Stone holm Posted January 23, 2014 Posted January 23, 2014 Is Jesus Christ the Redeemer of this universe, or simply of planet Earth? Whatever your answer, what is your evidence?He is the redeemer for all of our Heavenly Father's creations, whether Heavenly Father created the entire universe is open to question.
thesometimesaint Posted January 23, 2014 Posted January 23, 2014 He is the redeemer for all of our Heavenly Father's creations, whether Heavenly Father created the entire universe is open to question. God created the Heavens and the earth. Heavens are anything not earth. So a good supposition would be yes God created the entire universe.
wenglund Posted January 23, 2014 Posted January 23, 2014 Ah progress is directional up as opposed to down, I was thinking more literally that when you are in space there is no up or down. Gravity or maps tend to define our sense of up or down. And headed down is normally South on maps, but I guess that probably is consistent with your approach using " progress" at least culturally in America as well. Even in a literal sense there is, in fact, up and down, though, as with the figurative, it is relative to orientation markers. You can ask most any 4 or 5 year-old to point up, and they can do so. I am not sure what your problem is. Thanks, -Wade Englund-
thesometimesaint Posted January 23, 2014 Posted January 23, 2014 Even in a literal sense there is, in fact, up and down, though, as with the figurative, it is relative to orientation markers. You can ask most any 4 or 5 year-old to point up, and they can do so. I am not sure what your problem is. Thanks, -Wade Englund- Highly relative.
Stone holm Posted January 23, 2014 Posted January 23, 2014 God created the Heavens and the earth. Heavens are anything not earth. So a good supposition would be yes God created the entire universe.Really, if we accept the Snow Couplet, then it would follow that Heavenly Father lives on a celestial planet with His spirit siblings. We know that planet is nigh unto Kolob. It is also reasonable to assume that it is in this universe. Then it is also reasonable to assume that His Father and His Siblings organized planets, and if they are in this universe, well then you see the problem with God creating this universe. Not saying doctrine is clear, but it should at least be consistent logically. So we have to be careful about running too far with expressions used in times when they barely had telescopes and may not have fully understood what stars were let alone galaxies.
thesometimesaint Posted January 23, 2014 Posted January 23, 2014 Really, if we accept the Snow Couplet, then it would follow that Heavenly Father lives on a celestial planet with His spirit siblings. We know that planet is nigh unto Kolob. It is also reasonable to assume that it is in this universe. Then it is also reasonable to assume that His Father and His Siblings organized planets, and if they are in this universe, well then you see the problem with God creating this universe. Not saying doctrine is clear, but it should at least be consistent logically. So we have to be careful about running too far with expressions used in times when they barely had telescopes and may not have fully understood what stars were let alone galaxies. I watched as my house was being built. My family and I moving in made it a home. What is a few billions of years for eternal beings?
Stone holm Posted January 23, 2014 Posted January 23, 2014 I watched as my house was being built. My family and I moving in made it a home. What is a few billions of years for eternal beings?Not saying I accept the Big Bang theory or timelines based on it, but do accept the idea of continued socialability and the hymn about Kolob
thesometimesaint Posted January 23, 2014 Posted January 23, 2014 Not saying I accept the Big Bang theory or timelines based on it, but do accept the idea of continued socialability and the hymn about Kolob Far be it for me to tell anyone what they have to believe. But the science behind the Big Bang is sound. In my view the Big Bang is consistent with an eternal God, at least it doesn't contradict it. I think that when we mortals start putting limits on God. We inevitably get ourselves into trouble.
Stone holm Posted January 23, 2014 Posted January 23, 2014 Far be it for me to tell anyone what they have to believe. But the science behind the Big Bang is sound. In my view the Big Bang is consistent with an eternal God, at least it doesn't contradict it. I think that when we mortals start putting limits on God. We inevitably get ourselves into trouble.Not sure I believe in an eternal God in the sense He was always a God, not sure that can be squared with our teachings.
thesometimesaint Posted January 24, 2014 Posted January 24, 2014 (edited) Not sure I believe in an eternal God in the sense He was always a God, not sure that can be squared with our teachings. The Scriptures say is the eternal God, and that he was God from before the foundations of this world were made. What that means to me is God has always been God for a very long time in our mortal minds. Humans aren't very good at visualizing large numbers. We lose them in the jumble. IE; Past about 40 individual we lose the ability to pick out individuals and just call them a group of 40. Edited January 24, 2014 by thesometimesaint
Stone holm Posted January 24, 2014 Posted January 24, 2014 The Scriptures say is the eternal God, and that he was God from before the foundations of this world were made. What that means to me is God has always been God for a very long time in our mortal minds. Humans aren't very good at visualizing large numbers. We lose them in the jumble. IE; Past about 40 individual we lose the ability to pick out individuals and just call them a group of 40.I agree with this, but it wasn't the implication of your prior post.
thesometimesaint Posted January 24, 2014 Posted January 24, 2014 I agree with this, but it wasn't the implication of your prior post. If God is eternal being and we are eternal beings also I believe science doesn't contradict that. Though definitely young earther's have a bit of a problem.
teddyaware Posted January 24, 2014 Author Posted January 24, 2014 If God is eternal being and we are eternal beings also I believe science doesn't contradict that. Though definitely young earther's have a bit of a problem. When the new heaven and new earth are created with breathtaking speed, will the scientifically inclined residents of the new earth be known as "young new earther's?" 2
Rob Osborn Posted January 24, 2014 Posted January 24, 2014 (edited) I do know that God hasn't been God forever Edited January 24, 2014 by Rob Osborn
teddyaware Posted January 24, 2014 Author Posted January 24, 2014 (edited) I do know that God hasn't been God forever But the interesting thing is that He says He has been God forever, and God can't lie. Edited January 24, 2014 by teddyaware
Rob Osborn Posted January 24, 2014 Posted January 24, 2014 But the interesting thing is that He says He has been God forever, and God can't lie. He also says that his works can't be numbered but they are numbered to him
Rob Osborn Posted January 24, 2014 Posted January 24, 2014 33 And worlds without number have I created; and I also created them for mine own purpose; and by the Son I created them, which is mine Only Begotten 35 But only an account of this earth, and the inhabitants thereof, give I unto you. For behold, there are many worlds that have passed away by the word of my power. And there are many that now stand, and innumerable are they unto man; but all things are numbered unto me, for they are mine and I know them. (Moses 1:33,35) Now of course it isn't really true that he has created an infinite amount of worlds as an infinite of something cant be numbered. 1
teddyaware Posted January 24, 2014 Author Posted January 24, 2014 33 And worlds without number have I created; and I also created them for mine own purpose; and by the Son I created them, which is mine Only Begotten35 But only an account of this earth, and the inhabitants thereof, give I unto you. For behold, there are many worlds that have passed away by the word of my power. And there are many that now stand, and innumerable are they unto man; but all things are numbered unto me, for they are mine and I know them. (Moses 1:33,35)Now of course it isn't really true that he has created an infinite amount of worlds as an infinite of something cant be numbered.I don't see the word 'infinite' in this quote. I see the expressions "without number" and "innumerable", which the Lord then immediately qualifies by saying they are not without number and innumerable unto Him.
Rob Osborn Posted January 24, 2014 Posted January 24, 2014 I don't see the word 'infinite' in this quote. I see the expressions "without number" and "innumerable", which the Lord then immediately qualifies by saying they are not without number and innumerable unto Him. Some people equate "without number" with "infinity".
Rob Osborn Posted January 24, 2014 Posted January 24, 2014 Kind of like even though we will continue on forever we will not exist at a point infinitely in the future.
Stone holm Posted January 24, 2014 Posted January 24, 2014 When the new heaven and new earth are created with breathtaking speed, will the scientifically inclined residents of the new earth be known as "young new earther's?"Yeah, do you have some clue as to what that means?
Robert F. Smith Posted January 24, 2014 Posted January 24, 2014 God created the Heavens and the earth. Heavens are anything not earth. So a good supposition would be yes God created the entire universe.If God created this universe, did He do it in stages covering over 13 billion years? Did He use the Big Bang? Is that the Creation described in Gen 1? Did He create this Galaxy, while other gods were busy creating other galaxies (there are billions of them)? Or does Gen 1 cover the Creation of this Earth and our solar system only? Whatever answer you prefer, what is your evidence for it?
Robert F. Smith Posted January 24, 2014 Posted January 24, 2014 He is the redeemer for all of our Heavenly Father's creations, whether Heavenly Father created the entire universe is open to question.So, are you saying that our God created several worlds (the number and extent of which are in question), and used only one Redeemer for all those worlds? Doesn't that notion come a cropper when dealing with the Plan of Salvation on other worlds, where there would be no Messiah born of a Virgin -- a Messiah who would then teach His principles and organize his Church and Restore it? So, how would the sequence of Creation, Fall, Redemption take place on that odd world? Without an in-house Messiah? Is there any evidence to support your conclusion?
thesometimesaint Posted January 24, 2014 Posted January 24, 2014 When the new heaven and new earth are created with breathtaking speed, will the scientifically inclined residents of the new earth be known as "young new earther's?" When God makes this a "young new earth" we'll talk about the science.
teddyaware Posted January 24, 2014 Author Posted January 24, 2014 Some people equate "without number" with "infinity". In that quote, "without number" and "innumerable" are synonymous. The point the Lord was making was that while the His creations may seem infinite unto man, they are numbered unto Him.
Recommended Posts