has wings, shall we believe that too? It is poetry, written as poetry and uses poetic license. It is the same as modern poets telling someone they love that they see them everywhere they go, or the grieving seeing their departed love one in all the places they use to go.Psalm 7-10More poetry, nothing concerning omnipresence. But we do read that God : gets angry; is indignant every day; has a finger; has hands and feet;sits; is a high tower; is sitting(9:19) "Arise, O Jehovah"; stands;sees;hears. But nothing of omnipresence. Wait a minute......yeah it is poetry and it has truth....wings is a metaphor....however the meaning is not....the meaning is God is everywhere and that is where the truth lays....I also pointed out what Jesus said....Jesus will be in the middle of people who are in prayer....and focus on how many church services there is at one time.... You assume a literal meaning when it fits your needs and disgard the rest as a metaphor because it is contrary to your opinion. Therefore what you present is your opinion of the scripture based upon your bias.Mt 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them. Who is Jesus addressing? Certainly not the general populace, but the disciples present, the apostles. Otherwise explain how the following verses apply to the general assembly:Mt 18:18-19Verily I say unto you, what things soever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and what things soever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.Again I say unto you, that if two of you shall agree on earth as touching anything that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father who is in heaven.Is that meant for the common folk, to have that same type of authority? say what? No it has nothing to do with an opionion...it has to do with what the bible says. Are you saying that psalms isnt scripture? Why do you ignore this scripture which btw is NOT poetry...Matt. 18:20 - Jesus says where two or three are gathered in His name, there He is in the midst of them...see how the psalms harmonizes with Matt 18;20? What you are saying does not. LOL! You admittedly dismissed parts of Psalms as metaphor ("....wings is a metaphor...."),then brazenly claim that because it says what you want it to, it is to be taken literal. It is totally opinion as to the verses meaning.Why do you ignore the passages immediatley prior to Mt 18:20? Please read more carefully next time. We all miss, unintentionally and sometimes not, parts of posts as you have just done. again are you saying that psalms is NOT scripture....I am talking about the meaning of the poem I am not focusing on "wings".....Matt 18;20...well read the whole thing it doesnt change the fact of what I said.....Read it from verse 15 to 20...it doesnt change that "for where two or three are gathered together in my name there am I in the midst of them"...read it...read the whole chapter if you will...it still doesnt change the fact that Jesus will be in the midst of a gathering when at prayer....He is RIGHT there at the SAME time as others are doing the same thing....
Alexander Posted January 7, 2005 Posted January 7, 2005 maybe you should define what omnipresent means then?It means that one can be EVERYWHERE at once. No, omnipresent is: "Present everywhere simultaneously." not "Can be present everywhere simultaneously."http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=omnipresent%20
Servant Posted January 7, 2005 Posted January 7, 2005 Not ominpresent is limited...cant do all....Why is that so? Where is it stated that the form of God limits His function? define what ominpresent means...I gave out the definition...so what doesNOT being ominpresent mean?If God cant be everywhere at one time...then He IS limited....And if God cant send HIS spirit and make himself flesh (Jesus) then He is limited.
johnny Posted January 7, 2005 Posted January 7, 2005 Alexander writes,>Does power have anything to do with omnipresent? No.Are you saying that their is some place where God does not have power?Herb writes,Ephesians 4:6 says nothing about Go'ds power being in, through and above everything. Please introduce the scripture you derived this from. God is Almighty (Gen 17:1) God moves, so He cannot be omnipresent. Do you think the Holy Ghost is God?Do you think the Holy Ghost can move?Do you think the Holy Ghost is Almightyt?
Servant Posted January 7, 2005 Posted January 7, 2005 I am saying one mormon said that God can NOT be everwhere....at once.You said God can be anywhere He wants which is true...and also that means He can be anywhere EVERYWHERE He wants...I am asking why does one say He cant but you are saying something different?And that is why Matt 18:20 has to be stated...and that is why I said why does your view differ from others?I did answer your question....which I agree but other mormons are saying he cant be everwhere...because he is not omnipresent but being everwhere at once means he IS omnipresent. Now I understand what you mean. I think we are coming from two different perspectives but saying the same thing. I believe God is in a time of his own, outside of our time. He is only in one location in space but he is not bound by time. (eg. being in the middle of one heavenly visitation and having to hurry to the next) see how confusing it is...ok...gotchya
Servant Posted January 7, 2005 Posted January 7, 2005 maybe you should define what omnipresent means then?It means that one can be EVERYWHERE at once. No, omnipresent is: "Present everywhere simultaneously." not "Can be present everywhere simultaneously."http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=omnipresent%20 Define this please"being EVERYWHERE at the same time"
Alexander Posted January 7, 2005 Posted January 7, 2005 Define this please"being EVERYWHERE at the same time" Just what it says, everywhere at the same time. If you went to mars, you would be inside the body of God, if you went to Japan you would be inside the body of God, if you went to hell you would be inside the body of God, if you went to this frozen hell called Canada you would be inside the body of God.
Servant Posted January 7, 2005 Posted January 7, 2005 Define this please"being EVERYWHERE at the same time" Just what it says, everywhere at the same time. If you went to mars, you would be inside the body of God, if you went to Japan you would be inside the body of God, if you went to hell you would be inside the body of God, if you went to this frozen hell called Canada you would be inside the body of God. well you are speaking about one person...I am speaking about every single person.
Alexander Posted January 7, 2005 Posted January 7, 2005 Define this please"being EVERYWHERE at the same time" Just what it says, everywhere at the same time. If you went to mars, you would be inside the body of God, if you went to Japan you would be inside the body of God, if you went to hell you would be inside the body of God, if you went to this frozen hell called Canada you would be inside the body of God. well you are speaking about one person...I am speaking about every single person. I have no idea what you mean.
Herb Posted January 7, 2005 Posted January 7, 2005 again are you saying that psalms is NOT scripture....I am talking about the meaning of the poem I am not focusing on "wings".....Matt 18;20...well read the whole thing it doesnt change the fact of what I said.....Read it from verse 15 to 20...it doesnt change that "for where two or three are gathered together in my name there am I in the midst of them"...read it...read the whole chapter if you will...it still doesnt change the fact that Jesus will be in the midst of a gathering when at prayer....He is RIGHT there at the SAME time as others are doing the same thing.... Because something is labeled "scripture" does not necessitate it being taken as literal. Psalms is scripture, but it is poetry as well. The descriptions of God being everywhere in it are not meant in a literal sense, but as a metaphor. Read the whole of the selections you gave, it is full of metaphors; you can't escape them! Your's is just one of many listed in those passages.Of course reading them doesn't change the presence of Mt 18:20, but the preceeding passages frame the meaning. It is not a general proclaimation, but one for the apostles. Otherwise, wherever 2 or 3 people gather, and they ask for something, it would be done by God in Heaven(no limits are put on Mt 18:19). Can you imagine the chaos it would cause, for God to be at the mercy of every little group of 2 or 3?
Servant Posted January 7, 2005 Posted January 7, 2005 again are you saying that psalms is NOT scripture....I am talking about the meaning of the poem I am not focusing on "wings".....Matt 18;20...well read the whole thing it doesnt change the fact of what I said.....Read it from verse 15 to 20...it doesnt change that "for where two or three are gathered together in my name there am I in the midst of them"...read it...read the whole chapter if you will...it still doesnt change the fact that Jesus will be in the midst of a gathering when at prayer....He is RIGHT there at the SAME time as others are doing the same thing.... Because something is labeled "scripture" does not necessitate it being taken as literal. Psalms is scripture, but it is poetry as well. The descriptions of God being everywhere in it are not meant in a literal sense, but as a metaphor. Read the whole of the selections you gave, it is full of metaphors; you can't escape them! Your's is just one of many listed in those passages.Of course reading them doesn't change the presence of Mt 18:20, but the preceeding passages frame the meaning. It is not a general proclaimation, but one for the apostles. Otherwise, wherever 2 or 3 people gather, and they ask for something, it would be done by God in Heaven(no limits are put on Mt 18:19). Can you imagine the chaos it would cause, for God to be at the mercy of every little group of 2 or 3? So in other words Psalms is a scam...nothing in there is true... anyways...as far as matt 18;20....why are you focusing on the numbers? It doesnt say just 2 or just 3....It is actually talking about worship....are you saying Jesus is NOT in church services? How many church services are there at one time?
Servant Posted January 7, 2005 Posted January 7, 2005 Define this please"being EVERYWHERE at the same time" Just what it says, everywhere at the same time. If you went to mars, you would be inside the body of God, if you went to Japan you would be inside the body of God, if you went to hell you would be inside the body of God, if you went to this frozen hell called Canada you would be inside the body of God. well you are speaking about one person...I am speaking about every single person. I have no idea what you mean. well can God do that to everybody at one time? If yes...then God is ominpresentif no...please explain why not
johnny Posted January 7, 2005 Posted January 7, 2005 Herb writes,Can you imagine the chaos it would cause, for God to be at the mercy of every little group of 2 or 3? Can you image the omniprence of the Holy Spirit?The Holy Spirit is God ... the Holy Spirit is Almighty ...
Herb Posted January 7, 2005 Posted January 7, 2005 Gen 17:1 It fits! That God has a distinct form!And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, Jehovah appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am God Almighty; walk before me, and be thou perfect.Abram can't walk before someone who is omnipresent, or in, through and above him. You can walk through, but not before.Do you think the Holy Ghost is God?Do you think the Holy Ghost can move?Do you think the Holy Ghost is Almightyt? Those aren't arguements, just questions.Can you image the omniprence of the Holy Spirit?The Holy Spirit is God ... the Holy Spirit is Almighty ...It's not omnipresent, that's the point.
Alexander Posted January 7, 2005 Posted January 7, 2005 well can God do that to everybody at one time? If yes...then God is ominpresentif no...please explain why not Regarding your first question I don't know what God is doing but that's irrelevant. Can he do it to everyone at the same time? If God's time works the way I think it might than yes.Why can't he be omnipresent? To be omnipresent means to be everywhere at the same time, no exceptions.Acts 7:24 - God not in temples made with handsGen 1:2 - God moving. To move you must be somewhere and not somewhere else. There are practically hundreds of examples in the Bible describing God moving, in one spot or not in another. Something and omnipresent being cannot do.
Servant Posted January 7, 2005 Posted January 7, 2005 well can God do that to everybody at one time? If yes...then God is ominpresentif no...please explain why not Regarding your first question I don't know what God is doing but that's irrelevant. Can he do it to everyone at the same time? If God's time works the way I think it might than yes.Why can't he be omnipresent? To be omnipresent means to be everywhere at the same time, no exceptions.Acts 7:24 - God not in temples made with handsGen 1:2 - God moving. To move you must be somewhere and not somewhere else. There are practically hundreds of examples in the Bible describing God moving, in one spot or not in another. Something and omnipresent being cannot do. When you go to worship God...is God there or Jesus?How many services are there at one time?
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