Glenn Beck's Shockingly Absurd Retelling Of Polygamy History...

[thesometimesaint]

I've read through this thread and am somewhat surprised at the "nastiness," as one poster called it, by which posters refer to Mr. Beck.  I've listened to him on occasion, enough to know I don't agree with everything he says but some things I do agree with (yes TSS, I listen occasionally) though I do not class myself as a real "fan" so to speak.  But I know he's a good man and his testimony is quite moving... I suggested in an earlier post that some of you might want to visit his website and leave a message as to his mistake regarding polygamy... it would be doing him a service and save him from publicly making the  same mistake in the future.  If you're all so charitable, do that...  

Incidentally, I too remember the "not enough men" teaching... and as Canard78 pointed out, he recently heard a  branch pres teach this in a packed 5th Sunday lesson... so maybe the branch pres should do more research also... and the many others who probably still accept the teaching...

 

GG

 

I used to listen occasionally. But not for the same reason. Keep your friends close and your enemies closer. If for no other reason than to know where they are, so you can avoid them.

 

I've heard that rationale too. It just didn't make much sense to me. Especially in the light of D&C 132. But I'm fine if someone else wants to believe it.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

I dunno why he didn't take this subject a bit more serious across the whole program. To me it seems, that he was trying to make light of it a bit. Normally he is a bit more serious when he takes subjects on. I think he may be a bit uncomfortable about it. And there are some legitimate criticisms on this program as this is not one of the better programs I have seen.

 

With regards to the Mormon Extermination order, the LDS were the only people to have an extermination order carried out on them. The Trail of Tears and slavery were bad (excuse me if I don't use stronger language here)but it was not an extermination order.

 

Any way carry on the gleeful hate fest that some of you have against Glenn. I am some what ashamed of this board.

[thesometimesaint]

I think you've gone over the top with this. The advantages of anonymity.

 

Who isn't aware that Mark Twain was just the pen-name of Samuel Clemens?

[Walden]

I dunno why he didn't take this subject a bit more serious across the whole program. To me it seems, that he was trying to make light of it a bit. Normally he is a bit more serious when he takes subjects on. I think he may be a bit uncomfortable about it. And there are some legitimate criticisms on this program as this is not one of the better programs I have seen.

 

With regards to the Mormon Extermination order, the LDS were the only people to have an extermination order carried out on them. The Trail of Tears and slavery were bad (excuse me if I don't use stronger language here)but it was not an extermination order.

 

Any way carry on the gleeful hate fest that some of you have against Glenn. I am some what ashamed of this board.

 

I think that "hate fest" is a bit much with regards to views of Glenn Beck, though I didn't read every post on this topic.

 

I just find it comical that one looks to Beck for "truth" on anything, yet would argue vehemently if someone were to come here espousing the truthfulness of the Rev. Al Sharpton.....both men are paid provocateurs for their respective political spectrums, and both would be anonymous, and much more poor, if not for their outlandish takes on facts and twisting of truth. When it comes to distorting "truth" for money, I equally disdain both those on the right and the left, so my distaste for Beck is the same as my distaste for Sharpton.

[BookofMormonLuvr]

For the record:

If you haven't noticed, I haven't said anything personally negative concerning Glenn. I generally enjoy listening to him. I only thought that the absurdity of this particular feature on his show was worth noting.

[wenglund]

Me thinks thou doth protest too much...

 

As the originator of this thread, this comment is irony rich, and deserving of some kind of award.

 

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[BookofMormonLuvr]

As the originator of this thread, this comment is irony rich, and deserving of some kind of award.

 

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

 

As evidenced by the scorn heaped upon him by your fellow LDS posters and not myself, I would beg to differ Bro. Wade.

I understand your and Pahoran's clinging tenaciously to the "Apostate Exposer's Guild"- but you really need to let it go. It is a new, bright day where the "Josephites" and "Brighamites" can fellowship together in joy, sharing in our common focus of Jesus, the Book of Mormon, and Zion.

"Let It Go" brother...  (virtual hug)

[wenglund]

Given all the sweeping dismissals and condemnations of the Glenn Beck segment posted in the OP, I thought it would only be fair to work through it point by point and let people demonstrate the supposed absurdity, hopefully keeping in mind the important difference between opinion and fact:

 

Point #1: The "media" wishes Americans to believe that anyone who believes what Glenn Beck believes (i.e. Mormonisms), is the same as Warren Jeffs.

 

Could you please explain what you think is so absurd and supposedly factually incorrect about this point.

 

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Edited April 21, 2014 by wenglund

[wenglund]

As evidenced by the scorn heaped upon him by your fellow LDS posters and not myself....

 

No, as evinced by the highly protesting title of the thread and the first line of the OP.

 

Please take something for your selective myopia and irony deficiency, it is causing you to be blind to self-possessed beams in your quest to remove motes from others--speaking of needing to let go.

 

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Edited April 21, 2014 by wenglund

[BookofMormonLuvr]

Given all the sweeping dismissals and condemnations of the Glenn Beck segment posted in the OP, I thought it would only be fair to work through it point by point and let people demonstrate the supposed absurdity, hopefully keeping in mind the important difference between opinion and fact:]

 

Point #1: The "media" wishes Americans to believe that anyone who believes what Glenn Beck believes (i.e. Mormonisms), is the same as Warren Jeffs.

 

Could you please explain what you think is so absurd and supposedly factually incorrect about this point.

 

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Could you give some examples where the media has tried to infer "all Mormons are like Warren Jeffs"?

I think most of the media has done a decent job of respecting the LDS churches request to differentiate between the modern LDS church and polygamists.

I think this paranoia.

[BookofMormonLuvr]

No, as evinced by the highly protesting title of the thread and the first line of the OP.

 

Please take something for you selective myopia and irony deficiency, it is causing you to be blind to self-possessed beams in your quest to remove motes from others--speaking of needing to let go.

 

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

 

Pahoran, not I, brought up church issues. Your blind hatred for apostates has driven you towards unreasonableness.

[thesometimesaint]

Given all the sweeping dismissals and condemnations of the Glenn Beck segment posted in the OP, I thought it would only be fair to work through it point by point and let people demonstrate the supposed absurdity, hopefully keeping in mind the important difference between opinion and fact:]

 

Point #1: The "media" wishes Americans to believe that anyone who believes what Glenn Beck believes (i.e. Mormonisms), is the same as Warren Jeffs.

 

Could you please explain what you think is so absurd and supposedly factually incorrect about this point.

 

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

 

For better or worse Glenn Beck has become the face of Mormonism for non LDS people. AND for better or worse polygamy has long been the part, lots of times it is the only part) of Mormonism the non LDS public knows about.

[wenglund]

Could you give some examples where the media has tried to infer "all Mormons are like Warren Jeffs"?

I think most of the media has done a decent job of respecting the LDS churches request to differentiate between the modern LDS church and polygamists.

I think this paranoia.

 

Nice, but failed attempt to shift the burden of proof. You are the one claiming it is absurd. Please back up your claim if you can.

 

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[BookofMormonLuvr]

Nice, but failed attempt to shift the burden of proof. You are the one claiming it is absurd. Please back up your claim if you can.

 

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

No, my good man, Glenn made the claim, you apparently agree.... so some examples would be nice.

[wenglund]

Pahoran, not I, brought up church issues. Your blind hatred for apostates has driven you towards unreasonableness.

 

YOU, and not Pahoran, started this highly protesting thread, and titled it in the highly protesting way as YOU chose, and characterized the Beck segment using YOUR highly protesting choice of words. These are points of fact that have absolutely nothing to do with the myth of my blind hatred for apostates or unreasonableness. Sorry, but your unwarranted attempt to deflect failed as miserably as your sense of irony and capacity for self reflection.

 

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[wenglund]

No, my good man, Glenn made the claim, you apparently agree.... so some examples would be nice.

 

Sorry my pathologically deflective and mis-assuming friend (I haven't apparently, or otherwise, agreed or disagreed). Glenn isn't a participant on this board. He didn't post this thread. He didn't make the claims posited in the title of the thread and the OP. YOU did. Please fulfill your due responsibility and back up YOUR highly protesting claims and criticisms if you can.

 

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Edited April 21, 2014 by wenglund

[T-Shirt]

Lack of men as the reason for polygamy was also routinely taught in Northern California when I was growing up as well. "God's divine plan to make sure all widows had a husband to support them."

I call,  BS.  This "doctrine" was not routinely taught anywhere.  It was, at best, a folk doctrine passed around by nineteen year-old missionaries and occasionally by some misinformed teachers whose only source was a nineteen year-old missionary.  It has never been a topic in any lesson curriculum in the Church and the only reason it ever got brought up is if someone asked a question about polygamy.  I have been a member for nearly 56 years and the only time I heard this was form other missionaries during my mission.  I never heard it in a Sunday School lesson, a priesthood lesson, a seminary lesson or in a talk.  I did hear it from several people outside of the classroom, but it was just something they had heard from someone else.  I taught seminary for several years and there was never anything in the curriculum that prompted a discussion of polygamy and certainly no hint of anything that even remotely hinted at such an explanation.  Most of my seminary kids knew nothing of polygamy.  In fact some of the girls had heard of it from someone and were concerned, so they asked me about, so we took a whole class period to discuss it.  The shortage of men excuse was never mentioned

Edited April 21, 2014 by T-Shirt

[BookofMormonLuvr]

Sorry my pathologically deflective friend. Glenn isn't a participant on this board. He didn't post this thread. He didn't make the claims posited in the title of the thread and the OP. YOU did. Please fulfill your due responsibility and back up YOUR highly protesting claims and criticisms if you can.

 

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Take a breath, Wade.

What I described as absurd is Glenn's portrayal of the history of polygamy, even by modern LDS standards. His paranoia concerning a media campaign to make out all Mormons into FLDS is beside the point.

So if you want to talk about the absurdities of his version of polygamy history, we can.

And, yes, your feelings towards me as an apostate are coloring you demeanor towards me in the whole conversation.

Edited April 21, 2014 by BookofMormonLuvr

[SeekingUnderstanding]

Given all the sweeping dismissals and condemnations of the Glenn Beck segment posted in the OP, I thought it would only be fair to work through it point by point and let people demonstrate the supposed absurdity, hopefully keeping in mind the important difference between opinion and fact:

 

Point #1: The "media" wishes Americans to believe that anyone who believes what Glenn Beck believes (i.e. Mormonisms), is the same as Warren Jeffs.

 

Could you please explain what you think is so absurd and supposedly factually incorrect about this point.

 

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Let's look at the most recent hits from google news on Warren Jeffs and see how many articles from the "media" paint mormons as the same as Jeffs:

http://www.cnn.com/2014/04/17/us/texas-yfz-ranch-seizure/

-Nope.

http://www.ctvnews.ca/world/polygamist-warren-jeffs-secluded-ranch-seized-by-texas-officials-1.1782002

The ranch was owned by his Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, a radical offshoot of mainstream Mormonism whose roughly 10,000 followers believe polygamy brings exaltation in heaven. They see Jeffs as God's spokesman on earth.

-Nope.

http://fox13now.com/2014/03/27/warren-jeffs-testifies-sort-of-in-flds-custody-battle/

-Nope

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2590852/Polygamist-sect-leader-Jeffs-hospital.html

Jeffs is the de facto prophet of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints

The FLDS church is an off-shoot of the main Mormon religion which abandoned the practice of polygamy in 1890

-Nope.

I haven't found a single article in the 20 or so I clicked on that portrays mormons as the equivalent of Jeffs. It's pretty hard to prove a negative.

Perhaps you could provide just one mainstream media article that does this? Pretty please?

Edited April 21, 2014 by SeekingUnderstanding

[HiJolly]

I call,  BS.  This "doctrine" was not routinely taught anywhere.  It was, at best, a folk doctrine passed around by nineteen year-old missionaries and occasionally by some misinformed teachers whose only source was a nineteen year-old missionary.  It has never been a topic in any lesson curriculum in the Church and the only reason it ever got brought up is if someone asked a question about polygamy.  I have been a member for nearly 56 years and the only time I heard this was form other missionaries during my mission.  I never heard it in a Sunday School lesson, a priesthood lesson, a seminary lesson or in a talk.  I did hear it from several people outside of the classroom, but it was just something they had heard from someone else.  I taught seminary for several years and there was never anything in the curriculum that prompted a discussion of polygamy and certainly no hint of anything that even remotely hinted at such an explanation.  Most of my seminary kids knew nothing of polygamy.  In fact some of the girls had heard of it from someone and were concerned, so they asked me about, so we took a whole class period to discuss it.  The shortage of men excuse was never mentioned

NOT BS. I also heard this explanation, both in Church meetings and from my own mother. Common, common, common. This was in Arizona.

[wenglund]

Take a breath, Wade.

What I described as absurd is Glenn's portrayal of the history of polygamy, even mb modern LDS standards. His paranoia concerning a media campaign to make all Mormon into FLDS is beside the point.

So if you want to talk about the absurdities of his version of polygamy history, we can.

And, yes, your feelings towards me as an apostate are coloring you demeanor towards me in the whole conversation.

 

First of all, and no offense intended to you personally, but I don't know you well enough nor am I acquainted enough with you to have kept track of your church standing. So, I wasn't mindful of or aware of your apostasy when I responded to this thread. It didn't cross my mind or my heart. And, so, it thus played entirely no part in my reasonable comments and queries, contrary to what you have repeatedly imagined.

 

Now, if you wish to amend the sweeping condemnations in your OP and title, and scale your claims way back to a single point or two, I am fine with that. Please specify exactly which historical claims made by Beck you consider as "shockingly absurd," and substantiate your claims. I am open to considering YOUR defense of YOUR position.

 

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Edited April 21, 2014 by wenglund

[Scott Lloyd]

Who isn't aware that Mark Twain was just the pen-name of Samuel Clemens?

Relevance?

 

Most people here who use screen names have secret IRL identities -- and I daresay most of them would prefer to keep it that way.

Edited April 21, 2014 by Scott Lloyd

[BookofMormonLuvr]

First of all, and no offense intended to you personally, but I don't know you well enough nor am I acquainted enough with you to have kept track of your church standing. So, I wasn't mindful of or aware of your apostasy when I responded to this thread. It didn't cross my mind or my heart. And, so, it thus played entirely no part in my reasonable comments and queries, contrary to what you have repeatedly imagined.

 

Now, if you wish to amend the sweeping condemnations in your OP and title, and scale your claims way back to a single point or two, I am fine with that. Please specify exactly which historical claims made by Beck you consider as "shockingly absurd," and substantiate you claims. I am open to considering YOUR defense of YOUR position.

 

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

And rehash what has already occupied 7 pages?

I will have to rewatch it, with stops, if you want a blow-by-blow. Unfortunately, that won't be soon as I have to take my wife someplace and I have errands to run. So you patience would be appreciated?

I am sure others will "help a brother out" and fill in the blanks for you- although it is rather strange that Wade Englund would not know of the inaccuracies in Glenn's report.

 

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

Given all the sweeping dismissals and condemnations of the Glenn Beck segment posted in the OP, I thought it would only be fair to work through it point by point and let people demonstrate the supposed absurdity, hopefully keeping in mind the important difference between opinion and fact:

 

Point #1: The "media" wishes Americans to believe that anyone who believes what Glenn Beck believes (i.e. Mormonisms), is the same as Warren Jeffs.

 

Could you please explain what you think is so absurd and supposedly factually incorrect about this point.

 

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Ill start. He did get Warren Jeff's name wrong. 

 

He did talk about how "one of" the reasons for polygamy was lack of men. I did hear this on my mission and was taught that this was one reason for it. Glenn joined the church around 2000 and I ended my mission in 1999. So it is not a stretch to think that it was still taught. It might even be taught now. I am not sure that this reason is invalid either. I know there are better reasons for the practice of polygamy and some have stated that this is folk doctrine which it is not official doctrine, that much I agree with.

 

Not sure about anything else being factually wrong. So if those are the only 2 things he got wrong. With regards to the first one it appears he is mocking, as his tone is silly. The 2nd issue could be chalked up to an honest mistake and I am not even sure it is a mistake. It just is not official doctrine.

 

Oh the horror. I see far worse on this board all the time.

Edited April 21, 2014 by Mola Ram Suda Ram

[Garden Girl]

For better or worse Glenn Beck has become the face of Mormonism for non LDS people. AND for better or worse polygamy has long been the part, lots of times it is the only part) of Mormonism the non LDS public knows about.

 

Hello TSS...

All the more reason it would be a charitable thing to contact Beck's website pointing out his misconception and providing factual LDS resources for legitimate information... I think the message would get to him, particularly if done in a reasonable tone as fellow members...

I feel the same way about the bwj thread about the missionary fireside where the story was told about the young missionary amputating his leg vs leaving his mission.... isn't this more absurd than the "not enough men" story?  And I think bwj should contact the fireside organizers and tell them that story should be stopped because of its implausibility based on common sense.

 

GG

Edited April 21, 2014 by Garden Girl