Miracles/evidence Of The Divine

[knowone]

 

 

i have a few, most on the darker side.  most are complicated, ive been thinking about ways to actually put them down on paper one day.  havent figured it out yet.  an easy one to explain is thus:

 

on my mission in ecuador, we had a baptism of a big family.  they were all jehovahs witnesses & we found them tracting just like we were!  to make a long story short, all 7 of them were getting baptized.  we went out of our way, spending our own little money to make punch & treats, made a themed ceremony leaflet, etc, etc.  the time came when we got to the chapel, unlocked the door & started to run the water.  after about 5 minutes the power cut out for the whole section of the city we were in.  we started stressing.  as my comp was talking with some members about options, etc i went to the bathroom, got on my knees & prayed the most intense prayer i had ever made.  intense because it was also fast.  i walked back out to where the pump was besides the building with the cistern & it started to work.  let me repeat...the lights were not functioning in the chapel or at any of the stores or peoples houses around us...yet the pump by itself was pumping the water.  !!!!!!!

 

i simply watched & looked around.  i didnt want to mess anything up so i just went back into the chapel & told my comp 'its working' & explained later.

Edited June 4, 2014 by knowone

[Tacenda]

i have a few, most on the darker side. most are complicated, ive been thinking about ways to actually put them down on paper one day. havent figured it out yet. an easy one to explain is thus:

on my mission in ecuador, we had a baptism of a big family. they were all jehovahs witnesses & we found them tracting just like we were! to make a long story short, all 7 of them were getting baptized. we went out of our way, spending our own little money to make punch & treats, made a themed ceremony leaflet, etc, etc. the time came when we got to the chapel, unlocked the door & started to run the water. after about 5 minutes the power cut out for the whole section of the city we were in. we started stressing. as my comp was talking with some members about options, etc i went to the bathroom, got on my knees & prayed the most intense prayer i had ever made. intense because it was also fast. i walked back out to where the pump was besides the building with the cistern & it started to work. let me repeat...the lights were not functioning in the chapel or at any of the stores or peoples houses around us...yet the pump by itself was pumping the water. !!!!!!!

i simply watched & looked around. i didnt want to mess anything up so i just went back into the chapel & told my comp 'its working' & explained later.

Did the church have a back up generater? Just wanted to verify in case you left out that it didn't.

[johnNewingtonn]

Duncan, Thank You for sharing this moving experience of having doubts and the wondrous means of receiving an answer. Coming from a Missionary of the LDS Church, it's especially powerful and reassuring.

[Kenngo1969]

Here are a few:

 

http://greatgourdini.wordpress.com/2014/06/01/gods-army-and-my-own-mission/

 

http://www.greatgourdini.wordpress.com/2013/07/09/maintaining-hope-against-all-odds/

 

https://www.lds.org/new-era/1993/02/we-did-it?lang=eng

 

Edited June 5, 2014 by Kenngo1969

[Kenngo1969]

Did the church have a back up generater? Just wanted to verify in case you left out that it didn't.

In the third world?  Just a hunch, but you haven't spent much time there, have you?  My guesses are: (1) no, the church didn't have a back-up generator; and (2) no, you haven't spent much time in the third world.  Thanks fer playin', Hon!

[Avatar4321]

what???!!!! oh man! Was Steven E. Snow your mission president? I recall catching two of your sisters in our area once, and we asked them if they were lost and they said they were looking for the Burbank Airport, and we were like well, the Burbank Airport isn't going to be found tracting around here! oh well! I think I stole a baptism from another mission as well! I have some other stories of that mission as well, all good though!! I never served in Arcadia though, which was fine by me as one of the wards was where the MP was!

No. I had President Pearson. Basically Arcadia had the English speaking ward in the area, and we had a Spanish speaking ward that crossed into their area. So we actually overlapped alittle.

[Avatar4321]

I had an interesting story. I am in the process of trying to start up my own business. I had been thinking earlier this week that it's a shame a friend of mine I grew up with is out in Utah or I could ask his accounting advice. Out of the blue yesterday he adds me to facebook and lets me know he is in the area. Coincidence? Maybe. but i think providence has more of a hand in it than randomness.

[Kenngo1969]

I had an interesting story. I am in the process of trying to start up my own business. I had been thinking earlier this week that it's a shame a friend of mine I grew up with is out in Utah or I could ask his accounting advice. Out of the blue yesterday he adds me to facebook and lets me know he is in the area. Coincidence? Maybe. but i think providence has more of a hand in it than randomness.

I quite agree.  I'm reminded of something President Spencer W. Kimball once said:

 

The Lord does notice us, and he watches over us. But it is usually through another person that he meets our needs. Therefore, it is vital that we serve each other. 

 

Source (last accessed today): https://www.lds.org/new-era/1981/03/president-kimball-speaks-out-on-service-to-others?lang=eng

[Tacenda]

In the third world? Just a hunch, but you haven't spent much time there, have you? My guesses are: (1) no, the church didn't have a back-up generator; and (2) no, you haven't spent much time in the third world. Thanks fer playin', Hon!

My guess also is you're right, unless you count a cruise to a couple of countries like Jamaica and Mexico.

It was pretty bad that I brought it up, and really low. My lack of faith in miracles came through, but I've not always been this way.

I guess the thought of the Lord helping the elders baptize all those people got in the way of my struggle to believe.

[Walden]

My guess also is you're right, unless you count a cruise to a couple of countries like Jamaica and Mexico.

It was pretty bad that I brought it up, and really low. My lack of faith in miracles came through, but I've not always been this way.

I guess the thought of the Lord helping the elders baptize all those people got in the way of my struggle to believe.

 

My lack of faith in miracles is driven not by their illogical or reason-defying nature, but rather by the illogical and reason-defying nature of their application. Case in point: God will provide power to pump water for a baptism (per the above story), yet how many tragedies occur every single day in which God could have easily intervened and remedied the situation. I mean, if he can remedy lost power to a well pump for a baptism, certainly he can help hundreds of families obtain closure for their on-going nightmare by giving those searchers for the missing Malaysian flight a hint on it's location, no?

 

This isn't an appropriate comment for Social Hall. Stick closely to the OP and keep debate to other folders.

[bluebell]

My lack of faith in miracles is driven not by their illogical or reason-defying nature, but rather by the illogical and reason-defying nature of their application. Case in point: God will provide power to pump water for a baptism (per the above story), yet how many tragedies occur every single day in which God could have easily intervened and remedied the situation. I mean, if he can remedy lost power to a well pump for a baptism, certainly he can help hundreds of families obtain closure for their on-going nightmare by giving those searchers for the missing Malaysian flight a hint on it's location, no?

 

People who believe in God, and in miracles, do not believe that God will produce a miracle every time someone asks, or every time there is an opportunity to respond.

 

That's not a sign of illogical or reason-defying application.  It's a sign of having an understanding of God, and how He should act, that is much different than yours. 

 

But let's remember that this thread is not about proving that miracles exist, or about arguing that they don't.  Those topics belong in the other forum.  

[Avatar4321]

God intervening to do His work doesn't seem at all illogical to me.

[Judd]

My guess also is you're right, unless you count a cruise to a couple of countries like Jamaica and Mexico.

It was pretty bad that I brought it up, and really low. My lack of faith in miracles came through, but I've not always been this way.

I guess the thought of the Lord helping the elders baptize all those people got in the way of my struggle to believe.

I think we have a tendency to evaluate 'miracles' or answers and give them credibility based on how well they can or cannot be explained. Now, I realize that, among the definitions or miracle, one would include it being unexplainable. In our understanding, a generator isn't impressive as an explanation because we understand it and it's simple. It's interesting because on one hand we expect that if God did something then it should be empirically observable and explained by man's understanding, but on the other hand if we can point to an explanation then that explanation therefore calls into question 'divine intervention' (for lack of a better term). The more important question is if God heard and answered a prayer. Sending one of the 3 Nephites in a pillar of fire may be more awesome and theatrical (not implying that's what anyone is asking for), but would it change the underlying purpose accomplished? There are many miracles that we don't perceive because we're looking for the pillar of fire. I believe most miracles are often neglected and sometimes imperceivable, though have more far-reaching influence than the shock and mystery of unexplained phenomena.

[johnNewingtonn]

Ken, I was almost 'done' here except I needed to tell You: there's no 'like' button, but wanted to let you know  - Thanks, the inks, the blog, if there was any reason to come here, finding that, and the realization that I was even looking for that, is it.  ->Thank You -All- <-., In my yacht club we have "Past Commodores" those who were Commodores, but 'Past' doesn't mean past-tense, it means 'beyond' - they offer sage advice, are members of the execute council, their experience and wisdom is valued and actively sought, I think the missionaries I've read posting here are the same. The posts made in idle conversation carry wisdom and insights that, without intention, still serve others and give direction.  For me here, every word seen here and every reply received, has been an inspiration. so that completes my time here, Thank You,  (no need to reply), the rest is silence.

[knowone]

Did the church have a back up generater? Just wanted to verify in case you left out that it didn't.

 

no, not at all.  totally dependent on the sketchy grid.

[knowone]

My lack of faith in miracles is driven not by their illogical or reason-defying nature, but rather by the illogical and reason-defying nature of their application. Case in point: God will provide power to pump water for a baptism (per the above story), yet how many tragedies occur every single day in which God could have easily intervened and remedied the situation. I mean, if he can remedy lost power to a well pump for a baptism, certainly he can help hundreds of families obtain closure for their on-going nightmare by giving those searchers for the missing Malaysian flight a hint on it's location, no?

 

This isn't an appropriate comment for Social Hall. Stick closely to the OP and keep debate to other folders.

 

i look at it like this.  God being divine, there is nothing really right or wrong to Him...for us yes, but to the Allmighty...no, not really.  trajedies dont exist to Him either.  thats your first mistake in understanding the divine. 

 

why did (i believe) a miracle happen for me & not all the many other people in the world that needed help more constructively (according to you) than water in a baptisimal font? 

 

theres a 1000 different ways i can explain it....but my favorite is this.  what if every person on this planet ever born into their own dimension.  & what if everything going on in ones particular dimension is all aimed at testing ones agency?  in the story i posted above, i was at the water pump & it broke...i felt the still small voice whisper to me.  against everything i could have done, i sought out a sacred grove, i bent my head in humility & with a righteous desire, i simply asked the Lord for help.  the faith was such, that everyone was blessed.

 

if there are people starving in africa, how am i able to change that if im on a mission in ecuador preparing for a baptism?  in that moment, the only thing i had control over was that baptism of that simple person in that no name town. 

 

in that moment, for me, there could have been any higher miracle than what i witnessed.

[TJane]

And He's often liked that, once while praying, I got the distinct impression that the answer from the Spirit was chuckling. I asked if He was laughing at me. He said He'd never laugh at His daughter. Over time I saw that chuckle as enjoyment in an earnest, possibly over-earnest, daughter working her way through challenges...

I'm back after a long absence and had to reply to this: I, too, have had this experience of hearing spiritual chuckles. Two come to mind.

When I decided, while still in college, to go through the temple on my own, I thought that I should really find out if the Church was true for sure, since I didn't want to go back on any covenants I would be making. So I fasted one Sunday, and knelt down to ask if the Church was true. Immediately I could feel a spiritual chuckle, and an almost audible voice telling me, "You don't have to ask - I've already told you in so many little ways. I know you know ... And so do you."

The other time was when my husband was applying to graduate schools. He applied to eight programs, but he really wanted to get into Cal Tech. The week before we knew they were deciding on who to accept, I decided to fast every day for five days (but not nights) so that he would get into the program he wanted. The morning of the day he was to get the call, I had to know so I prayed "will he get into Cal Tech?" And got an immediate "No!" I was devastated, and angrily replied that I had fasted for FIVE days!! Nothing.

I went to work without telling my husband. I got a call from him that afternoon: a letter from Stanford had come, offering a scholarship and teaching assistant-ship. And I again heard The Lord chuckling "You have faith enough to fast for five days. But not enough faith to know that I might have something better planned for your family." Of all the schools to whom my husband applied, only one did NOT accept him: Cal Tech. We went to Stanford, CA.

The rest of that story is that when we went to the town ward where we were assigned to go, I ran into an old college friend who had moved there recently with her family. She was pregnant with three small kids, lonely and had been praying for a friend. She still tells me that she's the reason Heavenly Father didn't let my husband go to Cal Tech.

Edited June 22, 2014 by TJane

[Avatar4321]

I'm back after a long absence and had to reply to this: I, too, have had this experience of hearing spiritual chuckles. Two come to mind.

When I decided, while still in college, to go through the temple on my own, I thought that I should really find out if the Church was true for sure, since I didn't want to go back on any covenants I would be making. So I fasted one Sunday, and knelt down to ask if the Church was true. Immediately I could feel a spiritual chuckle, and an almost audible voice telling me, "You don't have to ask - I've already told you in so many little ways. I know you know ... And so do you."

The other time was when my husband was applying to graduate schools. He applied to eight programs, but he really wanted to get into Cal Tech. The week before we knew they were deciding on who to accept, I decided to fast every day for five days (but not nights) so that he would get into the program he wanted. The morning of the day he was to get the call, I had to know so I prayed "will he get into Cal Tech?" And got an immediate "No!" I was devastated, and angrily replied that I had fasted for FIVE days!! Nothing.

I went to work without telling my husband. I got a call from him that afternoon: a letter from Stanford had come, offering a scholarship and teaching assistant-ship. And I again heard The Lord chuckling "You have faith enough to fast for five days. But not enough faith to know that I might have something better planned for your family." Of all the schools to whom my husband applied, only one did NOT accept him: Cal Tech. We went to Stanford, CA.

The rest of that story is that when we went to the town ward where we were assigned to go, I ran into an old college friend who had moved there recently with her family. She was pregnant with three small kids, lonely and had been praying for a friend. She still tells me that she's the reason Heavenly Father didn't let my husband go to Cal Tech.

 

Someday I hope I hear the Spirit as clearly as you clearly do lol