teddyaware Posted January 19, 2014 Author Posted January 19, 2014 For it must needs be, that there is an aopposition in all things.... I always thought of 2 Nephi 2 as being another explanation of the theory of relativity.... no up without down, no "that which acts" without "that which is acted upon", etc. Good one. Gonna ponder this one for a while. Cool! "Lehi... Ancient American Einstein" 1
teddyaware Posted January 19, 2014 Author Posted January 19, 2014 I think the word your looking for is reverence. Excellent. I was fishing at that moment, and couldn't think of a better word.
mfbukowski Posted January 19, 2014 Posted January 19, 2014 Dude! My brain just twisted an ankle!Well that's the problem with talking about existence.No one can do it clearly . The term cannot even be clearly defined, so I don't even bother with it. We all know what it means, kind of like "truth". But talking about it just leads to semantic confusion and is pretty useless. 1
mfbukowski Posted January 19, 2014 Posted January 19, 2014 In high school, I took a class on oriental studies. It was a fun class. Even though there were only about 250 kids in the high school, we had an oriental studies. We studied the culture of the Orient and even got into some of the religions which started there.We were studying Taoism one day and the teacher, Ace Williams, said that many Taoists and practitioners of other oriental religions believe that nothing is good and that this belief is true and he left it there. In fact he left the class of a couple of minutes and when he came back, everybody in the class thought he was as idiot. How could he ever believe such bilge. Something has to be good.Since I was the one who opened my mouth and told him in all my wisdom and acumen that he had to be a loon to believe that, he simply told me that if I didn't believe that nothing was good, that I would have the opportunity to defend my belief in two days. He gave me ten minutes on that day to show that he was wrong. No problemo Señor Williams. I've got this. I did give a great defense of why something is good and why the "nothing is good" belief was rubbish. I was awesome.Mr. Williams told me that he was convinced through and through that something was good, but he still believed that nothing was good also. Now I was completely confused; he was talking total garbage.He then said that he had forgotten his drinking cup which he always had in class and he asked me if I would be good enough to go get it for him and to also fill it up with water. As I was leaving, he had this "gotcha" grin on his face. What trap had I walked into? When I got his cup, it had been filled up with plastic and was now ruined. There was no way to get that plastic out.I brought him the cup, showed it to him, and explained that the cup was now ruined.He asked me with a huge grin if the cup would be ruined if there was nothing in it. Nope, that would be awesome and why is he smiling.The principle and my bishop who was another teacher, were standing in back of the library where the class was held, and they were also grinning. I knew I had be set up, but I couldn't figure out why. He again asked me if nothing was in the cup, would that be good. Sure, what's your point. I was none too bright back then.He finally rolled his eyes and asked me to sit down with the rest of the class. He then said that the teaching of "nothing is good" is not the teaching of "everything is bad." He said that sometimes what we call nothing, or emptiness, is good. He was talking about the "object" nothing. It finally started to sink in and some 40+ years later, what I started to learn that day in class is still sinking in.Mr. M, there is nothingness and it really exists.As far as Nephi and his use of God as proof what what he taught, from my POV, using the existence God as proof in logical argument doesn't work very good, but maybe it did in the culture of Nephi since very few probably questioned the existence of God and so maybe Nephi was using this logical mindset to prove his point.I studied Taoism a lot in college, I just wish I had a teacher that brilliant In the west logic is a prime requirement in philosophy, but the problem with natural languages is that they are all ambiguous, so words like "nothing" have many meanings, which is why it is so difficult to talk about, and it is futile to attempt to make a logical argument using such words. So I am just playing around trying to show that. Ultimately understanding this stuff is non verbal, as is spiritual communication. It is all deeply personal and subjective and even mystical, and really cannot be spoken about clearly. 3
mfbukowski Posted January 20, 2014 Posted January 20, 2014 We learn therein that without God nothing at all would exist.To me, it seems more reasonable to think there should be nothing at all but nothingness.So according to you, since it is more reasonable that there should be nothing but nothingness. then God could not exist and therefore nothing else does either. Just messin' with ya!! 1
cinepro Posted January 20, 2014 Posted January 20, 2014 Did God exist before the big bang? Well, I believe in Intelligent Design, so there must be a superior being to God that looks nothing like Him (or us) that "designed" His body. So I suspect that being existed before the Big Bang.
wenglund Posted January 20, 2014 Posted January 20, 2014 Well, I believe in Intelligent Design, so there must be a superior being to God that looks nothing like Him (or us) that "designed" His body. So I suspect that being existed before the Big Bang. I don't know about being superior to God, but there were two "designer" beings that existed before the Big Bang, and their names were/are Chuck Lorrie and Bill Prady. (See HERE) Thanks, -Wade Englund-
Stone holm Posted January 20, 2014 Posted January 20, 2014 Well, I believe in Intelligent Design, so there must be a superior being to God that looks nothing like Him (or us) that "designed" His body. So I suspect that being existed before the Big Bang.Ah now that is cheating, the question was whether God existed before the Big Bang. Mormonism kicks the question of the ultimate creator permanently and irretrievably down the road. Hie Unto Kolob lyrics and all that.
Stone holm Posted January 20, 2014 Posted January 20, 2014 I see Please reference all the scriptures which speak of nothingness so I can become better educated on the Mormon view of nothingness.Was thinking of the stuff on no such thing as immaterial matter and song lyrics about no pure space.
mfbukowski Posted January 20, 2014 Posted January 20, 2014 (edited) deleted Edited January 20, 2014 by mfbukowski
changed Posted January 20, 2014 Posted January 20, 2014 I think we are surrounded by more than meets the eye - that there are higher dimensions out there, and more realities than we are currently aware of... that the big bang was not all encompassing.
Stone holm Posted January 20, 2014 Posted January 20, 2014 I think we are surrounded by more than meets the eye - that there are higher dimensions out there, and more realities than we are currently aware of... that the big bang was not all encompassing.Are you talking multiverse here?
ERayR Posted January 20, 2014 Posted January 20, 2014 Are you talking multiverse here? Sounds good to me.
urroner Posted January 21, 2014 Posted January 21, 2014 I think that the "multiverse" belief fits right into the gospel. Here's an article from Dialogue: http://www.dialoguejournal.com/wp-content/uploads/sbi/articles/Dialogue_V39N02_13.pdf I love the penultimate paragraph: In a Mormon multiverse cosmology, many questions remain open. Are there communication and movement of the gods and other premortal and postmortal beings between universes? When a universe experiences a big crunch or big freeze, does the god of that universe generate a new universe or "relocate" to another universe fit for carrying out the "great plan of happiness" for a new household of spirit children? Did God, our Father in Heaven, achieve godhood in this universe or a prior one? If God was exalted in a prior universe, how many universes has he governed? Jesus Christ is the redeemer for this universe, but is he the redeemer for others? Are some universes "stillborn" in the sense that they do not have the required values of the physical constants for a universe capable of sustaining life? Because the multiverse is infinite, are there replicas of us in other universes as postulated by the replication paradox? Cosmologists speculate whether the physical laws are the same across the ensemble of universes, but what about the spiritual laws? Are the spiritual laws "multiversal" or just "universal"? As multiverse cosmologies develop scientifically, these questions and others will stimulate much discussion.
changed Posted January 21, 2014 Posted January 21, 2014 (edited) Are you talking multiverse here?I was thinking more along the lines of higher euclidean dims, but the multiverse works too! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four-dimensional_spaceetc. Edited January 21, 2014 by changed
thesometimesaint Posted January 21, 2014 Posted January 21, 2014 Even if a multiverse exists, and I believe it does, at present there is no known way for us to interact with it beyond our own universe.
Stone holm Posted January 21, 2014 Posted January 21, 2014 Even if a multiverse exists, and I believe it does, at present there is no known way for us to interact with it beyond our own universe. Well some science fiction writers have posited that the human mind is a quantum effect and that when life ends in one universe it pops over to another which would cause Joseph Smith's ring sermon to make a modicum of sense.
ERayR Posted January 21, 2014 Posted January 21, 2014 Even if a multiverse exists, and I believe it does, at present there is no known way for us to interact with it beyond our own universe. Some dimensions can not interact with others Where God and Christ are they can not come. 2
wenglund Posted January 22, 2014 Posted January 22, 2014 (edited) Even if a multiverse exists, and I believe it does, at present there is no known way for us to interact with it beyond our own universe. I get the sense that I have recently shifted from interacting with a universe where most people viewed up as up, to interacting with an alternate universe where most people view down as up. Thanks, -Wade Englund- Edited January 22, 2014 by wenglund 1
Stone holm Posted January 22, 2014 Posted January 22, 2014 I get the sense that I have recently shifted from interacting with a universe where most people viewed up as up, to interacting with an alternate universe where most people view down as up. Thanks, -Wade Englund-In the universe is there such a thing as up and down?
mfbukowski Posted January 22, 2014 Posted January 22, 2014 I get the sense that I have recently shifted from interacting with a universe where most people viewed up as up, to interacting with an alternate universe where most people view down as up. Thanks, -Wade Englund- Uh, I thought we were supposed to avoid politics? 2
thesometimesaint Posted January 22, 2014 Posted January 22, 2014 Poly means many, and tic(k)s are blood suckers. 2
wenglund Posted January 23, 2014 Posted January 23, 2014 In the universe is there such a thing as up and down? ...perhaps not in your alternate universe. There is in mine--where up is the direction of progress, and down is the opposite. Thanks, -Wade Englund-
Stone holm Posted January 23, 2014 Posted January 23, 2014 Ah progress is directional up as opposed to down, I was thinking more literally that when you are in space there is no up or down. Gravity or maps tend to define our sense of up or down. And headed down is normally South on maps, but I guess that probably is consistent with your approach using " progress" at least culturally in America as well.
Robert F. Smith Posted January 23, 2014 Posted January 23, 2014 I think that the "multiverse" belief fits right into the gospel. Here's an article from Dialogue: http://www.dialoguejournal.com/wp-content/uploads/sbi/articles/Dialogue_V39N02_13.pdf I love the penultimate paragraph:........................."Jesus Christ is the redeemer for this universe, but is he the redeemer for others?".......................... Is Jesus Christ the Redeemer of this universe, or simply of planet Earth? Whatever your answer, what is your evidence?
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