Helen47 Posted June 4, 2014 Posted June 4, 2014 http://www.patheos.com/blogs/samrocha/2014/05/now-this-is-news-nicea-2025/ reconcilation between east and western christianity?
Helen47 Posted June 4, 2014 Author Posted June 4, 2014 I found it interesting that the late church historian Jaroslav Peliken converted to orthodox xtianty at the end of his life from Lutheranism.
halconero Posted June 4, 2014 Posted June 4, 2014 The headline of the article is a bit flashy...from what I've read in other sources it sounds like they're more just getting together for a celebration. I don't expect to see any establishment of doctrine, or healing of the schism between Roman Catholicism and Orthodoxy.
Spammer Posted June 4, 2014 Posted June 4, 2014 The headline of the article is a bit flashy...from what I've read in other sources it sounds like they're more just getting together for a celebration. I don't expect to see any establishment of doctrine, or healing of the schism between Roman Catholicism and Orthodoxy. Healing the schism will require either Rome to relinquish claims to papal supremacy and infallibility or the Orthodox to accept those claims. I pray for healing, but see no reason to think that either will occur anytime soon.
Daniel Peterson Posted June 5, 2014 Posted June 5, 2014 I found it interesting that the late church historian Jaroslav Peliken converted to orthodox xtianty at the end of his life from Lutheranism. "To be deep in history," wrote John Henry Cardinal Newman (himself a convert to Catholicism from the Church of England), "is to cease to be a Protestant." 2
Helen47 Posted June 5, 2014 Author Posted June 5, 2014 People make tranisitions throughout the religious world.I think in the orthodox world your religion seems like your ethnic identity. I remember my niece who studied Russian history and taught it at university said that in Russia the orthodox church was part of the culture, you did not leave it even if you never went to church except for your baptism, weddings and funerals. The same happens with Greek orthodox.Maybe thats why the Russian authorities were hostile to western religions flying in.
3DOP Posted June 5, 2014 Posted June 5, 2014 (edited) "To be deep in history," wrote John Henry Cardinal Newman (himself a convert to Catholicism from the Church of England), "is to cease to be a Protestant." Dr. Pete, Greetings and my regards to you. I have been wanting to speak with you about an author that I had been very pleased with even before I learned his background. At first I assumed he was a Muslim. Then I found out he was British born and so I assumed his Islamic tendencies were perhaps muted by Western influences. And then, today, I found out he was a convert to Catholicism who in explaining his conversion cited John Henry Newman, apparently identifying with Newman's reasons for "ceasing to be a Protestant" in a rare speech he gave regarding his faith. I speak of Albert Hourani, whose work A History of the Arab Peoples, I have owned for over twenty years without reading...until the last few weeks. I greedily finished it today. I was sorry I was finished and went perusing the internet to find out more of the author to see if he had more to say post 1991 (the year of my book's publication) about Arabic/Muslim developments. I found that he was passed away in 1993. But that is where I also learned that he was of my own faith! I think his book was one of those History Book Club selections that used to arrive unless you stopped it. Besides being eminently readable, I was struck with how knowledgeable he was about the Christianity (now I see why) with which the Muslim Arab mixed, as well as an inability to detect any particular bias in favor of anybody. He just seemed like a knowledgeable reporter. I thoroughly enjoyed reading about historical events with which I was familiar from a perspective of the Christian West, from the Muslim/Arabic side. I always knew how scared Rome was about the Turkish threat culminating in the Battle of Lepanto. I didn't appreciate how the Ottomans were scared of the West early and later of the Russians. I will never think of the Arab people again without recalling how they were once a civilization with a unity different, but comparable to the greatest days of Rome. I think he has made me into a willing admirer of many things that are authentically Arabic. In a way, I am sorry Hourani turns out to be Catholic because I thought I was being so daringly liberal by reading this book by a presumed apologist for Islam! Anyway, this is obviously a strain to keep within the intent of the thread, discussing "Nicea 2024", whatever that might offer. It so happens that Hourani's parents had been from Lebanon and Greek Orthodox but converted to Scottish Presbyterianism when they emigrated to England. Hourani's life was nothing if not a mix of East and West. There's my excuse for talking about him to you. Anyway, if you are inclined, I would be interested in your candid appraisal of Hourani's work if you are familiar. Can you recommend any commentators that give a fair evaluation of the last twenty years of Islamic/Arabic attitudes towards the West or vice versa? Best, Rory Edited June 5, 2014 by 3DOP
Darren10 Posted June 5, 2014 Posted June 5, 2014 From fellow blogger Hamous, himself a practicing Roman catholic to other fellow blogger, Texmo, himself a convert to Orthodox Christianity. Superb article! https://www.osv.com/OSVNewsweekly/Article/TabId/535/ArtMID/13567/ArticleID/14703/The-search-for-unity.aspx
Avatar4321 Posted June 5, 2014 Posted June 5, 2014 What can we expect?The ministering of angels revealing that everyone should become Mormon:) hehe
mfbukowski Posted June 8, 2014 Posted June 8, 2014 People make tranisitions throughout the religious world.I think in the orthodox world your religion seems like your ethnic identity. I remember my niece who studied Russian history and taught it at university said that in Russia the orthodox church was part of the culture, you did not leave it even if you never went to church except for your baptism, weddings and funerals. The same happens with Greek orthodox.Maybe thats why the Russian authorities were hostile to western religions flying in.And this is why ex-Mormons leave the church but cannot leave it alone. I often see them saying something like "I am a sixth generation Mormon, BUT...." as if that should make them "more" Mormon.
The Nehor Posted June 8, 2014 Posted June 8, 2014 Cue the "Left Behinders" expecting this to unify all world religions in preparation for the Rapture and the Tribulation. It will be fun to watch.
Helen47 Posted June 8, 2014 Author Posted June 8, 2014 I think a lot of people do not leave it alone because it's interesting studying the origins of a religion. Outiide you get a different perspective. U can watch with sad amusement the apologetics sprouted with the BOA and BOM.I consider myself a christian universalist such as William Barkley so I cannot say Mormonss are not going to heaven but I am pretty sure there is no three tiered place people will end up in. I read the biographies of the likes of Smith and Ellen G White. Both claimed revelation, both founded churches which have grown with some success.Ronald Number's wife has a interestig chapter on the psychological condition of White. Perhaps Smith juggling wives, critics and other issues had he own set of neurosis.
mfbukowski Posted June 8, 2014 Posted June 8, 2014 (edited) I think a lot of people do not leave it alone because it's interesting studying the origins of a religion. Outiide you get a different perspective. U can watch with sad amusement the apologetics sprouted with the BOA and BOM.I consider myself a christian universalist such as William Barkley so I cannot say Mormonss are not going to heaven but I am pretty sure there is no three tiered place people will end up in. I read the biographies of the likes of Smith and Ellen G White. Both claimed revelation, both founded churches which have grown with some success.Ronald Number's wife has a interestig chapter on the psychological condition of White. Perhaps Smith juggling wives, critics and other issues had he own set of neurosis.As a former atheist myself, I suggest you continue your studies. Trust me, I know both sides VERY well, and the rationales behind all of them. "Religion" does not even need to be based on God, much less three heavens or 72 virgins, or three beings with the same "substance", whatever that means. http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2013/apr/04/religion-without-god/ If we can separate God from religion—if we can come to understand what the religious point of view really is and why it does not require or assume a supernatural person—then we may be able to lower, at least, the temperature of these battles by separating questions of science from questions of value. The new religious wars are now really culture wars. They are not just about scientific history—about what best accounts for the development of the human species, for instance—but more fundamentally about the meaning of human life and what living well means. As we shall see, logic requires a separation between the scientific and value parts of orthodox godly religion. When we separate these properly we discover that they are fully independent: the value part does not depend—cannot depend—on any god’s existence or history. If we accept this, then we formidably shrink both the size and the importance of the wars. They would no longer be culture wars. This ambition is utopian: violent and nonviolent religious wars reflect hatreds deeper than philosophy can address. But a little philosophy might help.This argument works just as well for religions with a personal God who is human as well as for no god at all. When you can divorce "facts" from beliefs accepted on faith which enrich your life, all this arguing becomes moot. Edited June 8, 2014 by mfbukowski 1
Helen47 Posted June 9, 2014 Author Posted June 9, 2014 Why is it some people come accross the same "facts" and reach a different conclusion to you. One could say you are just stubborn and too proud to face the truth that you might be wasting yourime. You probably would counter we were just looking for a reason to sin.(typical Mormon mantra). Those people who appear in the series Mormons in Transitions (John Morehead) seem decent living people.They would try not to sin, not because they fear the interview with the Bishpop but because it would affect their relationship with God and there fellow human beings. I use to think Nibley had some goodargumentd for the BOA. I read the other papers (Baer) etc and his letters to Walters. Nibley now seemed like a lawyer trying to get his client off the hook rather than a scholar.
mfbukowski Posted June 9, 2014 Posted June 9, 2014 Why is it some people come accross the same "facts" and reach a different conclusion to you. One could say you are just stubborn and too proud to face the truth that you might be wasting yourime. You probably would counter we were just looking for a reason to sin.(typical Mormon mantra). Those people who appear in the series Mormons in Transitions (John Morehead) seem decent living people.They would try not to sin, not because they fear the interview with the Bishpop but because it would affect their relationship with God and there fellow human beings. I use to think Nibley had some goodargumentd for the BOA. I read the other papers (Baer) etc and his letters to Walters. Nibley now seemed like a lawyer trying to get his client off the hook rather than a scholar.You did not understand my post.
The Nehor Posted June 9, 2014 Posted June 9, 2014 Why is it some people come accross the same "facts" and reach a different conclusion to you. This may shock you but there is no universally accepted standard for the burden of proof....for anything.
Recommended Posts