Mocking The Poor

[The Nehor]

Increasing the minimum wage IS ALSO A DRAIN ON THE FINANCIAL RESOURCES OF EVERYONE ELSE!!!! The costs of that higher wage IS ALWAYS PAST ON TO THE CONSUMER!!!!

Just like Business taxes.

 

Yes they are but I do not see that as the ultimate evil. We have the lowest federal taxation rate on the middle class and above since before World War II and the lowest on the wealthy ever yet all we hear from some is how onerous their tax burden is. The greatest generation is crying over our lack of patriotism.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

They are also part of the reptilian liberal conspiracy? Crap....THEY ARE EVERYWHERE!!!!!!!!!

Rofl. CNN is not very credible. All you have done here is just say something funny and hope it sticks. No one watches CNN.

What has happened is that you have just tried to make Vance to look silly. Unfortunalty it is a tactic that comes right out of rules for radicals.  

Edited January 7, 2014 by Mola Ram Suda Ram

[Vance]

1. The money cost of storage and transportation to those that needed the food exceeded the money value of that food.

What a crock. The food IS ALREADY AVAILABLE locally.

2. The diet of those living off of the limited diversity of foods in the excess commodities foods program was a poor diet, and lead to serious health problems.

Well, why don't you apply the typical leftist solution and REMOVE CHOICE?? Make so their food stamps can ONLY BUY healthful food?

Basically, you are admitting that the current government program IS causing the problem.

3. By providing the money it not only provides for a better quality of diet, it pays the grocer thus helping him stay in business.

And the same would be true if the Government program bought the food locally and gave THAT to the poor.

[The Nehor]

The issue is that because people are poor they are fat because all they can do is affortd McDonalds. That has essentally been debunked. The main reason people get fat is because caloric intake is greater than the calories burned. There is a direct correlcation to that. Are there other things you can do to lose weight? Yes. But if you don't get your calroies in line don't expect to lose weight. Why don't you try it and see if it works. Eat nothing but salad and veggies. Eat 3,000 calories a day and tell me if you lose weight.  What do you think the out come will be?

 

OTOH, if I eat nothing but candy and stay with in 2,000 calories is that healthy? No. But healthy and obese are 2 different things. I am specifically talking about obesity. Not health. And I think that McDonalds has many things that are healthy. Yogurt parfaits, oatmeal, salads, charboirled chicken sandwiches. Even the occasion Big Mac or quarter pounder are not bad.

 

Actually McDonald's came in later as an example. The original argument was that unhealthier calorie-heavy food is cheaper then healthy food. This is, in fact, true.

 

 

As some one who eats out this just is not the case. They are not creating "less filling" food so I will get the fries. In fact I generally don't even get fries and I am fine. I don't think there is any correlation here.

 

No you aren't fine. You said you were overweight. Imagine how much heavier you would be if you did have fries.

[bluebell]

Increasing the minimum wage IS ALSO A DRAIN ON THE FINANCIAL RESOURCES OF EVERYONE ELSE!!!! The costs of that higher wage IS ALWAYS PAST ON TO THE CONSUMER!!!!

Just like Business taxes.

 

Minus all the shouting and exclamation points, i think you have a point.

 

I have friends who own small businesses.  When the minimum wage goes up, they raise their prices the exact same amount.  When the cost reaches a point where raising the prices of what they sell won't work (because they have reached the point where they would have to charge more than people would be willing to pay) they cut hours or have to let an employee go.

 

It's math, not magic.

 

Most small business owners that i know want to pay their employees well, and they do when they can because it makes for better employees.  That's not usually possible though because their profit margin is so small.  We have to remember that raising the minimum wage doesn't just affect huge corporations.

[Vance]

They are also part of the reptilian liberal conspiracy? Crap....THEY ARE EVERYWHERE!!!!!!!!!

I wasn't aware of the "reptilian" part.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

Mola,

 

I read that article. This fellow also added exercise to his lifestyle. Adding exercise is fairly easy when you work from 7:30 am to 2:30 pm and are a sports coach, literally on the field or in the weight room anyway, and with a wife who can share child-rearing and household duties.  I'm saying that as a former school teacher who had that level of support and who loved those hours. 

 

Try doing this as a single parent working an 8 hour FT job, PT or seasonal jobs as available to make ends meet, and running the house and childcare solo. When 24 hours is about 6 hours short of what you need to even keep up with the requirements of every day and you are getting zero sleep just to make sure the kids two sets of clothes are making it through the laundry in time for the kids to catch the bus first thing in the morning and the house is passably clean, bills paid, etc, adding a 45 minute walk to your drive thru diet is exponentially harder.

 

Oh and living on less sleep - that makes you gain weight also...

 

I'm not making excuses. I'm just saying things aren't so cut and dried. And then there's the depression spiral which comes from never having enough money to pay your bills and watching your kids go without or the mommy guilt of knowing that you aren't meeting your kids emotional needs or helping them with homework enough because you are almost literally, never home.Depression also packs on the pounds as it saps your will to wage a never ending fight against creditors, the landlord, and your case worker who has all but given up chasing the ex-husband who feels no inclination to pay the $38,000 he owes in back child support. 

 

I can describe this particular fall from middle class to poverty in great detail because it was my sister's life. Family members have been there in her case to offer support but many people don't have the kind of support that she has had over the years.

 

 

 

(Don't even get me started on genes. I have a 15 year old whose biggest exertion is an occasional bike ride and at 5'10" will probably not reach 120 lbs until he's in college. He could eat a 16 inch pizza and a box of ho-hos for every meal and not gain any weight. Trust me. He tried last summer. LOL. Again, it's just not a mathematical formula.)

Look, the point is that Mcdonalds doesn't make you fat That is all I have been commenting on. Is everyone reading more into my comments than intented? He had to work out. Everyone does. That is the point. I could eat only organically grown spinach and beans./ But if I eat more than 2000-2500 and never work out I am going to get fat. That is the main point. THe poor are typically fat because they don't work out. I am not going to say they are lazy. Many work long hard hours. Just that they don't work out. Their calories (were ever they get them from) are higher than what they burn. Oh well I am not going to beat this horse any more. I guess we will just have to agree to disagree on all this.

[The Nehor]

Rofl. CNN is not very credible. All you have done here is just say something funny and hope it sticks. No one watches CNN.

What has happened is that you have just tried to make Vance to look silly. Unfortunalty it is a tactic that comes right out of rules for radicals.  

 

While I agree that Journalism in general is in decline in America and some stations (cough) Fox (cough) are ridiculously one-sided I have not yet seen evidence to write off all news stories as pure fabrications.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

 

 

 

 

No you aren't fine. You said you were overweight. Imagine how much heavier you would be if you did have fries.

I don't want to imagine that. I am going to lose this weight. I do need to make some diet choices. Mostly less carbs and cut the soda. Then I will start to work out again. I just hate working out.

[Vance]

That's not usually possible though because their profit margin is so small.

OR their taxes are TOO high.

It is impossible to tax you way into prosperity.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

While I agree that Journalism in general is in decline in America and some stations (cough) Fox (cough) are ridiculously one-sided I have not yet seen evidence to write off all news stories as pure fabrications.

I never suggested other wise that "all news stories as pure fabrications." I think just looking at teh rating will let you know if people find CNN credible. They have really bad ratings. That to me suggest that people are not buying what they are selling. Some of there stuff is good. But if you can't even trace the foot note to something offical from McDonald's am I to just take CCN's word for it?

 

You know Nehor, your all right. You do manage to make me laugh at somethings and you do bring up some interesting points.

Edited January 7, 2014 by Mola Ram Suda Ram

[The Nehor]

I never suggested other wise that "all news stories as pure fabrications." I think just looking at teh rating will let you know if people find CNN credible. They have really bad ratings. That to me suggest that people are not buying what they are selling. Some of there stuff is good. But if you can't even trace the foot note to something offical from McDonald's am I to just take CCN's word for it?

 

You know Nehor, your all right. You do manage to make me laugh at somethings and you do bring up some interesting points.

 

My opinion on news being rated by viewers and needing validation and participation from viewers is best summed up in this clip.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oP-rkzJ6yZw

[Tacenda]

I advise you to look at recent stories in the news of people losing weight eating at Mcdonalds and nothing else. How does that square with your studies? Does it occour to you that it seems that most studies these days are very biased and have massive agenda's? I trust just about nothing these days.

Why are people fat Nehor? Because the eat McDonalds? That is the dumbest thing I have ever heard. They are fat because, and this will blow your mind, and I repeat, that caloric intake exceeds the calories burned in a day. And those calories turn into fat cells. That is all there is to it. I don't need some biased liberal study. I could eat salads all day and still be fat.

A morning show featured a teacher that was overweight and wanted to try an experiment using himself as the guinea pig. He did this with his class. He only ate at Mcdonalds and ran everyday for 45 min. And lost 4 inches and I think, 37 lbs. But had he not run everyday, I can almost guarantee he would have gained or maintained the weight. So you're right about burning calories. I think that some who are overweight have issues with depression or heredity, both can affect their metabolism. And junk food doesn't help or fast food!!!

[Vance]

Yes they are but I do not see that as the ultimate evil. We have the lowest federal taxation rate on the middle class and above since before World War II and the lowest on the wealthy ever yet all we hear from some is how onerous their tax burden is.

That is a crock.

Both Reagan and JF Kennedy PROVED that lowering the tax burden (because it is onerously high) spurs the economy and actually increases revenue to the government.

The greatest generation is crying over our lack of patriotism.

True. Socialism is the opposite of American patriotism.

[Vance]

I simply don't want to subsidize them with my tax dollars.

 A leftist complaining about government subsidization, OH THE IRONY!!!

[Vance]

Right now the cheapest food is heavy on calories and low on nutrients. Thus, they grow fat.

Or just maybe they EAT TOO MUCH!! Tell me do carrots and celery cost more that soda pop and potato chips? I think not.

[thesometimesaint]

I think Mcdonalds does more to help the poor than you or the Saint. So take that. And you want to take it away. Lets close up Mcdonalds and see how well off those people that work there will fair. As to subsidies don't talk to me about that. Look to your corrupt government. Share holders stealing form the tax payer? Ha did you have a problem with Obama's first, second and third bail outs? Yes or no. If you don't dont freaking talk to me about Mcdonalds.

 

What I do know is that you have a massive disdain for the rich. I dunno why, I love the rich and I am glad they are here. They do great thinks for society.

 

Then you think wrong. I'm retired so don't have employees. The people that I have do some work for me I pay well. I even tip the waiters and waitresses well.

Take what way from McDonald's? Their right to be in business? Nope. Their ability to make a profit? Nope. The giving of my tax dollars to them so they can underpay their employees? Yes. Morality aside. Every penny of my tax dollars going to a for profit private corporation is a penny less to the general welfare of my country.

 

Are their corrupt government officials? Yes, and they should be prosecuted to the greatest extent the law allows. At a very minimum we shouldn't vote for them.

I didn't vote for Obama. I voted for the gals in another political party.

 

What bailouts are those? The bailouts of the banks and the auto companies was begun under Bush.

 

I don't do disdain for anyone because of their economic class. I am required to see if what anyone does meets the secular and sectarian goals I have.

[Vance]

While I agree that Journalism in general is in decline in America and some stations (cough) Fox (cough) are ridiculously one-sided I have not yet seen evidence to write off all news stories as pure fabrications.

LOL!!! Fox is far more balanced than the rest of the so called mainstream media.

[bluebell]

Inflation is of course a problem. As to your example things are worse in the oil and gas industry. You will have workers making six figures on a temporary assignment in the middle of nowhere and they are barely getting by as there is no infrastructure. Most are living in trailers and campers and paying inflated costs for everything shipped out there. People rushing  to areas with high cost of living is an information problem. I was offered a job in San Francisco making 30% more money. I ran the numbers and found out what a lifestyle hit I would take doing that and turned it down.

 

The problem is that we can't relegate fast food jobs to high school and college kids. There aren't enough of them and most college kids are now interning and working other jobs if they can. Raising the skill level won't help either. It causes degree inflation. If I was entirely selfish I would want fewer people with degrees. Each person who has one lessens the value of mine. We are not at a point where we can have everyone in highly skilled jobs. There is still a market for janitors, hotel maids, trash collectors, warehouse workers, etc. If everyone has a degree it will just mean that people with degrees will do the job and not be able to pay their student loans. If the people who do these jobs currently have to exist (and they do) then the question is whether they should be paid enough to live or not. One writer once remarked that creating a device that measures the amount of work you do would put the lie to much of capitalism. I work harder then a McDonald's shift worker but even adding in the effort I put into my education am I really working 4 or 5 times as hard as they are and thus earning my pay based on merit? Is the guy making 10 million working over a hundred times as hard as I am? I doubt it.

 

It's not exactly true that things are worse in the oil and gas industry.  

 

Things are worse in places where there is a high demand for workers, and right now in ND that happens to correlate with oil and gas.  It's not that way everywhere that oil and gas is however.  My husband works in the oil and gas industry in Utah, makes a very good wage at his white collar job (very good, and with only a two year degree), and it's full time and stable.  My father has worked in the oil and gas industry in Wyoming for over 30 years, no degree necessary, makes very good money and belongs to a very stable company that treats it's employees like gold.  And we both get to live in places with fairly low cost of living, despite our connection to that kind of job.

 

As to the issue at hand though, i wasn't suggesting that we regulate fast food to high school kids, but was noting that a change in economy and an increase in jobs for adults could return fast food jobs to what they were in the past.  When i was in high school, it was practically unheard of to see an adult working at one of these places in the town i grew up in.  Now, it's practically impossible for high school kids to get jobs at these restaurants because they are competing with so many adults. And since these jobs were never really meant to support families in the past, it's not really a surprise that they don't support families right now, even though the change in our economy has put more pressure on them to do so.

 

And i get what you are saying about degrees, and i agree with it.  My point though isn't to make every job need a degree.  My point was that there are careers which are more capable of sustaining a person or a family, careers that require training because of the nature of the work.

 

Were you aware that collecting sewage or garbage actually pays fairly well (relatively speaking) at around 17 dollars an hour to start in Billings MT for example, but they require that someone has a CDL-B license?  This is a license that is very easy to get with minimal training, not that expensive (about $100 last time i checked), but that a lot of people aren't qualified for simply because they don't have anyone who can help them get one.  In Wyoming, you can get a job driving school buses that pays $20 dollars a hour, but again, it requires this license.  

 

People don't realize the number of jobs out there that pay decently, and don't require a four year degree, but do require some kind of training.  And when they don't know about them, and don't know how to get them, it makes it impossible to do so.  I'm just saying, society can help with this (and there are a lot of organizations that already do) and that putting energy into helping people get these kinds of jobs, in my opinion, will service society a lot better than trying to raise the minimum wage for unskilled labor every year.

Edited January 7, 2014 by bluebell

[thesometimesaint]

Increasing the minimum wage IS ALSO A DRAIN ON THE FINANCIAL RESOURCES OF EVERYONE ELSE!!!! The costs of that higher wage IS ALWAYS PAST ON TO THE CONSUMER!!!!

Just like Business taxes.

 

There has never been a case since the minimum wage was first implemented where that happened.

 

Business taxes go to pay for the services those businesses use. Are you saying that business should be able to just steal those services?

[The Nehor]

That is a crock.

Both Reagan and JF Kennedy PROVED that lowering the tax burden (because it is onerously high) spurs the economy and actually increases revenue to the government.

True. Socialism is the opposite of American patriotism.

 

Then why did Reagan sign off on 11 tax increases? And no, that is not a proven fact that happens every time you do it. At certain levels and in certain conditions it sometimes works. If it were absolutely true in all conditions the government should abolish taxes and then they would collect an infinite amount of taxes.

 

Oddly, what the Right calls socialism was the status quo when they were around. For some reason they shifted the definition.

 

 

 A leftist complaining about government subsidization, OH THE IRONY!!!

 

A rightist not complaining about government subsidiziation because it is subsidizing a corporation? Hmmmmmmm.......

 

See, I can play that game too. Oh, and I am politically more towards the Right.

 

 

Or just maybe they EAT TOO MUCH!! Tell me do carrots and celery cost more that soda pop and potato chips? I think not.

 

 If you price them by calorie per dollar the soda and potato chips are probably the better deal. You'd have to buy a large amount of carrots to live off of them and celery is almost calorie neutral. It takes as much or more calories to digest then the human body can extract from it.

[thesometimesaint]

LOL!!! Fox is far more balanced than the rest of the so called mainstream media.

 

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022923872

[MorningStar]

People are not fat because they can't get whole grain foods. What a load. I am sorry. They are not fat because they eat at mcdonalds. THey are fat because the caloric intake is greater than what calories they burn in a day. It really is not any more complex than that.

Interesting because I lost 35 pounds the last few months by cutting out refined sugar, white rice, white pasta, white bread, etc.  I weighed myself every day and during the few times I had those foods as my only option, I gained.  Another day I pig out on steak with sauteed mushrooms, huge salad with bacon and my homemade vinaigrette, cheese, summer sausage, etc. and I would wake up 2 pounds lighter.  Cutting calories has never worked for me, but for some reason I can eat whatever I want if it's not those particular foods.  Dave's Killer bread is killing my wallet though!

[Vance]

Then you think wrong. I'm retired so don't have employees. The people that I have do some work for me I pay well. I even tip the waiters and waitresses well.

Goodie for you. Does that automatically give you the high moral ground or something?

Take what way from McDonald's? Their right to be in business? Nope. Their ability to make a profit? Nope. The giving of my tax dollars to them so they can underpay their employees?

How, exactly are YOUR tax dollars being given to them "so they can underpay their employees?

AND, if their employees are underpaid, WHY don't they find another job that pays better?

Every penny of my tax dollars going to a for profit private corporation is a penny less to the general welfare of my country.

What a crock!!

The food in this country is brought to you by for profit private corporations.

The clothing in this country is brought to you by for profit private corporations.

The energy in this country is brought to you by for profit private corporations.

The medicine in this country is brought to you by for profit private corporations.

 

What bailouts are those? The bailouts of the banks and the auto companies was begun under Bush.

And increased under Obama.

 

I am required to see if what anyone does meets the secular and sectarian goals I have.

So, God made you the overseer of others? Has He let them know?

[bluebell]

Or just maybe they EAT TOO MUCH!! Tell me do carrots and celery cost more that soda pop and potato chips? I think not.

 

They do for the calorie intake.

 

And when you are hungry, that's what's important. 

 

Like i said, pretend you have a hungry child who will get to eat one meal for the next 24 hours.  Are you going to give him a double cheeseburger and fries for $5, or are you going to buy him a small bag of baby carrots?