Scott Lloyd Posted March 27, 2014 Posted March 27, 2014 (edited) Also, when Palmer first came out to expose some unnamed leader, speaking on his behalf or whatever it was, I thought he had indicated that this leader was of the opinion that a number of other high profile authorities also did not believe. Can't remember if Mattson suggested that after he came out, though.You are correct in your recollection except that Mattsson was not involved. David T is conflating two separate events. Edited March 27, 2014 by Scott Lloyd
stemelbow Posted March 27, 2014 Posted March 27, 2014 You are correct in your recollection except that Mattson was not involved. David T is conflating two separate accounts. Gatcha.
why me Posted March 27, 2014 Posted March 27, 2014 (edited) John Dehlin may be on his way down off the pedestal he's been put on. I think he should have left that comment off FB. That just wasn't necessary. It only frustrates those that would do anything for a leader to come out and validate their faith crisis. Sometimes John doesn't know when to quit. And even though he went back to activity in the church, it definitely doesn't feel like his testimony came back. I think it may have been to hold onto the "Staylds" crowd. I feel like a traitor to John for saying this. But I'm all for being who you are, even though I don't do it. I hope John will be that. Maybe he doesn't believe but feels it's best for his family to continue activity. A lot of people are doing the same. Maybe they don't believe in any faith, they just like the social scene or the good morals the church espouses. Who knows exactly. But John seems like the same John he was before, when he was leaning towards non belief of God or anything. Hopefully he retains the belief in God. I think his heart is right, but he is so public he must understand that people follow his lead and he must watch the things he puts out there. I get the feeling that John is all about his brand. The problem is that he lost his brand. He is not sure just what that brand is nowadays. He began mormonstories as a way to get to his own belief system. He was a genuine questioner and his interviews reflected this. Then, he entered the stage of disbelief. Suddenly, mormonstories morphed into coming to terms with his own disbelief. Mormonstories chapters were started and mormonstories conferences were started. Mainly for those who were out or disbelieving in the lds church. At this time, he was a popular brand with his own dehlinites. Then, he turned his back on them and developed a new brand of activity but with stipulations. He became a gay ally lds spokesperson giving presentations etc. Thus, a new brand. So, who is john and what is his brand? I am not sure if he knows himself. Edited March 27, 2014 by why me 1
Coreyb Posted March 27, 2014 Posted March 27, 2014 Also, when Palmer first came out to expose some unnamed leader, speaking on his behalf or whatever it was, I thought he had indicated that this leader was of the opinion that a number of other high profile authorities also did not believe. Can't remember if Mattson suggested that after he came out, though.from what I remember him saying, he never really got the opportunity to speak with higher authorities on those types of things
why me Posted March 27, 2014 Posted March 27, 2014 (edited) You are correct in your recollection except that Mattson was not involved. David T is conflating two separate accounts.Having spoke with some swedish members, and asking them about swedish rescue I got the impression that it was not such a big deal. I think that it was all overblown by the critics. Edited March 27, 2014 by why me 1
stemelbow Posted March 27, 2014 Posted March 27, 2014 from what I remember him saying, he never really got the opportunity to speak with higher authorities on those types of things My memory is fuzzy for sure on this. I thought he had a chance or two but wasn't satisfied with the answers. Oh well, I don't care enough to go dig around for the truth on the matter. So whatever. 1
Scott Lloyd Posted March 27, 2014 Posted March 27, 2014 (edited) You beat me to it: Area Seventies are not "General Authorities" and they are not given emeritus status. But the correct spelling actually appears to be: Mattsson--with a double "t" as well as a double "s". (From his sustaining during April 2002 General Conference.) Arrgh! You are correct. When I corrected David T's spelling (he used sen instead of son) I meant to include the double s. As a returned missionary who served in Sweden, I should and do know that as well as I know how to spell my own name. It stems from the Swedish patronymic form, when one's surname was formed from the given name of one's father, i.e. son of Matt, or Matt's son, or, in Swedish, Mattsson. That is why all the son constructions in Swedish names have a double s. I thank you for the correction, even though I am chagrined. Edited March 27, 2014 by Scott Lloyd
Scott Lloyd Posted March 27, 2014 Posted March 27, 2014 Having spoke with some swedish members, and asking them about swedish rescue I got the impression that it was not such a big deal. I think that it was all overblown by the critics.Mattsson himself did a good bit of overblowing, in my opinion.
Calm Posted March 28, 2014 Posted March 28, 2014 Why does he think it's his right to bring up someone else's loss of faith? Because he likes to demonstrate how "in the know" he is?
Calm Posted March 28, 2014 Posted March 28, 2014 I think it may have been to hold onto the "Staylds" crowd. Is he still planning on being a counselor to those in faith crisis?
Calm Posted March 28, 2014 Posted March 28, 2014 (edited) Having spoke with some swedish members, and asking them about swedish rescue I got the impression that it was not such a big deal. I think that it was all overblown by the critics.Having listened to the meeting that was part of it, it definitely was a big deal for some. Edited March 28, 2014 by calmoriah
readstoomuch Posted March 28, 2014 Author Posted March 28, 2014 I think we have to definitely be big tent mormons for doubters or people who still want to socially be mormons. The question we have to answer is how much and what can someone say about the Church without being disciplined. When someone is having doubt, it would be nice to steer them somewhere else besides Mormon Stories. FAIR does very well, though it does not work for all doubters, at least so say the people in MormonStories. Maybe FAIR should post success stories anonymously. That has a way of convincing people that they really are going to find help. I agree with most of the things people have said concerning John and thought they were fair. Whether he (or his followers-and they really do follow him) believe we are fair is a different question.
Calm Posted March 28, 2014 Posted March 28, 2014 Maybe FAIR should post success stories anonymously.http://www.fairmormon.org/about-fairmormon/testimonials 1
Wiki Wonka Posted March 28, 2014 Posted March 28, 2014 I think we have to definitely be big tent mormons for doubters or people who still want to socially be mormons. The question we have to answer is how much and what can someone say about the Church without being disciplined. When someone is having doubt, it would be nice to steer them somewhere else besides Mormon Stories. FAIR does very well, though it does not work for all doubters, at least so say the people in MormonStories. Maybe FAIR should post success stories anonymously. That has a way of convincing people that they really are going to find help. I agree with most of the things people have said concerning John and thought they were fair. Whether he (or his followers-and they really do follow him) believe we are fair is a different question. The closest thing we have on FairMormon at the moment is our "Testimonials" page here: http://www.fairmormon.org/about-fairmormon/testimonials
Mystery Meat Posted March 28, 2014 Posted March 28, 2014 I want there to be a place for doubters and cultural Mormons as well. But I don't think they can campaign to change the doctrine and gospel. I would welcome John to church with me any time, but the second he takes it upon himself to be a prophet and goes against the divine order of things I would remind him that is not his stewardship. 2
readstoomuch Posted March 28, 2014 Author Posted March 28, 2014 So, I see. How about some on the Home page. That way when people first got to your site, they would believe that they are really going to find real answers to their questions. Which of course they will.
Tacenda Posted March 28, 2014 Posted March 28, 2014 (edited) Is he still planning on being a counselor to those in faith crisis?I think he's done under graduate work counseling with LGBT, but probably both. I know he counsels on the phone with people, not me mind you. Atleast I remember he said it in some podcasts, that people call him all the time, he mentions some bishops and maybe a Stake President or two. Maybe he has friends in high places, or why hasn't he been ex'd? Or because of his large following, don't know. Edited March 28, 2014 by Tacenda
Wiki Wonka Posted March 28, 2014 Posted March 28, 2014 (edited) Ha! I am faster than the WikiWonka! I am impressed. So say's the person who now has 1048 FaceBook "likes" on their blog post in a two-day period.... Edited March 28, 2014 by Wiki Wonka 1
Wiki Wonka Posted March 28, 2014 Posted March 28, 2014 So, I see. How about some on the Home page. That way when people first got to your site, they would believe that they are really going to find real answers to their questions. Which of course they will. That's not a bad idea. I'm not sure how we would incorporate it into the home page design, but we can think about it. Right now they can be accessed from the "Perspectives" menu under "Testimonials."
Calm Posted March 28, 2014 Posted March 28, 2014 So say's the person who now has 1048 FaceBook "likes" on their blog post in a two-day period.... I am still recovering from the shock.
mormonnewb Posted March 28, 2014 Posted March 28, 2014 I want there to be a place for doubters and cultural Mormons as well. But I don't think they can campaign to change the doctrine and gospel. I would welcome John to church with me any time, but the second he takes it upon himself to be a prophet and goes against the divine order of things I would remind him that is not his stewardship.I think we should clear up one thing. Dehlin does not have "followers." I've listened to more than 100 episodes of the podcast and not ONCE has he exhorted his "listeners" to do ANYTHING (except perhaps, on occasion, to put some coins into the donate cup ... Podcasts aren't free, you know). If the typical listener is anything like me (heaven help them), they simply listen to the interviews he conducts in an effort to get a better understanding of the issue in question in much the way that someone would listen to the Charlie Rose radio show.Now, don't get me wrong. I'm sure he has "fans." I'm one of them. And I'm also a fan of Lebron James, but I don't seek "greater light and knowledge" from him or think WWLD. The same is true for Dehlin. I enjoy his program. I think fondly of him but I'm no more of a "Dehlin follower" than I am a Halle Berry or Scooby Doo follower.Now, that we've cleared that up, you can continue to decide amongst yourselves whether he should be a member of Christ's family (good luck with that one ).
readstoomuch Posted March 28, 2014 Author Posted March 28, 2014 (edited) Mormonweb, so I have been on the MormonStories Facebook group and read the comments after another of podcasts. For the most part what I read has disintegrated into a group of people who feed on each others hate. You should see what they see about "Tommy" or the evil general authorities. More missionaries are called so that the Church can lock them in as tithing payers for life, after all the corporate entity has to keep itself alive since Christ left. It goes on ad nauseum. Then another person comes on in faith crisis. They are sincere. You would hope their would be a safe place where they could get some real balanced answers. No not on MormonStories. At least not on their Facebook group. Maybe on some podcasts. Its like the 50 dates movie happening over and over again. I used to try and help them, but it is a hopeless battle.I would be glad to have John Dehlin in the family of Christ. I hope he is in the family of Christ. Only Christ knows for sure. What I don`t and can`t tell from reading and listening to John is what he believes about Christ. Edited March 28, 2014 by readstoomuch
halconero Posted March 28, 2014 Posted March 28, 2014 I am still recovering from the shock.What blog is this?
why me Posted March 28, 2014 Posted March 28, 2014 I think we should clear up one thing. Dehlin does not have "followers." I've listened to more than 100 episodes of the podcast and not ONCE has he exhorted his "listeners" to do ANYTHING (except perhaps, on occasion, to put some coins into the donate cup ... Podcasts aren't free, you know). If the typical listener is anything like me (heaven help them), they simply listen to the interviews he conducts in an effort to get a better understanding of the issue in question in much the way that someone would listen to the Charlie Rose radio show. I am glad that you don't.. But during his mormonstories chapter days and the mormonstories conferences, I am certain that both groups contained followers of john. In some sort of way, he became his own prophet. Not in revelation but in people who looked forward to meetings, podcasts and conferences. It happens to all who become the center of a movement. I think that when he abandoned the chapters and conferences, he may have disappointed his followers. But he does seem to be attempting to make a comeback but in a different way.
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