Anthon Transcript Verified As Reformed Egyptian?

[teddyaware]

Wondering if anyone on this board has heard of one Daniel Deleanu, PhD, and his two volume series on Reformed Egyptian Grammar? In these two volumes, Deleanu claims to have discovered the written characters on the Anthon Transcript are authentic and that the Anthon Transcript is nothing less than another Rosetta Stone. All this and yet Mr. Deleanu is said to be non-LDS, with no affiliation whatsoever to the LDS Church. Deleanu has published later additional volumes on the same subject, all the while continuing to make the claim that the Anthon Transcript is authentic and reliable.
 
The following paragraph is a description of the contents of volume 1 of Deleanu's "Reformed Egyptian Grammar." Would love to get to the bottom of this...
 
"The first volume of the "Reformed Egyptian Grammar" by Daniel Deleanu, PhD, is an objective study of the original language of the Book of Mormon, which he has reconstructed starting from his own "Rosetta Stone," namely the controversial "Anthon Transcript," which he proves to be absolutely authentic, and the so-called "Ferrini Lead Fragment," a tiny piece from a scroll found in Israel that once belonged to Bruce Ferrini, the antiquities dealer who put on the market the Gospel of Judas. Dr. Deleanu clearly evinces Reformed Egyptian's Semitic roots and, through etymological research, its connections with Paleo-Hebrew, with the script it borrowed from Egypt, and, possibly, with several Mesoamerican languages. Dr. Deleanu, who holds a doctorate magna cum laude in philology (the study of ancient languages and literatures) is an independent researcher who is not affiliated in any way with the LDS Church or any other religious institution."

Here is a link to an advert for the book: www.alldiscountbooks.net/_1300343117_i_.html‎

Edited December 30, 2013 by teddyaware

[mormonnewb]

The book appears to be self-published.  The publisher is Lulu.com.

 

Given the exacting nature of the work involved and the extraordinary claims made, it is hard for me to give it any credence given that it may not have been vetted in any manner prior to publication.

 

By the way, this isn't an argument against a testimony of the BofM.  I'm just saying that I'm not sure how this book could add to (or subtract from) an existing testimony.

Edited December 30, 2013 by mormonnewb

[strappinglad]

Off the top of my head , the Anton manuscript isn't a big enough sample to act as a Rosetta stone. Besides, we have no idea what the English was for its translation, or the Egyptian for that matter. I will, however, give it a perusal when the opportunity arises.

[Palerider]

There is so little information available regarding this and what is is very sketchy.

 

I'm saying it's bogus until somebody proves me wrong.

[teddyaware]

There is so little information available regarding this and what is is very sketchy.

 

I'm saying it's bogus until somebody proves me wrong.

You haven't even read one page of just one of the volumes Deleanu's series on the subject and yet you already know enough to say his work is bogus. I wonder how many non-members have said the same thing about the Book of Mormon? Without reading it, they already "know" it's a fake...

[Calm]

He has been extremely busy according to his lists of publications. That is a bit of a red flag to me. Too many things he is expert at, so to speak. Need to find more, of course but that he has not attracted attention among the educated in the field even among LDS is another.

If it is the same one, he teaches at a private high school in Canada, Cambridge Academy.

There is no statement on where he got his doctorate from even though he rated "with honours" is mentioned, another red flag.

I have no background in the field so can't judge if the two pages given in one of his books make sense, but if the Ferrini fragment is too short to be deciphered how can it function as a Rosetta Stone?

Edited December 30, 2013 by calmoriah

[Storm Rider]

The responses are interesting and says more about us than about this individual's work. 

 

As a matter of course I also tend to discount these kinds of claims regardless of their topic. Let's assume for a moment that his work is accurate and reliable; does it prove anything to those who seek faith? 

 

I acknowledge that some people have difficult moving from the arena of reason to the arena of faith. Their pursuit of faith is limited or nonexistent; if there is no evidence there is not moving from reason leaving the individual to be a scientific atheist. 

This fellow is professing to have researched a topic and found supporting evidence. It could be of interest to LDS, but it is not something upon which to build a testimony.

[Robert F. Smith]

Palerider, on 29 Dec 2013 - 11:00 PM, said:

There is so little information available regarding this and what is is very sketchy.
 
I'm saying it's bogus until somebody proves me wrong.

You haven't even read one page of just one of the volumes Deleanu's series on the subject and yet you already know enough to say his work is bogus. I wonder how many non-members have said the same thing about the Book of Mormon? Without reading it, they already "know" it's a fake...

On the contrary, Teddy.  Palerider is rightly skeptical until something more substantial appears.  There are a number of Mormon and non-Mormon scholars available who can analyze any claimed decipherment.  Until such analyses appear, there is no reason to get excited about such claims.

 

Meantime, how about some curriculum vitae details about Deleanu?

[Calm]

The person quoted as a vague reference in the book died in 2007 while the author only purchased the fragment in 2005 while the book was published in 2012. The reference does not mention what she is referring to or the context of the quote.

[Robert F. Smith]

Off the top of my head , the Anton manuscript isn't a big enough sample to act as a Rosetta stone. Besides, we have no idea what the English was for its translation, or the Egyptian for that matter. I will, however, give it a perusal when the opportunity arises.

The distinctive thing about the Rosetta Stone was that it was a trilingual inscription, and one of the languages (Greek) well known to scholars.

 

So far as we know, the so-called "Anthon Transcript" has no other available translation or transcription, and must be deciphered on modern principles of Egyptology aided by computer.  If it is in Egyptian, reformed or not, the sample size may in fact be adequate.

[Calm]

Meantime, how about some curriculum vitae details about Deleanu?

No specifics are given to be able to check and the only listings I can find on him are his books and a possible high school teacher at a private academy with the same name and also with a claimed doctorate.

He is also going around on minor sites advertising his own books apparently:

http://www.mormonprophecy.com/?page_id=27

Maybe he will notice this and stop by to defend his claims.

I can find no other mention of the "Ferrini lead fragment" and its only claim to authenticity is the dealer he bought it from who is connected with the Gospel of Judas....but whether that establishes as an authority or not???

And apparently the collector went bankrupt in 2006:

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2006/04/0420_060420_judas.html

Ferrini does not seem like a reliable reference:

Tchacos endured another failed sale attempt later that year, this time to U.S. dealer Bruce Ferrini.

" took possession of the gospel in return for two postdated checks.

Tchacos endured another failed sale attempt later that year, this time to U.S. dealer Bruce Ferrini.

Ferrini took possession of the gospel in return for two postdated checks.

In the following months Tchacos became increasingly convinced that Ferrini did not have sufficient funds and engaged several prominent antiquities dealers to pressure Ferrini to return the codex to her.

Finally, Tchacos transferred the codex to the Maecenas Foundation for Ancient Art, based in Basel, Switzerland."

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2006/04/0406_060406_gospel_2.html

So he was in possession for a short time due to fraud and may have retained without permission some fragments of it.

Edited December 30, 2013 by calmoriah

[The Nehor]

You haven't even read one page of just one of the volumes Deleanu's series on the subject and yet you already know enough to say his work is bogus. I wonder how many non-members have said the same thing about the Book of Mormon? Without reading it, they already "know" it's a fake...

 

I'm not sure it is a fake. I am hovering around 99.9999873% sure.

 

Now having read the preview on Amazon you can add a few more nines in there.

[Calm]

Another of his works...by the way only one review of all his books and that is on Islamic Jesus....this seems an ultimate exercise in self assurance of one's wisdom:

http://www.amazon.com/Principles-Logosophism-Daniel-Deleanu/dp/0595654908/ref=sr_1_33?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1388388234&sr=1-33

Please take a look inside.

[Calm]

He is also the only author for Buxton University Press...Buxton University itself according to wiki was an online, on demand degree mill.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buxton_University

I have yet to find one positive sure thing associated with this author and a number of red flags....not impressing me.

Edited December 30, 2013 by calmoriah

[The Nehor]

Another of his works...by the way only one review of all his books and that is on Islamic Jesus....this seems an ultimate exercise in self assurance of one's wisdom:

http://www.amazon.com/Principles-Logosophism-Daniel-Deleanu/dp/0595654908/ref=sr_1_33?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1388388234&sr=1-33

Please take a look inside.

 

Dunning-Kruger effect in action. There is no one more self-assured of their own understanding then a total idiot.

[Robert F. Smith]

The person quoted as a vague reference in the book died in 2007 while the author only purchased the fragment in 2005 while the book was published in 2012. The reference does not mention what she is referring to or the context of the quote.

I see what you mean.  Professor Israelit-Groll died in Dec 2007.  So when did she have an opportunity to give a testimonial which no one else has heard about?

 

Where was Deleanu educated?  He has used Buxton University Press for some of his books, but that school is a notorious diploma mill selling instant degrees online.

 

He apparently claims to know and use the following languages:  Buddhist Hybrid Sanskrit, Pali, ancient Egyptian, Demotic Egyptian, ancient Chinese, ancient Japanese, Sumerian, Proto-Irish (Ogham), Isthmian Proto-Zoque, Manichaean Syriac, Paleo-Elamite, and Early Gandhari in Kharoshthi, Proto-German (Runic), Wisdom Language, Persian, Syriac, Early Aramaic, Arabic, Old Arabic, Old Turkish, Early Meroitic, Ancient Nubian, Proto-Mayan, Assyro-Babylonian, ancient (paleo) Hebrew, early Mandaic, Cree, French, Mongolian, logosophistic English, etc.

 

I haven't managed to count the dozens of books he has published, but most are very short, 90 - 200 pages, and sell at exorbitant rates for paperbacks with perfect binding.  The LogoStar Press of Toronto often republishes out-of-copyright books, and many of Deleanu's books are republications and retranslations of classic works.  A good deal of money can be made that way, i.e., saturating the market with repackaged old books.

 

Deleanu apparently lives in North York, Ontario, Canada, with his wife Codrutza Deleanu, and two daughters.  Two Cambridge Academies are in nearby Markham and Mississauga, Ontario, so maybe he does teach in one of them.

Edited December 30, 2013 by Robert F. Smith

[maklelan]

Deleanu also has produced a critical edition of the Jordan Lead Codices and a translation, which are both pure and utter nonsense. He's a charlatan. Full stop. 

[cdowis]

I wonder if he had anything to do with the translation of the sealed portion of the Book of Mormon that was published a few years ago.  His knowledge of Reformed Egyptian would have been useful.

[teddyaware]

I'm not "excited" about Mr. Deleanu's books on the Anthon Transcript. I'm simply curious about these books and that's why I posted here in order to learn if any of the knowledgeable participants on this board knew anything about him and his work. His books supposedly verify the authenticity of the writing of ancient appearance found on the Anthon Transcript, and therefore it would seem likely such an "earth shattering revelation" would have come to the attention of some LDS scholars by now. 

 

The fact is that he has somehow produced more than two books based on the Anthon Transcript. So just out of simple curiosity, it would be interesting, at least to me, to know what it is he has to say in those books. I was hoping someone on here might have already read them and knew of his approach and methodology on the subject of Reformed Egyptian.      

Edited December 30, 2013 by teddyaware

[maklelan]

I'm not "excited" about Mr. Deleanu's books on the Anthon Transcript. I'm simply curious about these books and that's why I posted here in order to learn if any of the knowledgeable participants on this board knew anything about him and his work. His books supposedly verify the authenticity of the writing of ancient appearance found on the Anthon Transcript, and therefore it would seem likely such an "earth shattering revelation" would have come to the attention of some LDS scholars by now. 

 

The fact is that he has somehow produced more than two books based on the Anthon Transcript. So just out of simple curiosity, it would be interesting, at least to me, to know what it is he has to say in those books. I was hoping someone on here might have already read them and knew of his approach and methodology on the subject of Reformed Egyptian.      

 

His methodology is to conjure up things in his head that have no relationship to reality, and then write them down as if they did. It's hokum. 

[teddyaware]

His methodology is to conjure up things in his head that have no relationship to reality, and then write them down as if they did. It's hokum.

 

So then I've found someone who's read Deleanu's works on Reformed Egyptian? 

Edited December 30, 2013 by teddyaware

[maklelan]

So then I've found someone who's read Deleanu's works on Reformed Egyptian? 

 

I've read portions of it (I've read more of his Jordan Codices stuff than his Reformed Egyptian stuff). I would never waste my time reading anything he has written cover-to-cover. 

[thesometimesaint]

You haven't even read one page of just one of the volumes Deleanu's series on the subject and yet you already know enough to say his work is bogus. I wonder how many non-members have said the same thing about the Book of Mormon? Without reading it, they already "know" it's a fake...

 

I partially agree with Palerider. I'm willing to withhold judgment until it is corroborated by more sources.  But am skeptical.

[bcuzbcuz]

I'm not "excited" about Mr. Deleanu's books on the Anthon Transcript. I'm simply curious about these books and that's why I posted here in order to learn if any of the knowledgeable participants on this board knew anything about him and his work. His books supposedly verify the authenticity of the writing of ancient appearance found on the Anthon Transcript, and therefore it would seem likely such an "earth shattering revelation" would have come to the attention of some LDS scholars by now. 

 

The fact is that he has somehow produced more than two books based on the Anthon Transcript. So just out of simple curiosity, it would be interesting, at least to me, to know what it is he has to say in those books. I was hoping someone on here might have already read them and knew of his approach and methodology on the subject of Reformed Egyptian.

You can find excerpts from 5 books by Deleanu on Scribd, although the complete books are not available from that source. His name is on RateMyTeacher, where he gets a 100% rating, but anyone who has used that site knows that a negative rating can be easily adjusted by going in yourself and "adjusting" your evaluation. The write-up on two of his books say he has studied ancient Hebrew for two decades and studied ancient Chinese for two decades. He has founded his own political party that has successfully contributed to world peace and he has also published two cookbooks.. I don't know about you, but he's definitely my hero.

[The Nehor]

So then I've found someone who's read Deleanu's works on Reformed Egyptian?

I know little about Egyptian and read two pages of the book. I have learned all I need to know. If the rest of it is a masterpiece I will never know.