mercyngrace Posted May 18, 2014 Posted May 18, 2014 Does anyone know when the plan of salvation diagram became part of our standard explanation of the life of the soul? Mid-1950s? Earlier? Thanks!MnG
Senator Posted May 18, 2014 Posted May 18, 2014 Does anyone know when the plan of salvation diagram became part of our standard explanation of the life of the soul? Mid-1950s? Earlier? Thanks!MnG What do you mean by "diagram"?
mercyngrace Posted May 18, 2014 Author Posted May 18, 2014 The one that was/is in missionary flip charts, primary manuals, youth manuals, etc. Can't attach an image right now because I'm at church on my phone. (I know.... I know....don't judge me....)
readstoomuch Posted May 18, 2014 Posted May 18, 2014 Since it is not an official diagram, I don`t know the year. I saw it in the 70`s and used it on my mission in the 80`s. It takes an incredibly powerful doctrine and tries to make it understandable. I find problems with it, but had some positive experiences wih people learning from the diagram. It works the best when there are scriptures with it.
mercyngrace Posted May 18, 2014 Author Posted May 18, 2014 Since it is not an official diagram, I don`t know the year. I saw it in the 70`s and used it on my mission in the 80`s. It takes an incredibly powerful doctrine and tries to make it understandable. I find problems with it, but had some positive experiences wih people learning from the diagram. It works the best when there are scriptures with it. I think some would say it's "official" because it is published in church manuals and, as I mentioned above, in the missionary lessons. Aaronic PH Manual: https://www.lds.org/bc/content/shared/content/images/gospel-library/manual/34822/34822_000_002-01-salvation.pdf Preach My Gospel (newer style but essentially same): https://www.lds.org/bc/content/shared/content/images/gospel-library/manual/36617/000_preach-my-gospel_1207575_prt.pdf
Rivers Posted May 18, 2014 Posted May 18, 2014 Since it is not an official diagram, I don`t know the year. I saw it in the 70`s and used it on my mission in the 80`s. It takes an incredibly powerful doctrine and tries to make it understandable. I find problems with it, but had some positive experiences wih people learning from the diagram. It works the best when there are scriptures with it.Yeah. Those diagrams ceraintly don't do the plan of salvatoin full justice.
JDave Posted May 19, 2014 Posted May 19, 2014 While I have put the diagram to good use, it is disturbing that you can explain so much of The Plan without saying a word about Jesus Christ. 2
Tiki Posted May 20, 2014 Posted May 20, 2014 While I have put the diagram to good use, it is disturbing that you can explain so much of The Plan without saying a word about Jesus Christ.That's because we hold His name in reverence.His name isn't mentioned in The Book of Mormon until 2 Nephi 10, and you can learn a lot about the plan of happiness before then.
JDave Posted May 20, 2014 Posted May 20, 2014 That's because we hold His name in reverence. His name isn't mentioned in The Book of Mormon until 2 Nephi 10, and you can learn a lot about the plan of happiness before then.I meant without even a mention of a Redeemer. You can explain the entire diagram without mentioning faith, repentance, baptism, or the role of our Savior. Also, a great deal of what we learn in the Book of Mormon, even prior to 2 Nephi 10, centers on the Messiah. It has nothing to do with holding His name in reverence. Have you ever been told to explain the Plan of Salvation without invoking the name of Jesus Christ? Or to even limit the number of times you use the name of Jesus Christ while explaining the Plan of Salvation?
Tiki Posted May 20, 2014 Posted May 20, 2014 I meant without even a mention of a Redeemer. You can explain the entire diagram without mentioning faith, repentance, baptism, or the role of our Savior. Also, a great deal of what we learn in the Book of Mormon, even prior to 2 Nephi 10, centers on the Messiah.It has nothing to do with holding His name in reverence. Have you ever been told to explain the Plan of Salvation without invoking the name of Jesus Christ? Or to even limit the number of times you use the name of Jesus Christ while explaining the Plan of Salvation?No. But you can mention a lot of things about the Gospel without mentioning a Redeemer, or the basic priciples of the gospel, but they're implied. It depends on your audience and their knowledge of such things. So why is it a concern? It doesn't need to be.Elder L. Tom Perry of the Quorum of The Twelve mentioned that after his mission he got the idea to use flannel-backed financial statements when presenting financial pro-forma reports to his employers, who were impressed by his creativity, long before powerpoint and similar graphical software. So your hunt for the diagram was in existence then. I recall stake missionares using portable rolled up flannel boards with metal wire stands, for such things.
Garden Girl Posted May 20, 2014 Posted May 20, 2014 I meant without even a mention of a Redeemer. You can explain the entire diagram without mentioning faith, repentance, baptism, or the role of our Savior. Also, a great deal of what we learn in the Book of Mormon, even prior to 2 Nephi 10, centers on the Messiah. Hello JDave...Sorry, I simply don't agree with you... in the diagram the degrees of glory are shown, and our assignment to a specific degree depends entirely on how we lived our life, our faith in Christ, our repentence, our being baptized, etc. Section 76 of the D&C clearly delineates who will inherit each degree of glory and the conditions they must meet for each... i.e., in regard to Celestial glory... v. 50 - 70... "These are they who received the testimony of Jesus, and believed on his name and were baptized after the manner of his burial in the water in his name... And who overcome by faith... These are they who are just men made perfect through Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, who wrought out this perfect atonement through the shedding of his own blood.... These are they whose bodies are celestial, whose glory is that of the sun..." Similarly, each degree of glory describes who inherits that particular glory (v. 71-80 terrestrial... v. 81-113 telestial). There is no way you can "explain the entire diagram" without explaining who inherits each degree of glory, as contained in Sec 76. GG
JAHS Posted May 20, 2014 Posted May 20, 2014 (edited) Does anyone know when the plan of salvation diagram became part of our standard explanation of the life of the soul? Mid-1950s? Earlier? Thanks!MnGI don't think there is a way to pinpoint the exact moment such a diagram existed. I am sure people were drawing it on a piece of paper ever since it was understood from the scriptures from the early days of the church. I know missionaries were using it as early as the early 50s when teaching investigators about the plan of salvation. The first set of discussions used by missionaries to teach investigators starting in 1952 was "A Systematic Program for Teaching the Gospel" It had the following diagram in the Plan of Salvation chapter; This was followed in 1961 by "A Uniform System for Teaching Investigators" (I used this on my mission) which also had the familiar diagram. Edited May 20, 2014 by JAHS 1
JDave Posted May 20, 2014 Posted May 20, 2014 Hello JDave...Sorry, I simply don't agree with you... in the diagram the degrees of glory are shown, and our assignment to a specific degree depends entirely on how we lived our life, our faith in Christ, our repentence, our being baptized, etc. Section 76 of the D&C clearly delineates who will inherit each degree of glory and the conditions they must meet for each... i.e., in regard to Celestial glory... v. 50 - 70... "These are they who received the testimony of Jesus, and believed on his name and were baptized after the manner of his burial in the water in his name... And who overcome by faith... These are they who are just men made perfect through Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, who wrought out this perfect atonement through the shedding of his own blood.... These are they whose bodies are celestial, whose glory is that of the sun..." Similarly, each degree of glory describes who inherits that particular glory (v. 71-80 terrestrial... v. 81-113 telestial). There is no way you can "explain the entire diagram" without explaining who inherits each degree of glory, as contained in Sec 76. GGGardenGirl, I completely agree that one should include Jesus Christ, but I have even heard that part explained as "those who are the most righteous will be assigned to the Celestial Kingdom at the Judgment". I don't want to come off as being "against" the diagram per se -- I just want to point out that care should be taken to explain it well. Scriptures and the Gospel of Jesus Christ should play prominent parts in the explanation.
JDave Posted May 20, 2014 Posted May 20, 2014 No. But you can mention a lot of things about the Gospel without mentioning a Redeemer, or the basic priciples of the gospel, but they're implied. It depends on your audience and their knowledge of such things. So why is it a concern? It doesn't need to be.Describing the entire plan of salvation without mentioning a Redeemer just seems ... wrong.
mercyngrace Posted May 20, 2014 Author Posted May 20, 2014 I don't think there is a way to pinpoint the exact moment such a diagram existed. I am sure people were drawing it on a piece of paper ever since it was understood from the scriptures from the early days of the church. I know missionaries were using it as early as the early 50s when teaching investigators about the plan of salvation. The first set of discussions used by missionaries to teach investigators starting in 1952 was "A Systematic Program for Teaching the Gospel" It had the following diagram in the Plan of Salvation chapter; This was followed in 1961 by "A Uniform System for Teaching Investigators" (I used this on my mission) which also had the familiar diagram. Thanks JAHS!
cdowis Posted May 20, 2014 Posted May 20, 2014 (edited) Describing the entire plan of salvation without mentioning a Redeemer just seems ... wrong. OK, so let's see your diagram. Be sure to include the Fall of Adam as well and how Christ overcame both spiritual and physical death (you need to include baptism and repentance in the diagram). It would be nice to include the Council in Heaven.... Edited May 20, 2014 by cdowis
cdowis Posted May 20, 2014 Posted May 20, 2014 For me, this whole diagram came from our lessons in the pre-existence. When I first attended a missionary lesson, it was on the Plan of Salvation and I immediately recognized it. Didn't know when I was taught that -- certainly not in my church, but it was very familiar.
JDave Posted May 20, 2014 Posted May 20, 2014 OK, so let's see your diagram. I've seen some with a big picture of Christ on them, or even just a watermark of Christ behind the whole thing. Works for me. It reminds people that Christ is kind of a big deal at the pre-mortal existence, and the Fall, and our mortal existence, and the spirit world, and the resurrection, and the Judgment...
Garden Girl Posted May 20, 2014 Posted May 20, 2014 GardenGirl, I completely agree that one should include Jesus Christ, but I have even heard that part explained as "those who are the most righteous will be assigned to the Celestial Kingdom at the Judgment". I don't want to come off as being "against" the diagram per se -- I just want to point out that care should be taken to explain it well. Scriptures and the Gospel of Jesus Christ should play prominent parts in the explanation. You are right JDave... and if proper care is taken to "explain it well," the explanation will include the Gospel of Jesus Christ and the Savior's role in the Plan... GG
Calm Posted May 20, 2014 Posted May 20, 2014 I like the watermark idea.Granted it may be descriptive (you started here, went here and may end up there) to explain without Christ but defeats the purpose IMO because it robs the Plan of its actual meaning and how it actually works. 1
Se7en10 Posted May 22, 2014 Posted May 22, 2014 I meant without even a mention of a Redeemer. You can explain the entire diagram without mentioning faith, repentance, baptism, or the role of our Savior. Also, a great deal of what we learn in the Book of Mormon, even prior to 2 Nephi 10, centers on the Messiah.It has nothing to do with holding His name in reverence. Have you ever been told to explain the Plan of Salvation without invoking the name of Jesus Christ? Or to even limit the number of times you use the name of Jesus Christ while explaining the Plan of Salvation?Preach my Gospel Lesson 2 on the Plan of Salvation. Every Principle taught mentions Christ, and the necessity of His gospel being faith, repentance, baptism, etc. "Pre-Earth Life:Jesus Christ is central to God’s plan. Through His Atonement, Jesus Christ fulfilled His Father’s purpose and made it possible for each of us to enjoy immortality and eternal life. Satan, or the devil, is an enemy to God’s plan. The Creation:Under the direction of the Father, Jesus Christ created the earth as a place for us to live and gain experience. In order to progress and become like God, each of us had to obtain a body and be tested during a time of probation on the earth. While on the earth we are out of God’s physical presence. We do not remember our pre-Earth life. We must walk by faith rather than by sight. Agency and the Fall of Adam and Eve: (Not as clear, but defines the principle of choosing Christ over Satan to return to God) They had moral agency or the ability to choose between good and evil. This made it possible for them to learn and progress. It also made it possible for them to make wrong choices and to sin. In addition, they could now have children, so the rest of God’s spirit children could come to earth, obtain physical bodies, and be tested. Only in this way could God’s children progress and become like Him. Our Life on Earth: If not for the Savior Jesus Christ, death would end all hope for a future existence with Heavenly Father.Because of our sins, we are unable to return to live with Heavenly Father unless we are first forgiven and cleansed. As with physical death, we cannot overcome the effects of sin by ourselves. We are helpless without the Atonement of Jesus Christ. The Atonement:Nuff said. The Spirit World:Those who chose to obey God in this life live in a state of happiness, peace, and rest from troubles and care. Those who chose not to obey in this life and did not repent live in a state of unhappiness. In the spirit world the gospel is preached to those who did not obey the gospel or have the opportunity to hear it while on earth. We remain in the spirit world until we are resurrected. The Resurrection, Judgement, and Immortality: Eternal life is a gift of God given only to those who obey His gospel. It is the highest state that we can achieve. It comes to those who are freed from sin and suffering through the Atonement of Christ. It is exaltation, which means living with God forever in eternal families. It is to know God and Jesus Christ and to experience the life they enjoy. Kingdoms of Glory:Those who have repented of their sins and received the ordinances of the gospel and kept the associated covenants will be cleansed by the Atonement of Christ. They will receive exaltation in the highest kingdom, also known as the celestial kingdom. They will live in God’s presence, become like Him, and receive a fulness of joy. They will live together for eternity with those of their family who qualify. In the scriptures this kingdom is compared to the glory or brightness of the sun.People who do not accept the fulness of the gospel of Jesus Christ but live honorable lives will receive a place in the terrestrial kingdom. This kingdom is compared to the glory of the moon.Those who continued in their sins and did not repent in this life will receive their reward in the lowest kingdom, which is called the telestial kingdom. This kingdom is compared to the glory of the stars.
Se7en10 Posted May 22, 2014 Posted May 22, 2014 Without teaching of Christ in any one of those principles you are missing the necessary doctrine to explain it clearly/to the proper extent. Not that every little doctrine/deep doctrine point needs to be covered, but PMG points out the principles that should be taught when helping others to understand God's plan. 1
Rob Osborn Posted May 22, 2014 Posted May 22, 2014 The scriptures are plain that everyone who wants salvation- to be saved eternally from hell, must repent of all sins and be washed in the waters of baptism becoming a son or daughter of God. And then you have our plan of salvation which we have interpreted in latter day which says in part that this is not the case. Our plan of salvation with the three worlds of glory has a lot of problems with it as is currently taught.
cdowis Posted May 22, 2014 Posted May 22, 2014 I've seen some with a big picture of Christ on them, or even just a watermark of Christ behind the whole thing. Works for me. It reminds people that Christ is kind of a big deal at the pre-mortal existence, and the Fall, and our mortal existence, and the spirit world, and the resurrection, and the Judgment... Great idea. Puts Christ into the picture.
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