Church Specifically Disavows Priesthood Restriction Explanations

[Stone holm]

You're not really helping the case for inspired leaders much. You're saying that the prejudices of the members of the quorum were so strong that a revelation wasn't possible? That they would not have been willing or able to hear God's will that a change was due?

That doesn't sound like a very effective model for inspired leadership.

On the other hand, if you read Pres Kimball's biography, you realize that by sending him to an Indian reservation to recuperate from a heart attack, The Lord helped prepare him for his appointed task. Meanwhile ETB was banished to Europe.

[canard78]

Was it racial discrimination that Jesus went only to the Jews.

You're familiar, I presume, with the scripture "other sheep I have...?" He didn't only go to the Jews. He also repeated this message before leaving the Nephites, so at minimum he visited a third group if you accept LDS scripture. Somewhere hidden in our doctrines is even the sea that he visited other planets. So not only is he not racist; he's not even homo-sapienist!

Is it racial discrimination today that women are declined the Priesthood?

I know it's said men are from Mars and women from Venus... But when did women become a race???

(But yes, it's still discrimination and there's little scriptural precedent and lots of cultural assumptions that mean it will take a while to extend priesthood to women. Maybe a quorum of 15 who are first convinced that it could happen before they are willing to seek an answer as to whether it should happen).

[Stone holm]

You're familiar, I presume, with the scripture "other sheep I have...?" He didn't only go to the Jews. He also repeated this message before leaving the Nephites, so at minimum he visited a third group if you accept LDS scripture. Somewhere hidden in our doctrines is even the sea that he visited other planets. So not only is he not racist; he's not even homo-sapienist!

I know it's said men are from Mars and women from Venus... But when did women become a race???

(But yes, it's still discrimination and there's little scriptural precedent and lots of cultural assumptions that mean it will take a while to extend priesthood to women. Maybe a quorum of 15 who are first convinced that it could happen before they are willing to seek an answer as to whether it should happen).

So are you suggesting that the Jews in Jerusalem when Christ appears on the scene had the M Priesthood?

[canard78]

So are you suggesting that the Jews in Jerusalem when Christ appears on the scene had the M Priesthood?

 

I don't know what that has to do with it? Sometimesaint said "Was it racial discrimination that Jesus went only to the Jews."

 

It wasn't a discussion about the "M Priesthood."

[thesometimesaint]

You're familiar, I presume, with the scripture "other sheep I have...?" He didn't only go to the Jews. He also repeated this message before leaving the Nephites, so at minimum he visited a third group if you accept LDS scripture. Somewhere hidden in our doctrines is even the sea that he visited other planets. So not only is he not racist; he's not even homo-sapienist!

I know it's said men are from Mars and women from Venus... But when did women become a race???

(But yes, it's still discrimination and there's little scriptural precedent and lots of cultural assumptions that mean it will take a while to extend priesthood to women. Maybe a quorum of 15 who are first convinced that it could happen before they are willing to seek an answer as to whether it should happen).

 

Yes I am. It was Jesus that went to his other sheep AFTER his Resurrection. As I said it was during his mortal ministry that he went only to the Jews, and commanded his Apostles to do such.

 

I know nothing of other planets receipt of the Gospel let alone the Priesthood. Though it is an interesting speculation. It wouldn't bother me either way.

 

Women are a subset of the human race.

 

The Scriptures are replete with examples on bans intermarriage, bans on Priesthood, tribal rivalries, some pretty twisted actions, and characters, from our 21st century CE understandings. Hopefully one day, the sooner the better, mortal humans will finally realize that ALL are alike unto God, and always have been.

[canard78]

Yes I am. It was Jesus that went to his other sheep AFTER his Resurrection. As I said it was during his mortal ministry that he went only to the Jews, and commanded his Apostles to do such.

 

You said:

Was it racial discrimination that Jesus went only to the Jews. You said nothing of mortal in the post I'd quoted (unless I'm going barmy and missed it).

 

Jesus could only be in one place at one time. He was in a human body. Even in that ministry he didn't only go to the Jews. There are several stories of him ministering to gentiles (e.g. the Roman centurion).

 

I know nothing of other planets receipt of the Gospel let alone the Priesthood. Though it is an interesting speculation. It wouldn't bother me either way.

 

Women are a subset of the human race.

 

The Scriptures are replete with examples on bans intermarriage, bans on Priesthood, tribal rivalries, some pretty twisted actions, and characters, from our 21st century CE understandings. Hopefully one day, the sooner the better, mortal humans will finally realize that ALL are alike unto God, and always have been.

Women are not a race. They are a gender.

 

I agree that we are all alike unto God. It's the non-realisation of this basic idea that leads to humans creating these divisive bans on racial intermarriage. Even with my 21CE understanding, I don't see God's influence in them.

[Stone holm]

You said:Was it racial discrimination that Jesus went only to the Jews. You said nothing of mortal in the post I'd quoted (unless I'm going barmy and missed it).

 

Jesus could only be in one place at one time. He was in a human body. Even in that ministry he didn't only go to the Jews. There are several stories of him ministering to gentiles (e.g. the Roman centurion).

 

Women are not a race. They are a gender.

 

I agree that we are all alike unto God. It's the non-realisation of this basic idea that leads to humans creating these divisive bans on racial intermarriage. Even with my 21CE understanding, I don't see God's influence in them.

Well yes he ministered to some Gentiles, but his Earthly mortal mission was to the Jews, the Gospel did not go to the Gentiles until Paul, and many Jews had a problem accepting it.

[thesometimesaint]

 

You said:

Was it racial discrimination that Jesus went only to the Jews. You said nothing of mortal in the post I'd quoted (unless I'm going barmy and missed it).

 

Jesus could only be in one place at one time. He was in a human body. Even in that ministry he didn't only go to the Jews. There are several stories of him ministering to gentiles (e.g. the Roman centurion).

 

Women are not a race. They are a gender.

 

I agree that we are all alike unto God. It's the non-realisation of this basic idea that leads to humans creating these divisive bans on racial intermarriage. Even with my 21CE understanding, I don't see God's influence in them.

 

Actually I did in a previous post, but the point still remains. At one time Jesus declined to go to anyone but the Jews. A first shall be last and the last shall be first type thing. Ministering to someone isn't the same thing as giving them the Priesthood. We've all read/heard stories of members praying that their car would get somewhere. I don't believe that giving a car a blessing of operating correctly is the same thing as giving it the Gospel, let alone the Priesthood.

 

Sure Jesus could only be in one place at one time. But he was part of a community of Jews, Romans, Samaritans, and probably a few others as well. Yet he only went to the Jews with the Gospel and the Priesthood.

 

I don't understand what you mean by that last sentence. Whether man instituted the various bans, or God did the Scriptures are replete with examples of bans. I tend to believe that the various bans in Scripture were the work of God, but the rationalizations for them are purely man made. IE; It is one thing to tell someone you won't marry them because of religious differences that are too great to overcome, and quite another to tell that same person their beliefs are intrinsically inferior to yours. IE; A devout Mormon marrying a committed Atheist probably isn't the best of ideas.