Mocking The Poor

[thesometimesaint]

1.This is false plain and simple. If your base is 1 dollar to produce your good. And the government steps in and says you have to pay your employee 1 dollar were it was 50 cents, the cost has to be shifted to the consumer. The employer just can't eat it.

 

2.I have no idea what you are talking about. Business is private indivuals. They all pay taxes. Not one gets away from it unless the government doesn't treat every one equally. Which they don't. No one escapes payroll tax from a business.

 

http://www.cnn.com/2013/02/24/opinion/greene-minimum-wage/

 

No. Business taxes are on the income of the business. No business are not private individuals. Businesses are a legal fiction to promote commerce. Thus maintained and regulated by the state.

 

In this country we have what is known as a progressive income tax. Right out of Adam Smith a Scotsman and the inventor of what we know as Capitalism.

Smith stated "it is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion", because a tax on "the luxuries and vanities of life [which] occasion the principal expense of the rich... would in general fall heaviest upon the rich; and in this sort of inequality there would not, perhaps, be anything very unreasonable."

 

Actually most companies escape paying federal income taxes.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/most-companies-pay-no-federal-income-tax/

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

There are actually over 500 calories in 10 oz. of salmon.  The veggies would add calories as well, but how much would depend on what kind and how much you were eating.

 

Just saying...  

http://www.fatsecret.com/calories-nutrition/usda/wild-atlantic-salmon?portionid=37199&portionamount=10.0

Looks like just the Salmon is 402 calories. I would bet the veggies would be about 50-100 calories.

 

Plain large bagel is 337

http://www.fatsecret.com/calories-nutrition/generic/bagel?portionid=11896&portionamount=1.000

So well.....

[Vance]

Yes, that is what Hannity and Limbaugh say

Actually, they freely and openly admit that they are of a certain political point of view. No deception there.

Where as the alphabet networks are so blind to their bias that they deny it is there.

 

and radio entertainers are always right.

More often than you know.

 

When you say "so called" are you suggesting there is a different mainstream media they are not a part of?

Nope! I am suggesting that they are not mainstream at all but leftwing. Edited January 7, 2014 by Vance

[thesometimesaint]

I'm not understanding your point here.

 

This crash was caused by a grain train which derailed.  How does this have anything to do with what Vance said? 

 

It was an oil train carrying highly explosive volatile liquids.

[bluebell]

And I am hungery all the time as  result I am huge.

 

Cravings and habit are not a very good gauge of whether or not your body is getting the calories it needs to feel satiated.  

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

http://www.cnn.com/2013/02/24/opinion/greene-minimum-wage/

 

No. Business taxes are on the income of the business. No business are not private individuals. Businesses are a legal fiction to promote commerce. Thus maintained and regulated by the state.

 

In this country we have what is known as a progressive income tax. Right out of Adam Smith a Scotsman and the inventor of what we know as Capitalism.

Smith stated "it is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion", because a tax on "the luxuries and vanities of life [which] occasion the principal expense of the rich... would in general fall heaviest upon the rich; and in this sort of inequality there would not, perhaps, be anything very unreasonable."

 

Actually most companies escape paying federal income taxes.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/most-companies-pay-no-federal-income-tax/

Um business are owned by private citizens saint. They are people. And people pay taxes not business. If taxes go up the busniess just don't eat that cost. They shift it. They have to. They don't have a choice. If business doesn't make money to cover their expenderatures can they stay in busniess? One of those expenses is taxes. If those go up what must a business do to stay in business and pay those taxes? What do they do saint? You were a COO. Come on you know what happens. Stop quoting me silly news stories. You know very well that you have to raise prices on the goods and services they offer.  

 

And I don't know why you keep trotting out Adam Smith. As if I am some how beholden to what he says because I think Captialism is a good thing. A progressive tax system is a joke and it does not work.

Edited January 7, 2014 by Mola Ram Suda Ram

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

Cravings and habit are not a very good gauge of whether or not your body is getting the calories it needs to feel satiated.  

Well shoot you seem to have a point on this one. I dunno I really can't help Vance out on this one.

[bluebell]

It was an oil train carrying highly explosive volatile liquids.

 

Which was caused by a grain train.  

 

Let's get an AMEN on the evils of grain. And having to transport it to people who want to eat but don't live next to wheat fields, they are evil too.  Just look at the destruction they have caused.

[thesometimesaint]

Ok 6 oz. Just saying though 10 oz is a lot.... and that (6 oz) would keep you feeling fuller than the bagel. I was thinking of a green beans, corn, and carrot blend. Oh well.

 

While good for you, Those veggies alone, or together, can not make a balanced healthy diet. The average healthy man needs between 2000 and 3000 calories per day. Plus vitamins and minerals that are just not available in any combination of green beans, corn, and carrots.

[why me]

You know Nehor you should do some study on why the minimum wage was first instituted. I think the minimumwage hurts poor people more than it helps them. Google Milton Freidman and watch his video's on the minimum wage. I think he is right on. What you have done is essentially regurgitate a democractic talking point.

You need to read Noami Klein's The Shock Doctrine. Friedman has been responsible for some terrible economics in the former soviet block. His chicago school gutted their economies and created untold poverty with their shock and awe economics. Naomi called it disaster capitalism. Hardly christian in outlook as the elderly went hungry during the transformation.

 

Not to mention chile. After the overthrow of Allende in the early 70s, friedman economics was the rule of the day in Chile under its dictatorship. And it was terrible. The chicago school are followers of Friedman.

 

After the coup and the death of Allende, Pinochet and his Chicago Boys did their best to dismantle Chile's public sphere, auctioning off state enterprises and slashing financial and trade regulations. Enormous wealth was created in this period but at a terrible cost: by the early 80s, Pinochet's Friedman-prescribed policies had caused rapid de-industrialisation, a tenfold increase in unemployment and an explosion of distinctly unstable shantytowns. They also led to a crisis of corruption and debt so severe that, in 1982, Pinochet was forced to fire his key Chicago Boy advisers and nationalise several of the large deregulated financial institutions. (Sound familiar?)

Fortunately, the Chicago Boys did not manage to undo everything Allende accomplished. The national copper company, Codelco, remained in state hands, pumping wealth into public coffers and preventing the Chicago Boys from tanking Chile's economy completely. They also never got around to trashing Allende's tough building code, an ideological oversight for which we should all be grateful.

 

 

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/cifamerica/2010/mar/03/chile-earthquake

 

Thus, because of such economics more poverty was created.

Edited January 7, 2014 by why me

[bluebell]

Um business are owned by private citizens saint. They are people. And people pay taxes not business. If taxes go up the busniess just don't eat that cost. They shift it. They have to. They don't have a choice. If business doesn't make money to cover their expenderatures can they stay in busniess? One of those expenses is taxes. If those go up what must a business do to stay in business and pay those taxes? What do they do saint? You were a COO. Come on you know what happens. Stop quoting me silly news stories. You know very well that you have to raise prices on the goods and services they offer.  

 

And I don't know why you keep trotting out Adam Smith. As if I am some how beholden to what he says because I think Captialism is a good thing. A progressive tax system is a joke and it does not work.

 

You've got a point.

 

My father works for a large natural gas and oil company.  They pay taxes.  The people in one state were upset about the profits the business was making and decided that they wanted to increase the tax on the land which the business used to transport it's product into cities and such (it's product in this case was natural gas-which was used to heat people's homes and businesses, etc.).  The business buried it's pipes in public lands, and the people wanted them to pay more for that privilege.

 

The bill did not pass however, when people were made aware that any rise in taxes would automatically be passed along (cent for cent) to the customer.  Thus, voting in a 10% increase in taxes that this business would pay in this area, would be the equivalent of the people voting for a 10% increase in their energy bill.  People rightly decided that that wasn't such a good deal for them.

 

Especially since they only reason they wanted to raise the taxes in the first place was because they were mad that their energy bills were so high at the time (something the company had little control over since the price of this energy is regulated).

 

I have no idea if that's how all business taxes work, but that's how it worked in this one case i'm aware of.

[MorningStar]

http://www.fatsecret.com/calories-nutrition/usda/wild-atlantic-salmon?portionid=37199&portionamount=10.0

Looks like just the Salmon is 402 calories. I would bet the veggies would be about 50-100 calories.

 

Plain large bagel is 337

http://www.fatsecret.com/calories-nutrition/generic/bagel?portionid=11896&portionamount=1.000

So well.....

My steak was about 600 calories.  I cooked bacon for the salad, and then I sauteed the mushrooms in the bacon grease, but it wasn't enough bacon grease, so I added butter, and garlic, and green onion.  Oh yeah, I also added a bunch of crumbled blue cheese to the salad, olives, the bacon, and my rockin' vinaigrette has extra virgin olive oil, which has 119 calories in one tablespoon. 

 

I'm sure that meal must have been close to 1000 calories.  Then I woke up 2 pounds lighter.    And now I just ate 210 calories of macadamia nuts.

 

So which is more filling - 600 calories of steak or 600 calories of white bread?  And which is more affordable?  The stuff that leaves you still hungry is more affordable, which is why it's so easy to get fat when you are poor.  Not many people have the will power to be hungry all the time. 

 

Also, I don't really understand the poor people eating at McDonald's thing because I still think buying crappy food at the grocery store is cheaper.  Sometimes you can get a whole package of hot dogs for a dollar, which lasts for days vs. a 99 cent cheeseburger. 

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

You've got a point.

 

My father works for a large natural gas and oil company.  They pay taxes.  The people in one state were upset about the profits the business was making and decided that they wanted to increase the tax on the land which the business used to transport it's product into cities and such (it's product in this case was natural gas-which was used to heat people's homes and businesses, etc.).  The business buried it's pipes in public lands, and the people wanted them to pay more for that privilege.

 

The bill did not pass however, when people were made aware that any rise in taxes would automatically be passed along (cent for cent) to the customer.  Thus, voting in a 10% increase in taxes that this business would pay in this area, would be the equivalent of the people voting for a 10% increase in their energy bill.  People rightly decided that that wasn't such a good deal for them.

 

Especially since they only reason they wanted to raise the taxes in the first place was because they were mad that their energy bills were so high at the time (something the company had little control over since the price of this energy is regulated).

 

I have no idea if that's how all business taxes work, but that's how it worked in this one case i'm aware of.

Not everything in business would be quite like this, but the idea is the same wether it is gas or chocolate or hats. If peoples expenses go up, regardless of wether they are taxes, engery prices, or the cost of materials, the business just doesn't eat those cost increases. They shift it to the consumer. Which BTW many consumers are business. So it really just compounds the problem.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

 

 

Also, I don't really understand the poor people eating at McDonald's thing because I still think buying crappy food at the grocery store is cheaper.  Sometimes you can get a whole package of hot dogs for a dollar, which lasts for days vs. a 99 cent cheeseburger. 

Ok ok fine I concede some points. I think this gets more to the heart of the matter. But one cannot still deny that part of being fat is not working out ie, that calorie intake must be = to or more than calories burned. Ok horse beaten to death now by me.

[bluebell]

 

Also, I don't really understand the poor people eating at McDonald's thing because I still think buying crappy food at the grocery store is cheaper.  Sometimes you can get a whole package of hot dogs for a dollar, which lasts for days vs. a 99 cent cheeseburger. 

 

Too true!

 

MnG made the point that less than healthy food is cheaper than healthy food in general, regardless of where you buy it-and since the issue has been weight gain and not responsible spending, it all worked.  

 

Speaking for myself, i've just been using McDonald's in the example because it's also unhealthy and most people know what you can get for a dollar at McDonald's, but have no idea how much a package of hot dogs costs at Walmart.  It's easier to make a point when both parties have the same knowledge.

 

I'm with you though.  Fast food is cheap, but it's never as cheap as cooking at home.  You can make tuna casserole for like $1.50 a serving!  It still may not be really great for you, but financially speaking, it's the better deal.  I don't think a lot of people know how to make homemade things anymore though.  This was an issue i ran into when i was RS president and had to help people buy groceries.  People had no idea what to do with raw materials like flour, sugar, rice, and meat so they would want to spend all their money on t.v. dinners.

[Calm]

Which will make you fat.

One can of pop a day equals 15 more lbs a year....if one goes by caloric intake = certain amount of poundage....

Edited January 7, 2014 by calmoriah

[MorningStar]

There was an interesting show I saw where a family didn't even have transportation to get to a grocery store, so they got a lot of food at 711.  Ugh!  And sometimes they don't have the cooking utensils they need either.  I never even thought of that, although I never baked bread for years because I didn't have any bread pans and there were times we had less than a dollar in our account.  Definitely wasn't eating steak or macadamia nuts then!    Actually when I saw the nuts were $17 at Costco, I had a long debate with myself and decided I deserved them. 

[thesometimesaint]

Um business are owned by private citizens saint. They are people. And people pay taxes not business. If taxes go up the busniess just don't eat that cost. They shift it. They have to. They don't have a choice. If business doesn't make money to cover their expenderatures can they stay in busniess? One of those expenses is taxes. If those go up what must a business do to stay in business and pay those taxes? What do they do saint? You were a COO. Come on you know what happens. Stop quoting me silly news stories. You know very well that you have to raise prices on the goods and services they offer.  

 

And I don't know why you keep trotting out Adam Smith. As if I am some how beholden to what he says because I think Captialism is a good thing. A progressive tax system is a joke and it does not work.

 

That's a Romneyism. Businesses are a legal fiction. They are not individuals. They don't get sick, they don't get too old to work, and they don't die.

 

If a business uses public resources, and they all do. Then they have to pay taxes that support those resources.

 

If my business wants to make money. I use the use public resources to do it. I have not only a legal obligation to pay for them, but a moral one besides.

 

As a COO I didn't pay the business taxes. The CFO did.  As a company we charged what the market would bear for our services. If the public felt we overcharging then we either lowered our rates. If we were what the public felt were undercharging we might have a slight increase in business but we would still go bankrupt. We charged enough that we were neither overcharging or undercharging.

 

I keep using him because he is the father of what we know as Capitalism. He established the principles that we operate under today.

 

You might think it is a joke, but I don't find it very funny when I have to use my tax dollars to subsidize private for profit companies that deliberately underpay their employees.

[Calm]

A higher calorie intake does not translate a satiated appetite. In fact, if the calories come from sugars and/or carbohydrates they actually increase the appetite.

Over the long haul when the caloric intake is mostly carbs (as you point out).  Temporarily they provide a greater satiation due to an increase in serotonin, IIRC.  However, it can start a roller coaster effect so that more carbs are needed...still since there is protein in the hamburger and fat which do satiate the appetite, the hamburger and fries is still a better choice than the carrots, since carrots are pure carb last time I checked and we were told when my daughter was diagnosed as diabetic, a food she needed to be careful with due to the high sugar content.

Edited January 7, 2014 by calmoriah

[Calm]

Right you cut carbs which are high in calories. That huge steak and mushrooms has less calories than your pizza and spaghetti. One bagel has 400 calories. However if you have a 10 oz fellet of samon and some veggies  you are probably under 400 callories and you just filled your self up more than you could with the bagel.

Fats which are included in the steak and salad dressing are even more densely packed with calories.  I have seen high calorie diets that result in greater weight loss than hardly eating anything in a day but mainly carbs.

 

A lot depends on body metabolism, how much one is used to eating carbs, and a lot of other factors.

 

Been studying nutrition since my teen years.  And they keep changing the rules, lol.  It is much more complicated than most people think.

 

We were told when that my daughter could keep her sugar levels perfect on a jelly bean diet if she matched it perfectly with insulin...bunch of bull that was.  In the last year she is finally within normal range because she has gone to low carb.  Matching insulin still didn't take care of the ups and downs.  It is simpler when your body is healthy and does all the calculations right on its own, but usually by the time someone is obese, the body isn't healthy and things aren't being produced in a perfect balance to work perfectly with the diet.

[Calm]

Ok 6 oz. Just saying though 10 oz is a lot.... and that (6 oz) would keep you feeling fuller than the bagel. I was thinking of a green beans, corn, and carrot blend. Oh well.

Probably should leave out the corn.  Lots of people have problems digesting that....

[mercyngrace]

There was an interesting show I saw where a family didn't even have transportation to get to a grocery store, so they got a lot of food at 711.  Ugh!  And sometimes they don't have the cooking utensils they need either.  I never even thought of that, although I never baked bread for years because I didn't have any bread pans and there were times we had less than a dollar in our account.  Definitely wasn't eating steak or macadamia nuts then!    Actually when I saw the nuts were $17 at Costco, I had a long debate with myself and decided I deserved them. 

 

We lived in a DC suburb for 6 months on military assignment at the Pentagon and the only furnished apt for a family of 6 we could find was in an area with a lot of low income citizens. Most people took the bus to get around but if you've ever tried to carry groceries on the bus... well, let's just say that the 7-11 on the corner of the main street in front of our complex sold a lot of bread, milk, eggs, cheese and grocery/household items. And I can't tell you how often I saw folks opt for gas station hot dogs over actually grocery shopping. After an 8 hour shift at a menial job and a 45 minute bus commute on either end of that shift, a bus ride to the grocery store and a taxi ride back (to accommodate the purchases) just didn't seem appealing, I guess. Easier to get hot dogs, chips, and a soda. 

 

To this day, my kids compare all things horrible to "when we lived in Virginia".

[Calm]

 

 

Also, I don't really understand the poor people eating at McDonald's thing because I still think buying crappy food at the grocery store is cheaper.  Sometimes you can get a whole package of hot dogs for a dollar, which lasts for days vs. a 99 cent cheeseburger. 

Well, having known some poor people who ate constantly at McDonald's it was due to the mom not wanting to put the time into cooking and cleaning which goes along with eating.  In her case, she had the time.  However, I can see why parents who work two jobs...or more might not have the time to shop, prepare and clean so see the time saved as money in the pocket.  Don't know if it actually works that way though....

[Calm]

 Most people took the bus to get around but if you've ever tried to carry groceries on the bus... 

This is what we had to do when we lived in Russia...and had to hit a few stores to get everything as well.  Came home exhausted at the end of it...and that was all I had to do all day.  Thank goodness they had a bakery on every corner...fresh bread, no preservatives, absolutely delicious, would turn moldy in three days if not eaten, pastries too...I think everyone gained weight for that time even though we had to walk/take the Metro everywhere.

[Vance]

No. Business taxes are on the income of the business.

They are a cost of doing business which are past on to the consumer.

No business are not private individuals.

ALL private businesses are owned by individuals.

Businesses are a legal fiction to promote commerce.

Only in a fascist state.

Thus maintained and regulated by the state.

Only in a communist state.

 

In this country we have what is known as a progressive income tax.

Yes, something that even God WON'T do.

Right out of Adam Smith a Scotsman and the inventor of what we know as Capitalism.

Capitalism existed long before Adam Smith. He just may have been the first to explain it and give it a name. Too bad that he erred on the progressive tax thingy.

Smith stated "it is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion", because a tax on "the luxuries and vanities of life [which] occasion the principal expense of the rich... would in general fall heaviest upon the rich; and in this sort of inequality there would not, perhaps, be anything very unreasonable."

So? Have you ever wondered why God WON'T even suggest a progressive tithe?

 

Actually most companies escape paying federal income taxes.

I wished to God that NONE of them had to pay federal income taxes. It is just a hidden tax ON THE CONSUMER.