Stone holm Posted December 6, 2013 Posted December 6, 2013 I don't know about you, but I cringe whenever I hear this phrase when used in connection with Church history. It seems too much like an arrogant modern dismissal of things we are unwilling to either believe or try to fathom. 3
CV75 Posted December 6, 2013 Posted December 6, 2013 I don't know about you, but I cringe whenever I hear this phrase when used in connection with Church history. It seems too much like an arrogant modern dismissal of things we are unwilling to either believe or try to fathom.I'm sure that many from the earleir days would look askance at our times as well, probbaly on the basis of "more materialistic, ungodly times" or something like that (Moronia 8: 35-36). When arrogance, dismissal and unwillingness get in the way, there is little that can be rightly understood. I think Moroni at least countered his condemnation with many messages of hope in Christ and the Restoration.
The Nehor Posted December 6, 2013 Posted December 6, 2013 I don't know about you, but I cringe whenever I hear this phrase when used in connection with Church history. It seems too much like an arrogant modern dismissal of things we are unwilling to either believe or try to fathom. Yesterday I went out to eat with two coworkers. One discussed astrology and how it influenced her love life. The other brought up how Chinese were buying up all our national parks for nefarious purposes. I really don't think superstition has really eroded. 2
thesometimesaint Posted December 6, 2013 Posted December 6, 2013 It's a mixed bag. Yes we have have much more knowledge of how science works and we are still subject to all the flaws of human understanding that they were. For some reason we want to believe in magic, and miracles. We want to feel connected with something greater than ourselves.
Deborah Posted December 6, 2013 Posted December 6, 2013 I really don't think superstition has really eroded. I agree. Also I think it's not so much they were more superstitious but they may have had greater faith in things they couldn't understand or see with their eyes. Some people today still have that kind of faith but they are also accused of being superstitious though not in that term. 1
CV75 Posted December 6, 2013 Posted December 6, 2013 I ran across this today: http://newsfeed.time.com/2013/12/03/and-merriam-websters-word-of-the-year-is/ Meriam-Webster's word of the year is: SCIENCE! "...the editors argue that their word embodies the culture of 2013 in its own way. “Our data shows … that many of the most looked-up words in the dictionary are words that reflect the big ideas that are lurking behind the headlines,” writes Editor-at-Large Peter Sokolowski in a statement. The editors link science, a word users looked up 176% more than last year, to political discussions of climate change and education, as well as Malcolm Gladwell’s latest book, criticized as a misrepresentation of science."
Stone holm Posted December 6, 2013 Author Posted December 6, 2013 I agree. Also I think it's not so much they were more superstitious but they may have had greater faith in things they couldn't understand or see with their eyes. Some people today still have that kind of faith but they are also accused of being superstitious though not in that term.I think you are right in this. I think there is a tendency to dismiss anything that connects the supranatural with the material world as being mere ignorance. So we don't deny that Aaron's staff did interesting things, but that was just for those ignorant Hebrews back in ancient times, not for us. I wonder if members understand how similar that sounds to Protestants denying miracles, modern day Apostles, and modern revelation.
thesometimesaint Posted December 6, 2013 Posted December 6, 2013 I think you are right in this. I think there is a tendency to dismiss anything that connects the supranatural with the material world as being mere ignorance. So we don't deny that Aaron's staff did interesting things, but that was just for those ignorant Hebrews back in ancient times, not for us. I wonder if members understand how similar that sounds to Protestants denying miracles, modern day Apostles, and modern revelation. I think when we do that we give up too much ground to the profound meaning behind Adams words when he said(Paraphrasing) I don't know, except God told me to do it.
Stone holm Posted December 6, 2013 Author Posted December 6, 2013 I think when we do that we give up too much ground to the profound meaning behind Adams words when he said(Paraphrasing) I don't know, except God told me to do it. There is a certain amount of modern arrogance involved. I tend to subscribe to the theory that because we have developed an objective science oriented mindset as a society that other less objective senses may have atrophied, so that while we are technologically superior to prior civilizations, we may have lost other senses and abilities. For example, Aaron threw down his rod and it became a snake and it ate up the Egyptian Magicians snakes -- were these just illusions at work, or were we having some actual arcane duel. And was the Tower of Babel really just a tall tower or was there something else at play, and what was the Arc of the Covenant? Do certain aboriginal tribes actually have senses that we have lost? If so, our arrogance is not justified.
Avatar4321 Posted December 6, 2013 Posted December 6, 2013 I think we live in a far more superstitious time now. 1
Ahab Posted December 6, 2013 Posted December 6, 2013 Superstition, belief in supernatural causality: that one event leads to the cause of another without any natural process linking the two events, such as astrology, religion, omens, witchcraft, etc., that contradicts natural science. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superstition All that God does is in harmony with natural science, so I'd say superstition is a belief in anything that doesn't really happen in reality.
Stone holm Posted December 7, 2013 Author Posted December 7, 2013 Superstition, belief in supernatural causality: that one event leads to the cause of another without any natural process linking the two events, such as astrology, religion, omens, witchcraft, etc., that contradicts natural science. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superstition All that God does is in harmony with natural science, so I'd say superstition is a belief in anything that doesn't really happen in reality.Well, yes but the utilization of natural laws that are unknown to humankind winds up being considered supranatural and not in accordance with reality. So our sense or perception of that which is real changes over time, and if over reliance on technology can cause the atrophy of a sense, then perception based on senses also changes over time. But do not disagree regarding natural laws and God's use thereof.
Ahab Posted December 7, 2013 Posted December 7, 2013 Well, yes but the utilization of natural laws that are unknown to humankind winds up being considered supranatural and not in accordance with reality. So our sense or perception of that which is real changes over time, and if over reliance on technology can cause the atrophy of a sense, then perception based on senses also changes over time.Said another way, I think you're basically saying some people's lack of knowledge of God's utilization of natural laws affects their sense of perception and can cause or lead to superstitions. Momma always had a way of explaining things so I could understand them.
Stone holm Posted December 7, 2013 Author Posted December 7, 2013 Or the application of unknown natural laws is dismissed as folklore, ignorance, and superstition.
thesometimesaint Posted December 7, 2013 Posted December 7, 2013 There is a certain amount of modern arrogance involved. I tend to subscribe to the theory that because we have developed an objective science oriented mindset as a society that other less objective senses may have atrophied, so that while we are technologically superior to prior civilizations, we may have lost other senses and abilities. For example, Aaron threw down his rod and it became a snake and it ate up the Egyptian Magicians snakes -- were these just illusions at work, or were we having some actual arcane duel. And was the Tower of Babel really just a tall tower or was there something else at play, and what was the Arc of the Covenant? Do certain aboriginal tribes actually have senses that we have lost? If so, our arrogance is not justified. Science has its place. It does a very effective job in determining how something can be done. IE; I am communicating with you right now though we are thousands of miles apart, and unlikely to see each other in person. Science has never been good at explaining why we choose to communicate with each other, other than to communicate seems to be built in need to our species.
Stone holm Posted December 7, 2013 Author Posted December 7, 2013 Science has its place. It does a very effective job in determining how something can be done. IE; I am communicating with you right now though we are thousands of miles apart, and unlikely to see each other in person. Science has never been good at explaining why we choose to communicate with each other, other than to communicate seems to be built in need to our species.This form of communication, say writing appearing on a wall or directions on a Liahona or upon a peep stone would be taken as supranatural and there would in our arrogance be dismissed as superstitious.
thesometimesaint Posted December 7, 2013 Posted December 7, 2013 This form of communication, say writing appearing on a wall or directions on a Liahona or upon a peep stone would be taken as supranatural and there would in our arrogance be dismissed as superstitious. No doubt. Try telling someone of the 17th Century about modern electronics would likely get you burnt at the stake.
Stone holm Posted December 7, 2013 Author Posted December 7, 2013 No doubt. Try telling someone of the 17th Century about modern electronics would likely get you burnt at the stake.Although not as lethal, the modern reaction to say dowsing rods and peep stones is somewhat the same.
thesometimesaint Posted December 7, 2013 Posted December 7, 2013 Although not as lethal, the modern reaction to say dowsing rods and peep stones is somewhat the same. They would not be my first choice either, but I don't know much about either, other than they sometimes work.
cinepro Posted December 7, 2013 Posted December 7, 2013 They would not be my first choice either, but I don't know much about either, other than they sometimes work. Everything works sometimes.
Stone holm Posted December 7, 2013 Author Posted December 7, 2013 Everything works sometimes.Yeah our clock over the pellet stove is right twice a day.
ERayR Posted December 8, 2013 Posted December 8, 2013 Superstition, belief in supernatural causality: that one event leads to the cause of another without any natural process linking the two events, such as astrology, religion, omens, witchcraft, etc., that contradicts natural science. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superstition All that God does is in harmony with natural science, so I'd say superstition is a belief in anything that doesn't really happen in reality. Whose interpretation of natural science and what branch of said sciences? Our understanding of many things in natural science is constantly changing.
ERayR Posted December 8, 2013 Posted December 8, 2013 Science has its place. It does a very effective job in determining how something can be done. IE; I am communicating with you right now though we are thousands of miles apart, and unlikely to see each other in person. Science has never been good at explaining why we choose to communicate with each other, other than to communicate seems to be built in need to our species. There are some people who seem to have an ability to communicate telepathically over great distances. Not as effectively as we do electronically, but then not nearly so much effort has been expended to improve that ability.
thesometimesaint Posted December 8, 2013 Posted December 8, 2013 Everything works sometimes. True, but science isn't about the one time occurrence, it needs to be over and over again with the same results.
thesometimesaint Posted December 8, 2013 Posted December 8, 2013 There are some people who seem to have an ability to communicate telepathically over great distances. Not as effectively as we do electronically, but then not nearly so much effort has been expended to improve that ability. I haven't studied parapsychology so it is hard for me to address that issue other than to agree with cinepro.
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