thatjimguy Posted December 8, 2013 Posted December 8, 2013 I would like to get help into something I ran into today. In my religion class at BYU-I, I was reading the institute manual for the New Testament when I came across this. (44-7) Philippians 2:12. “Work Out Your Own Salvation with Fear and Trembling”“An outstanding doctrine of the Church is that each individual carries the responsibility to work out his own salvation, and salvation is a process of gradual development. The Church does not accept the doctrine that a mere murmured belief in Jesus Christ is all that is necessary. A man may say he believes, but if he does nothing to make that belief or faith a moving power to do, to accomplish, to produce soul growth, his professing will avail him nothing. ‘Work out your salvation’ is an exhortation to demonstrate by activity, by thoughtful, obedient effort the reality of faith. But this must be done with a consciousness that absolute dependence upon self may produce pride and weakness that will bring failure. With ‘fear and trembling’ we should seek the strength and grace of God for inspiration to obtain the final victory.“To work out one’s salvation is not to sit idly by dreaming and yearning for God miraculously to thrust bounteous blessings into our laps. It is to perform daily, hourly, momentarily, if necessary, the immediate task or duty at hand, and to continue happily in such performance as the years come and go, leaving the fruits of such labors either for self or for others to be bestowed as a just and beneficent Father may determine.” (David O. McKay in CR, Apr. 1957, p. 7.) Doesn't this eliminate all the idea of God's interference in our lives when we pray for hope for a blessing? All this seems to say to me is just like the atheists follow, "we are on our own...do it yourself". What is the point of praying if God won't help us anyway? Praying only for strength seems like an affirmation. I am sure that this isn't the case, but I sure ain't seeing the end of the rainbow on this one and I lost my rose colored glasses a while ago. Any help is appriciated.
BCSpace Posted December 8, 2013 Posted December 8, 2013 Doesn't this eliminate all the idea of God's interference in our lives when we pray for hope for a blessing? All this seems to say to me is just like the atheists follow, "we are on our own...do it yourself". What is the point of praying if God won't help us anyway? Praying only for strength seems like an affirmation. I would say that receiving a blessing or help through prayer because of our faithfulness is part of the work in working out our salvation. As a side note: Also add to Philippians 2:12 the complimentary verses of Philippians 3:11-14. It might read better in a translation other than the KJV, but essentially Paul is claiming that he's not saved yet (hasn't attained). Add also to your repertoire, but unrelated to this particular subject, Philippians 2:5-6 wherein we see that it is no sin to think that we can be equal to God (potentially a whole other thread). Complimentary to that is Philippians 3:21 and so on... Philippians is a great epistle.
Freedom Posted December 8, 2013 Posted December 8, 2013 You seem to have made too much of a leap. An effective teacher compels the student to work out the problems because this is the most effective way to learn. Those who take the challenge to figure it out receive guidance along the way. Those who do not take the challenge are not entitled to any help. If you want Gods help, you need to obey the commandments. There is no miracle until after a trial of your faith. 2
janderich Posted December 8, 2013 Posted December 8, 2013 (edited) Doesn't this eliminate all the idea of God's interference in our lives when we pray for hope for a blessing? All this seems to say to me is just like the atheists follow, "we are on our own...do it yourself". What is the point of praying if God won't help us anyway? Praying only for strength seems like an affirmation. I am sure that this isn't the case, but I sure ain't seeing the end of the rainbow on this one and I lost my rose colored glasses a while ago. Any help is appriciated. I think verse 13 is critical and must be included in any reference. It says, "For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure." This verse is a continuation of the thought in verse 12. The NIV simply puts a comma between v12 and v13, "continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you to will and to act according to his good purpose". So yes, work out your own salvation but turn to God who is within you giving you the desire and the power to do his will. I have found some challenges that are so difficult for me that I cannot, out of sheer force of will overcome them. However, there is a different route. First, I recognize that I, as a natural man, cannot overcome my difficulties. Second, I humble myself before God and plead with him to strengthen me. Third, I listen to the spirit that is within me and find the peace and harmony within to guide me through the challenge. If I do these things I have seen personal miracles occur. What I could not do before becomes almost second nature. I think this is what Paul means. Edited December 8, 2013 by janderich 1
CV75 Posted December 8, 2013 Posted December 8, 2013 I would like to get help into something I ran into today. In my religion class at BYU-I, I was reading the institute manual for the New Testament when I came across this. (44-7) Philippians 2:12. “Work Out Your Own Salvation with Fear and Trembling”“An outstanding doctrine of the Church is that each individual carries the responsibility to work out his own salvation, and salvation is a process of gradual development. The Church does not accept the doctrine that a mere murmured belief in Jesus Christ is all that is necessary. A man may say he believes, but if he does nothing to make that belief or faith a moving power to do, to accomplish, to produce soul growth, his professing will avail him nothing. ‘Work out your salvation’ is an exhortation to demonstrate by activity, by thoughtful, obedient effort the reality of faith. But this must be done with a consciousness that absolute dependence upon self may produce pride and weakness that will bring failure. With ‘fear and trembling’ we should seek the strength and grace of God for inspiration to obtain the final victory.“To work out one’s salvation is not to sit idly by dreaming and yearning for God miraculously to thrust bounteous blessings into our laps. It is to perform daily, hourly, momentarily, if necessary, the immediate task or duty at hand, and to continue happily in such performance as the years come and go, leaving the fruits of such labors either for self or for others to be bestowed as a just and beneficent Father may determine.” (David O. McKay in CR, Apr. 1957, p. 7.) Doesn't this eliminate all the idea of God's interference in our lives when we pray for hope for a blessing? All this seems to say to me is just like the atheists follow, "we are on our own...do it yourself". What is the point of praying if God won't help us anyway? Praying only for strength seems like an affirmation. I am sure that this isn't the case, but I sure ain't seeing the end of the rainbow on this one and I lost my rose colored glasses a while ago. Any help is appriciated. We can pray for help and strength without having the attitude “to sit idly by dreaming and yearning for God miraculously to thrust bounteous blessings into our laps.” To work out our salvation is only part of the arrangement; the other part is to pray for help and strength, and another is to receive the needed grace. But since the commentary was on Philippians 2:12, naturally the focus would be on that narrow scope. (And I don't think we need rose colored glasses, nor shades, but just enough clarity to see through the glass darkly!) 1
bluebell Posted December 8, 2013 Posted December 8, 2013 I would like to get help into something I ran into today. In my religion class at BYU-I, I was reading the institute manual for the New Testament when I came across this. (44-7) Philippians 2:12. “Work Out Your Own Salvation with Fear and Trembling”“An outstanding doctrine of the Church is that each individual carries the responsibility to work out his own salvation, and salvation is a process of gradual development. The Church does not accept the doctrine that a mere murmured belief in Jesus Christ is all that is necessary. A man may say he believes, but if he does nothing to make that belief or faith a moving power to do, to accomplish, to produce soul growth, his professing will avail him nothing. ‘Work out your salvation’ is an exhortation to demonstrate by activity, by thoughtful, obedient effort the reality of faith. But this must be done with a consciousness that absolute dependence upon self may produce pride and weakness that will bring failure. With ‘fear and trembling’ we should seek the strength and grace of God for inspiration to obtain the final victory.“To work out one’s salvation is not to sit idly by dreaming and yearning for God miraculously to thrust bounteous blessings into our laps. It is to perform daily, hourly, momentarily, if necessary, the immediate task or duty at hand, and to continue happily in such performance as the years come and go, leaving the fruits of such labors either for self or for others to be bestowed as a just and beneficent Father may determine.” (David O. McKay in CR, Apr. 1957, p. 7.) Doesn't this eliminate all the idea of God's interference in our lives when we pray for hope for a blessing? All this seems to say to me is just like the atheists follow, "we are on our own...do it yourself". What is the point of praying if God won't help us anyway? Praying only for strength seems like an affirmation. I am sure that this isn't the case, but I sure ain't seeing the end of the rainbow on this one and I lost my rose colored glasses a while ago. Any help is appriciated. I don't get that at all from that quote. To me, it seems to be reminding us that 1) faith is an action word and 2) whether or not we are saved is up to us-not in the sense that we make it happen but in the sense that whether or not we receive the grace of Christ and are justified thru His atonement is completely in our hands. We don't do it alone, but neither does Christ save us without our participation in His saving work. He can only work with what we give Him, and if we give Him nothing then nothing is what He can accomplish for us. 1
Bill “Papa” Lee Posted December 8, 2013 Posted December 8, 2013 I would like to get help into something I ran into today. In my religion class at BYU-I, I was reading the institute manual for the New Testament when I came across this. (44-7) Philippians 2:12. “Work Out Your Own Salvation with Fear and Trembling”“An outstanding doctrine of the Church is that each individual carries the responsibility to work out his own salvation, and salvation is a process of gradual development. The Church does not accept the doctrine that a mere murmured belief in Jesus Christ is all that is necessary. A man may say he believes, but if he does nothing to make that belief or faith a moving power to do, to accomplish, to produce soul growth, his professing will avail him nothing. ‘Work out your salvation’ is an exhortation to demonstrate by activity, by thoughtful, obedient effort the reality of faith. But this must be done with a consciousness that absolute dependence upon self may produce pride and weakness that will bring failure. With ‘fear and trembling’ we should seek the strength and grace of God for inspiration to obtain the final victory.“To work out one’s salvation is not to sit idly by dreaming and yearning for God miraculously to thrust bounteous blessings into our laps. It is to perform daily, hourly, momentarily, if necessary, the immediate task or duty at hand, and to continue happily in such performance as the years come and go, leaving the fruits of such labors either for self or for others to be bestowed as a just and beneficent Father may determine.” (David O. McKay in CR, Apr. 1957, p. 7.) Doesn't this eliminate all the idea of God's interference in our lives when we pray for hope for a blessing? All this seems to say to me is just like the atheists follow, "we are on our own...do it yourself". What is the point of praying if God won't help us anyway? Praying only for strength seems like an affirmation. I am sure that this isn't the case, but I sure ain't seeing the end of the rainbow on this one and I lost my rose colored glasses a while ago. Any help is appriciated.The other day I heard an old sermon by a boyhood hero...(still so) Billy Graham, saying. When we come unto God, He "demands" a change in our lives. His health is not well, be in prayer for this mighty voice for good in the world!
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