Herb Posted January 7, 2005 Posted January 7, 2005 So in other words Psalms is a scam...nothing in there is true...anyways...as far as matt 18;20....why are you focusing on the numbers? It doesnt say just 2 or just 3....It is actually talking about worship....are you saying Jesus is NOT in church services? How many church services are there at one time? Where did I write that it, Psalms, is a scam? I wrote that it's full of metaphors and quite rightly so. It's like an egg... Mt 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them. Looks like it says "2 or 3" to me. And it is addressing the apostles not the general populace.Yes I am saying that Jesus is not in all church services. Can you show where, scripturally, that Jesus has appeared in the presence of multiple groups(3 or more), at once, in Spirit form?
Alexander Posted January 7, 2005 Posted January 7, 2005 When you go to worship God...is God there or Jesus?How many services are there at one time? First, you did not address a single point I brought up.Second, I'll answer your question with another question: If two people speak at the same time to you, can you hear them both?
johnny Posted January 7, 2005 Posted January 7, 2005 Herb writes,Abram can't walk before someone who is omnipresent, or in, through and above him. You can walk through, but not before.You have it all mixed up ... God's presence can be before, through, and above him. The Father is the husbandman, the Son is the true vine, and men can be the temple of the Holy Ghost. The Father is God ... the Son is God ... the Holy Ghost is God.>Do you think the Holy Ghost is God?>Do you think the Holy Ghost can move?>Do you think the Holy Ghost is Almightyt?Those aren't arguements, just questions.What are your answers?It's not omnipresent, that's the point. Are you saying that the influnce Holy Spirit is not everywhere?
Servant Posted January 7, 2005 Posted January 7, 2005 You cant take metaphors like "wings" litterally...the meaning is what matters.Well didnt He say to the apostles that He will send the Holy Spirit to them? So that means since Jesus was talking to them....He didnt mean you or me or anybody else?
Servant Posted January 7, 2005 Posted January 7, 2005 When you go to worship God...is God there or Jesus?How many services are there at one time? First, you did not address a single point I brought up.Second, I'll answer your question with another question: If two people speak at the same time to you, can you hear them both? well I was asking you a question so I could address your question.can two people that talks at the same time...well both of my kids does this all the time....I have to stop them because I cant hear what is being said when both are talking at the same time....but I am not ominpresent, only God is....He can...
Alexander Posted January 7, 2005 Posted January 7, 2005 well I was asking you a question so I could address your question.can two people that talks at the same time...well both of my kids does this all the time....I have to stop them because I cant hear what is being said when both are talking at the same time....but I am not ominpresent, only God is....He can... previous question 1) The spirit is quite often, but I haven't seen God or Jesus personally.Previous question 2) lotsOmnipresence has nothing to do with the ability to focus on two or more conversations at once. Weather my God who is standing in front of a group all talking at once or yours around and through a group all talking at once makes no difference, both will pick it up.
Herb Posted January 7, 2005 Posted January 7, 2005 You have it all mixed up ... God's presence can be before, through, and above him. The Father is the husbandman, the Son is the true vine, and men can be the temple of the Holy Ghost. The Father is God ... the Son is God ... the Holy Ghost is God.The scripture doesn't say "presence";it says "God Almighty". Abram walked before Him, therefore He has a form to walk before. If he has a form, then He is not omnipresent.What are your answersMy answer is you haven't presented an arguement.Are you saying that the influnce Holy Spirit is not everywhere?I am saying that the Holy Spirit is not everywhere.
Servant Posted January 7, 2005 Posted January 7, 2005 QUOTE Are you saying that the influnce Holy Spirit is not everywhere? I am saying that the Holy Spirit is not everywhere.because it is impossible?
johnny Posted January 7, 2005 Posted January 7, 2005 Herb writes,The scripture doesn't say "presence";it says "God Almighty". Abram walked before Him, therefore He has a form to walk before. If he has a form, then He is not omnipresent.Almighty is associated with power and presence. To walk before Him is to abide in his Word. It does not imply form. My answer is you haven't presented an arguement. Why do you need an argument to answer simple questions? I am saying that the Holy Spirit is not everywhere. I asked about his "influnce" ... is his "influnce" everywhere?
Alexander Posted January 7, 2005 Posted January 7, 2005 The fact remains Servant, is that there are clear verses that describe God as NOT in specific places. An omnipresent being cannot not be in one spot, that is how omnipresent is defined. It is the truck that breaks the camels back you could say. What we think about what is impossible for God or don't think or whatever you can ask about us makes no difference, God is not omnipresent, the Bible clearly shows that and you have yet to address it.
johnny Posted January 7, 2005 Posted January 7, 2005 Alexander writes, God is not omnipresent, Didn't earlier you say his power is omnipresent or did I mis-understand you?
johnny Posted January 7, 2005 Posted January 7, 2005 Alexander writes,Doesn't matter, God is not omnipresent, case closed (unless of course you wish to address what the bible actually says in comparison to the definition of omnipresence for once). You know me I always like to address what the bible actually says ... could you present some scriptures that makes your point. Keep in mind that the Holy Ghost is God and the Holy Ghost is Almighty.
Alexander Posted January 7, 2005 Posted January 7, 2005 You know me I always like to address what the bible actually says ... could you present some scriptures that makes your point. Keep in mind that the Holy Ghost is God and the Holy Ghost is Almighty. Here it is copied and pasted from 14 posts up:Why can't he be omnipresent? To be omnipresent means to be everywhere at the same time, no exceptions.Acts 7:24 - God not in temples made with handsGen 1:2 - God moving. To move you must be somewhere and not somewhere else. There are practically hundreds of examples in the Bible describing God moving, in one spot or not in another. Something and omnipresent being cannot do.
Herb Posted January 7, 2005 Posted January 7, 2005 You cant take metaphors like "wings" litterally...the meaning is what matters. But you are taking the metaphor literally. That is the point.Well didnt He say to the apostles that He will send the Holy Spirit to them? So that means since Jesus was talking to them....He didnt mean you or me or anybody else?Yes he was talking to the apostles. Was Christ only for them? If not why would the Comforter be only for them? In Matthew He talks to the Apostles about them and their responsibilities. In John 16:13-14, Jesus speaks of the Comforter, not as a responsibility, but as a "guide" in truthfulness and as a witness to Christ. It is quite a different setting from charging the apostles.
maj Posted January 7, 2005 Posted January 7, 2005 If you want to have the trinity explained, I suggest those of you who don't have access to a Catechism of the Catholic Church either pick one up at the library or go online. It explains it in a clear and simple manner. My 8 year old grasps the meaning of the trinity. God is the Creator, not the creature. Our minds and intelligences are limited. God cannot be understood in purely human terms. And besides if we knew and understood everything, where is the room for faith? John 17:3
johnny Posted January 7, 2005 Posted January 7, 2005 Alexander writes,Why can't he be omnipresent? To be omnipresent means to be everywhere at the same time, no exceptions. Onmipresent can also mean his "influence" can be everywhere at the same time. Hebrews 13 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:Acts 7:24 - God not in temples made with handsGod's Spirit is outside the temple but "the word of his power" is still upholding all things.Gen 1:2 - God moving. To move you must be somewhere and not somewhere else. God's Spirit can move but "the word of his power" is still upholding all things. There are practically hundreds of examples in the Bible describing God moving, in one spot or not in another. Something and omnipresent being cannot do. By upholding "all things" by the word of his power he is omnipresent.
Herb Posted January 7, 2005 Posted January 7, 2005 Almighty is associated with power and presence. To walk before Him is to abide in his Word. It does not imply form.Abraham proceeded to fall on his face in worship. If there wasn't a direction where God was, then why hide his downward? An omnipresent God would be there also. Scofield notes that, "All-sufficient" would have been a better Hebrew rendering. Almighty does not imply omnipresence.Why do you need an argument to answer simple questions?You haven't answered the arguement, so why the simple questions?I asked about his "influnce" ... is his "influnce" everywhere?Influence and presence are two different aspects. The original question was about the omnipresence of Deity.
johnny Posted January 7, 2005 Posted January 7, 2005 Alexander writes,So God isn't omnipresent but his power is? Sure I can accept that. IMO saying his power is omnipresent is the same as saying God is omnipresent.
johnny Posted January 7, 2005 Posted January 7, 2005 Herb writes,Abraham proceeded to fall on his face in worship. If there wasn't a direction where God was, then why hide his downward? An omnipresent God would be there also. Scofield notes that, "All-sufficient" would have been a better Hebrew rendering. Almighty does not imply omnipresence. IMO that is reading to much into the verse ... to fall on your face is simlpy the act of worship, it does not reveal that God's form was in a particular direction. What do you mean by "hide his downward" ... is this in the scripture? Almighty is associated with "most powerful" according to Strong's.Influence and presence are two different aspects. The original question was about the omnipresence of Deity. Do you believe that God's influence is everywhere?Do you believe that God's power is everywhere?
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