Mocking The Poor

[The Nehor]

So tell me Saint what should we pay every one? 23 dollars an hour? What is the magic number. Is it 100 dollars an hour. IF not why not.

There is no magic number. It varies by location and the cost of living there.

What scares me are the people that want to abolish the minimum wage. The only reason anyone would want to abolish it is they want people to be paid less.

[why me]

What an other load. I am grateful that Mcdonalds employs a great deal of many people. Would these people that work there be better off if they didnt have that job? You guys have such a skewed view of the real world. What you are doing is mocking the poor and trying to take away what they have because you think Mcdonalds is a big bad corporation. 

The problem is that the poor do eat more carbohydrates because such food is cheaper. However we also have another problem. When one is poor in the US one tends to eat some comfort foods. And such comfort foods are also high in sugar and carbos also. Diet has much to do with health. The rich can go to good shops where health foods, natural foods etc are the norm. But the poor do not have such an option. Plus, education also has much to do with it. If one is poor and poorly educated, one may not exactly be up to speed on a healthy diet. Nor is the money available.

[thesometimesaint]

BS CFR.

 

http://www.examiner.com/article/mcdonald-s-tells-its-employees-not-to-eat-the-food-they-sell-to-customers

[The Nehor]

What an other load. I am grateful that Mcdonalds employs a great deal of many people. Would these people that work there be better off if they didnt have that job? You guys have such a skewed view of the real world. What you are doing is mocking the poor and trying to take away what they have because you think Mcdonalds is a big bad corporation.

No, actually McDonalds is a welfare sponge making profits through government subsidies. They do not pay their employees a living wage and the government provides food stamps, health benefits, and other supplements so their employees can survive. McDonalds benefits by their employees being able to live and not having to pay them enough to do so. Thanks to the government their employees are not disease ridden and having to shower once a week in a homeless shelter. The taxpayer makes up the difference and the company benefits.

I do not hate the poor. I hate that the shareholders are stealing from the taxpayer. I feel bad for the poor who have to surrender their dignity dealing with apathetic social workers and government employees trying to survive.

[The Nehor]

I think this is also a load of crap. See above.

No, it is not. I advise you to read up on what current studies show about the obesity epidemic.

[thesometimesaint]

So tell me Saint what should we pay every one? 23 dollars an hour? What is the magic number. Is it 100 dollars an hour. IF not why not.

 

Because adjusted for inflation that is what the current minimum wage would be.

 

There is no magic number. I have a hundred trillion dollar note from Zimbabwe. It won't even by a loaf of bread in Zimbabwe. The minimum wage was designed to provide basic food, shelter, and clothing for the lowest paid workers and their families. Anything less is a drain on the financial resources of everyone else, and IMNTBHO immoral. Why should my tax dollars go to places like McDonald's so they can underpay and mock their employees?

[Calm]

People are not fat because they can't get whole grain foods. What a load. I am sorry. They are not fat because they eat at mcdonalds. THey are fat because the caloric intake is greater than what calories they burn in a day. It really is not any more complex than that.

When food is low nutrient value, it is not satisfying and people will eat more of it, thus gaining weight due to eating mainly empty calories. There is also a difference in how the body metabolizes high carb to low carb, high carb tending to result in a greater appetite for carbs. Diet is not just a simple calorie intake/exercise equation. People who have poor sleep will more likely be obese, have diabetes and other illnesses as well.

If it was as simple as counting calories, I know a lot of people who would be their perfect clothing size.

Edited January 7, 2014 by calmoriah

[thesometimesaint]

What an other load. I am grateful that Mcdonalds employs a great deal of many people. Would these people that work there be better off if they didnt have that job? You guys have such a skewed view of the real world. What you are doing is mocking the poor and trying to take away what they have because you think Mcdonalds is a big bad corporation. 

 

I'm sure the slaves in the US South were just grateful to have a job. Again why should I be subsidizing places like McDonald's with my tax dollars so they can underpay their employees?

 

I'm neither mocking the poor employees of McDonald's nor the McDonald's Corp. itself. I simply don't want to subsidize them with my tax dollars.

 

I don't believe McDonald's is a big bad corporation. They are just like any other corporation that maximizes it bottom line. I simply don't want my tax dollars going to that bottom line.

 

Do not race bait.

[bluebell]

Because adjusted for inflation that is what the current minimum wage would be.

 

There is no magic number. I have a hundred trillion dollar note from Zimbabwe. It won't even by a loaf of bread in Zimbabwe. The minimum wage was designed to provide basic food, shelter, and clothing for the lowest paid workers and their families. Anything less is a drain on the financial resources of everyone else, and IMNTBHO immoral. Why should my tax dollars go to places like McDonald's so they can underpay and mock their employees?

 

Is there some documentation that says that that was the purpose of minimum wage?  I have never heard that before.

 

Raising minimum wage does not help anyone, because it just causes inflation.  In Bismarck ND they are paying fast food workers 12-15 dollars an hour right now.  However, a gallon of milk costs 4.86 and a two bedroom apartment costs 900 for one in the bad part of town.  In Minot, you can get 15-18 dollars an hour at some fast food restaurants.  A two bedroom apartment there will cost you $2000.

 

People are flooding into these towns because the wages are so high.  It's created a disaster in homelessness right now, because the higher wages do not translate into the ability to provide food and shelter for your family, and people do not realize that until they hop off the bus with no plan for how to survive.

 

We don't need to give people working a no skill job the same pay as those who work jobs requiring degrees and skills.  Those companies don't owe their employees a certain lifestyle.  They owe them a fair wage for the job the employee is doing.  

 

We need to help people get degrees and skills so they can get good paying jobs, and let fast food jobs go back to what they used to be-jobs for teenagers and college kids.

[The Nehor]

I don't vilify the people in corporations. I have known many CEOs and top officers in various companies. On the whole they were good people. The concept of the corporation strikes me as a bad thing. The owners (the stockholders) are idle (a scriptural no-no) and still acquiring money. They are represented by the board whose only objective is profit. The CEO and those that work with them answer solely to the profit motive. They sometimes have no interest in long-term viability. They just want to make some money and get out. The corporation is legally set up to insulate the owners and those in charge from losses. They are not held responsible. Corporations have been defined as an ingenius device for creating individual profit without individual responsibility. That is a fair assessment.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

There is no magic number. It varies by location and the cost of living there.

What scares me are the people that want to abolish the minimum wage. The only reason anyone would want to abolish it is they want people to be paid less.

You know Nehor you should do some study on why the minimum wage was first instituted. I think the minimumwage hurts poor people more than it helps them. Google Milton Freidman and watch his video's on the minimum wage. I think he is right on. What you have done is essentially regurgitate a democractic talking point. I don't want to abolish the MW because I think people should be paid less. I think that people should be paid what they are worth in terms of producitivity. It also allows the unskilled working entry level work that would not be available to them because they are priced out of the market. If you force companies to pay some one 3 dollars an hour for a job that should be 1 dollar an hour, what is an employer to do? Just higher the guy that is not qualified for the 3 bucks? Or do they seek out people that are qulified for that 3 dollars.

 

Also when your MW goes up your cost of living goes up. So you really are not helpling any one. You are just making it more expensive for everyone to get things. So far I doubt you could point me to one proven thing that the MW has helped "poor" people.

Edited January 7, 2014 by Mola Ram Suda Ram

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

I'm sure the slaves in the US South were just grateful to have a job. Again why should I be subsidizing places like McDonald's with my tax dollars so they can underpay their employees?

 

I'm neither mocking the poor employees of McDonald's nor the McDonald's Corp. itself. I simply don't want to subsidize them with my tax dollars.

 

I don't believe McDonald's is a big bad corporation. They are just like any other corporation that maximizes it bottom line. I simply don't want my tax dollars going to that bottom line.

1. I have said nothing about the slaves. It irrelevant to bring them up. And if you don't like subsidizing McDonalds don't talk to me about that. It also has nothing to do with anything I have said. It seems if you have an issue you should talk to your government. Fancy that the government getting in the way again.

 

2.Cool that is a different issue than what you brought up.

 

3.Ok point taken and I don't want people subsidized in any way either. I think we agree.

[Vance]

Now if we could just insure that everybody judged righteously.

So because they may fail we should take away their agency, right?

That plan has already been presented.

[The Nehor]

Is there some documentation that says that that was the purpose of minimum wage?  I have never heard that before.

 

Raising minimum wage does not help anyone, because it just causes inflation.  In Bismarck ND they are paying fast food workers 12-15 dollars an hour right now.  However, a gallon of milk costs 4.86 and a two bedroom apartment costs 900 for one in the bad part of town.  In Minot, you can get 15-18 dollars an hour at some fast food restaurants.  A two bedroom apartment there will cost you $2000.

 

People are flooding into these towns because the wages are so high.  It's created a disaster in homelessness right now, because the higher wages do not translate into the ability to provide food and shelter for your family, and people do not realize that until they hop off the bus with no plan for how to survive.

 

We don't need to give people working a no skill job the same pay as those who work jobs requiring degrees and skills.  Those companies don't owe their employees a certain lifestyle.  They owe them a fair wage for the job the employee is doing.  

 

We need to help people get degrees and skills so they can get good paying jobs, and let fast food jobs go back to what they used to be-jobs for teenagers and college kids.

 

Inflation is of course a problem. As to your example things are worse in the oil and gas industry. You will have workers making six figures on a temporary assignment in the middle of nowhere and they are barely getting by as there is no infrastructure. Most are living in trailers and campers and paying inflated costs for everything shipped out there. People rushing  to areas with high cost of living is an information problem. I was offered a job in San Francisco making 30% more money. I ran the numbers and found out what a lifestyle hit I would take doing that and turned it down.

 

The problem is that we can't relegate fast food jobs to high school and college kids. There aren't enough of them and most college kids are now interning and working other jobs if they can. Raising the skill level won't help either. It causes degree inflation. If I was entirely selfish I would want fewer people with degrees. Each person who has one lessens the value of mine. We are not at a point where we can have everyone in highly skilled jobs. There is still a market for janitors, hotel maids, trash collectors, warehouse workers, etc. If everyone has a degree it will just mean that people with degrees will do the job and not be able to pay their student loans. If the people who do these jobs currently have to exist (and they do) then the question is whether they should be paid enough to live or not. One writer once remarked that creating a device that measures the amount of work you do would put the lie to much of capitalism. I work harder then a McDonald's shift worker but even adding in the effort I put into my education am I really working 4 or 5 times as hard as they are and thus earning my pay based on merit? Is the guy making 10 million working over a hundred times as hard as I am? I doubt it.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

No, it is not. I advise you to read up on what current studies show about the obesity epidemic.

I advise you to look at recent stories in the news of people losing weight eating at Mcdonalds and nothing else. How does that square with your studies? Does it occour to you that it seems that most studies these days are very biased and have massive agenda's? I trust just about nothing these days.

 

Why are people fat Nehor? Because the eat McDonalds? That is the dumbest thing I have ever heard. They are fat because, and this will blow your mind, and I repeat, that caloric intake exceeds the calories burned in a day. And those calories turn into fat cells. That is all there is to it. I don't need some biased liberal study. I could eat salads all day and still be fat.

[Vance]

http://www.examiner.com/article/mcdonald-s-tells-its-employees-not-to-eat-the-food-they-sell-to-customers

First line in the article, "According to CNN on December 25".

Sorry, but CNN is NOT a credible source. You will need to do better, like provide an actual document FROM MCDONALDS!

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

No, actually McDonalds is a welfare sponge making profits through government subsidies. They do not pay their employees a living wage and the government provides food stamps, health benefits, and other supplements so their employees can survive. McDonalds benefits by their employees being able to live and not having to pay them enough to do so. Thanks to the government their employees are not disease ridden and having to shower once a week in a homeless shelter. The taxpayer makes up the difference and the company benefits.

I do not hate the poor. I hate that the shareholders are stealing from the taxpayer. I feel bad for the poor who have to surrender their dignity dealing with apathetic social workers and government employees trying to survive.

I think Mcdonalds does more to help the poor than you or the Saint. So take that. And you want to take it away. Lets close up Mcdonalds and see how well off those people that work there will fair. As to subsidies don't talk to me about that. Look to your corrupt government. Share holders stealing form the tax payer? Ha did you have a problem with Obama's first, second and third bail outs? Yes or no. If you don't dont freaking talk to me about Mcdonalds.

 

What I do know is that you have a massive disdain for the rich. I dunno why, I love the rich and I am glad they are here. They do great thinks for society.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

Is there some documentation that says that that was the purpose of minimum wage?  I have never heard that before.

 

Raising minimum wage does not help anyone, because it just causes inflation.  In Bismarck ND they are paying fast food workers 12-15 dollars an hour right now.  However, a gallon of milk costs 4.86 and a two bedroom apartment costs 900 for one in the bad part of town.  In Minot, you can get 15-18 dollars an hour at some fast food restaurants.  A two bedroom apartment there will cost you $2000.

 

People are flooding into these towns because the wages are so high.  It's created a disaster in homelessness right now, because the higher wages do not translate into the ability to provide food and shelter for your family, and people do not realize that until they hop off the bus with no plan for how to survive.

 

We don't need to give people working a no skill job the same pay as those who work jobs requiring degrees and skills.  Those companies don't owe their employees a certain lifestyle.  They owe them a fair wage for the job the employee is doing.  

 

We need to help people get degrees and skills so they can get good paying jobs, and let fast food jobs go back to what they used to be-jobs for teenagers and college kids.

Case in point BB. BTW sorry if I sounded snarkey earlier. I think you proved my point about the MW.

[thesometimesaint]

Can we trace this back to the Government "welfare" system? When you just dole out money for food rather than the food itself, don't you encourage this kind of diet (and laziness).

 

1. The money cost of storage and transportation to those that needed the food exceeded the money value of that food.

2. The diet of those living off of the limited diversity of foods in the excess commodities foods program was a poor diet, and lead to serious health problems.

3. By providing the money it not only provides for a better quality of diet, it pays the grocer thus helping him stay in business.

[Vance]

Because adjusted for inflation that is what the current minimum wage would be.

 

There is no magic number. I have a hundred trillion dollar note from Zimbabwe. It won't even by a loaf of bread in Zimbabwe. The minimum wage was designed to provide basic food, shelter, and clothing for the lowest paid workers and their families. Anything less is a drain on the financial resources of everyone else, and IMNTBHO immoral. Why should my tax dollars go to places like McDonald's so they can underpay and mock their employees?

Increasing the minimum wage IS ALSO A DRAIN ON THE FINANCIAL RESOURCES OF EVERYONE ELSE!!!! The costs of that higher wage IS ALWAYS PAST ON TO THE CONSUMER!!!!

Just like Business taxes.

[The Nehor]

I advise you to look at recent stories in the news of people losing weight eating at Mcdonalds and nothing else. How does that square with your studies? Does it occour to you that it seems that most studies these days are very biased and have massive agenda's? I trust just about nothing these days.

 

Why are people fat Nehor? Because the eat McDonalds? That is the dumbest thing I have ever heard. They are fat because, and this will blow your mind, and I repeat, that caloric intake exceeds the calories burned in a day. And those calories turn into fat cells. That is all there is to it. I don't need some biased liberal study. I could eat salads all day and still be fat.

 

A few anecdotes do not refute a study.

 

Of course it is calorie intake versus calories expended. It is not just McDonalds specifically. It is an example. Most fast food places do the same thing. They are calorie heavy without being as filling as that amount of calories should be. Companies spend a lot of money creating something appetizing but not filling enough to keep you from getting fries with it.

 

Of course it is possible to lose weight eating nothing but McDonalds. You just eat less of it and exercise a lot. It's possible but not likely for most people. The reason people are getting fatter is that there is more of this kind of stuff available and everyone is eating it. You said you are overweight. Why? Did you consciously decide that you would consume more calories then you burn off or did it just happen? If it just happened was part of it possibly due to the food options available?

 

I have to admit I laughed about "biased liberal studies". Guess I need to add dieticians and nutritionists to the ever-growing list of those affiliated with the evil liberal conspiracy. How do you sleep at night when everyone around you is conspiring against you?

[The Nehor]

Sorry, but CNN is NOT a credible source. You will need to do better, like provide an actual document FROM MCDONALDS!

 

They are also part of the reptilian liberal conspiracy? Crap....THEY ARE EVERYWHERE!!!!!!!!!

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

When food is low nutrient value, it is not satisfying and people will eat more of it, thus gaining weight due to eating mainly empty calories. There is also a difference in how the body metabolizes high carb to low carb, high carb tending to result in a greater appetite for carbs. Diet is not just a simple calorie intake/exercise equation. People who have poor sleep will more likely be obese, have diabetes and other illnesses as well.

If it was as simple as counting calories, I know a lot of people who would be their perfect clothing size.

The issue is that because people are poor they are fat because all they can do is affortd McDonalds. That has essentally been debunked. The main reason people get fat is because caloric intake is greater than the calories burned. There is a direct correlcation to that. Are there other things you can do to lose weight? Yes. But if you don't get your calroies in line don't expect to lose weight. Why don't you try it and see if it works. Eat nothing but salad and veggies. Eat 3,000 calories a day and tell me if you lose weight.  What do you think the out come will be?

 

OTOH, if I eat nothing but candy and stay with in 2,000 calories is that healthy? No. But healthy and obese are 2 different things. I am specifically talking about obesity. Not health. And I think that McDonalds has many things that are healthy. Yogurt parfaits, oatmeal, salads, charboirled chicken sandwiches. Even the occasion Big Mac or quarter pounder are not bad.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

A few anecdotes do not refute a study.

 

Of course it is calorie intake versus calories expended. It is not just McDonalds specifically. It is an example. Most fast food places do the same thing. They are calorie heavy without being as filling as that amount of calories should be. Companies spend a lot of money creating something appetizing but not filling enough to keep you from getting fries with it.

 

 

As some one who eats out this just is not the case. They are not creating "less filling" food so I will get the fries. In fact I generally don't even get fries and I am fine. I don't think there is any correlation here.

[mercyngrace]

Did you see the recent story about the guy that lost 37 pounds eating nothing but mcdonalds. So this old chestnut can die that people that a poor are fat because bad food is cheaper. I just don;'t buy that line anymore. I think most of it has to do with diet and sitting on ones own a$$. Case in point, me. I am over weight mainly because I don't work out I am not lazy, I work its just that I sit all day.

 

Mola,

 

I read that article. This fellow also added exercise to his lifestyle. Adding exercise is fairly easy when you work from 7:30 am to 2:30 pm and are a sports coach, literally on the field or in the weight room anyway, and with a wife who can share child-rearing and household duties.  I'm saying that as a former school teacher who had that level of support and who loved those hours. 

 

Try doing this as a single parent working an 8 hour FT job, PT or seasonal jobs as available to make ends meet, and running the house and childcare solo. When 24 hours is about 6 hours short of what you need to even keep up with the requirements of every day and you are getting zero sleep just to make sure the kids two sets of clothes are making it through the laundry in time for the kids to catch the bus first thing in the morning and the house is passably clean, bills paid, etc, adding a 45 minute walk to your drive thru diet is exponentially harder.

 

Oh and living on less sleep - that makes you gain weight also...

 

I'm not making excuses. I'm just saying things aren't so cut and dried. And then there's the depression spiral which comes from never having enough money to pay your bills and watching your kids go without or the mommy guilt of knowing that you aren't meeting your kids emotional needs or helping them with homework enough because you are almost literally, never home.Depression also packs on the pounds as it saps your will to wage a never ending fight against creditors, the landlord, and your case worker who has all but given up chasing the ex-husband who feels no inclination to pay the $38,000 he owes in back child support. 

 

I can describe this particular fall from middle class to poverty in great detail because it was my sister's life. Family members have been there in her case to offer support but many people don't have the kind of support that she has had over the years.

 

 

 

(Don't even get me started on genes. I have a 15 year old whose biggest exertion is an occasional bike ride and at 5'10" will probably not reach 120 lbs until he's in college. He could eat a 16 inch pizza and a box of ho-hos for every meal and not gain any weight. Trust me. He tried last summer. LOL. Again, it's just not a mathematical formula.)