Elder Oaks And Ow

[ERMD]

Not much wiggle room there.

 

I don't think he could be any clearer.

[Bikeemikey]

Great talk. Far to dense for me to be able to digest and comment on it now.

The OW movement is certainly generating a response from the "brethren".

Edited April 6, 2014 by Bikeemikey

[JLHPROF]

Great talk. Far to dense for me to be able to digest and comment on it now.

The OW movement is certainly generating a response from the "brethren".

 

It would be more accurate to say the press they have managed to gain is generating a response.  The "Brethren" as you say probably wouldn't even acknowledge them if it weren't for the press.

[Kenngo1969]

The Brethren can't win: if they ignore Ordain Women, they're "tone deaf"; if some of the Brethren give some members of the group an audience and listen to their concerns, some see that as the first step to Ordain Women's stated goal; if the Brethren speak of women's current roles in the Church, that's seen by some as patronizing.  

[Blah]

The Brethren can't win: if they ignore Ordain Women, they're "tone deaf"; if some of the Brethren give some members of the group an audience and listen to their concerns, some see that as the first step to Ordain Women's stated goal; if the Brethren speak of women's current roles in the Church, that's seen by some as patronizing.

As my nephew would say, "Haters gonna hate."

[Calm]

It would be more accurate to say the press they have managed to gain is generating a response.  The "Brethren" as you say probably wouldn't even acknowledge them if it weren't for the press.

I find that an extremely sad and cynical view to believe that the Brethren wouldn't have the compassion to address an issue that was troubling so many members (not only those who are proordination but those who care enough to be involved in the conversation at all) and are only forced into the need to respond because of the notice of the press.

[Bikeemikey]

It would be more accurate to say the press they have managed to gain is generating a response. The "Brethren" as you say probably wouldn't even acknowledge them if it weren't for the press.

Sure... But that's a distinction with out meaning as the press couldn't make a big deal of them if the OW movement was doing what they were doing.

[Bikeemikey]

I find that an extremely sad and cynical view to believe that the Brethren wouldn't have the compassion to address an issue that was troubling so many members (not only those who are proordination but those who care enough to be involved in the conversation at all) and are only forced into the need to respond because of the notice of the press.

Agreed!

[barbarbar]

Not much wiggle room there.

I don't think he could be any clearer.

Oh there's always wiggle room. The church has an arsenal of "convenient" doctrines that allow it to bend to the trends of the world while still pleasing the faithful.

[The Nehor]

Elder Oaks saw a need for explanation and explained. If he said anything to OW it was a more kindly phrased version of President Uchtdorf's admonition to "Stop it."

[Wanderer7]

Oh there's always wiggle room. The church has an arsenal of "convenient" doctrines that allow it to bend to the trends of the world while still pleasing the faithful.

 

Yeah. Like no same-sex marriage, doing drugs or alcohol, premarital sex, dishonesty, or failing to pay tithing. Lots of wiggle room.

[The Nehor]

Oh there's always wiggle room. The church has an arsenal of "convenient" doctrines that allow it to bend to the trends of the world while still pleasing the faithful.

 

And of course there is no way to refute such a vague, slanderous, and facile accusation.

[jchristopher]

The Brethren can't win: if they ignore Ordain Women, they're "tone deaf"; if some of the Brethren give some members of the group an audience and listen to their concerns, some see that as the first step to Ordain Women's stated goal; if the Brethren speak of women's current roles in the Church, that's seen by some as patronizing.

The Brethren will always win because they have the Lord on their side

[jchristopher]

As my nephew would say, "Haters gonna hate."

I like it. Your nephew understands

[Kenngo1969]

As my nephew would say, "Haters gonna hate."

True dat.

[Kenngo1969]

The Brethren will always win because they have the Lord on their side

Of course.   I think you know what I was talking about, though. They'll never win with critics and the disaffected.  Even if the glass is filled to the brim and running over (let alone not being "half-empty") they'll always see it as being completely empty.

Edited April 6, 2014 by Kenngo1969

[Duncan]

I can see his talk fanning the flames to the OW people

[Kenngo1969]

Oh there's always wiggle room. The church has an arsenal of "convenient" doctrines that allow it to bend to the trends of the world while still pleasing the faithful.

Well, barbarbar, I have only one thing to say to that: "Harharhar"!

[jchristopher]

I find that an extremely sad and cynical view to believe that the Brethren wouldn't have the compassion to address an issue that was troubling so many members (not only those who are proordination but those who care enough to be involved in the conversation at all) and are only forced into the need to respond because of the notice of the press.

I think the church leaders are doing the right thing by addressing it. They are acknowledging the concerns of this group while at the same time clarifying doctrine but not bending or changing it. I talked about this concept before on this forum, that women exercise the authority of the priesthood under the direction of those who hold the keys. I got some resistance when I stated that, but I think it was partly just because it is rarely talked about in that way in the church and so it sounded a little "Out there"

[jchristopher]

Oh there's always wiggle room. The church has an arsenal of "convenient" doctrines that allow it to bend to the trends of the world while still pleasing the faithful.

It's unfortunate you feel that way about the Lord's servants

[Kenngo1969]

I can see his talk fanning the flames to the OW people

There's probably little the Brethren can say, short of announcing OD-3, that wouldn't fan the flames for at least some in the Ordain Women crowd.

[jwhitlock]

Great talk. The brethren are being very direct and very specific about several issues so that the position is well understood.

 

I suspect, though, that OW will continue to agitate for a revelation labeled as such on the subject; <facetiousness> after all, a conference talk on the subject is really nothing more than Elder Oaks' opinion. </facetiousness>

[seriously honestly]

Not much wiggle room there.

 

I don't think he could be any clearer.

I was unable to watch; what did he say?

[barbarbar]

Well, barbarbar, I have only one thing to say to that: "Harharhar"!

This is probably the best reply I've ever received. Well done, good sir.

[barbarbar]

And of course there is no way to refute such a vague, slanderous, and facile accusation.

I believe you mean libelous, not slanderous. All I'm saying is that Elder Oaks could easily join the ranks of prophets and apostles who are thrown under bus by future leaders who cite the arbitrary "speaking as a man" doctrine.