Are You A Liberal Mormon?

[canard78]

How does Meridian Magazine publish this stuff?!

 

http://www.ldsmag.com/article/1/13489

 

I think I was a child when I first heard the term, “Liberal Mormon.” It meant people who were of our faith, but who drew their own lines in the sand. They decided which aspects of our faith to accept or reject, from honoring the Sabbath to wearing less than modest clothing. Basically, it described people who were members of convenience. When they didn’t like something the Prophet said, they felt perfectly fine skirting around that one, and writing their own rules.

“Jack Mormon” is a similar phrase, usually applied to people who don’t obey our rules (particularly Word of Wisdom rules) or who consider themselves Mormon, but never attend church. Jack Mormons are obvious about it, too—you see them staggering out of a bar, or heading into the shopping mall on Sundays.

 

Liberal Mormons are more slippery. They often attend church, but they’re the ones who dodge Gospel Doctrine class because the teacher is “so by-the-book.” This criticism is meant to imply that he’s a dolt who never questions anything, so why should I attend a class taught by someone so narrow-minded?

 

They disagree with several points in the Proclamation to the World, say no to callings that insult their intelligence, and create their own spin on how God will ultimately judge us (very leniently, usually). They think bikinis are fine, iced tea is a tasty drink, and R-rated movies are often artistic and worth seeing.

 

Invariably liberal Mormons do not read their scriptures every day. They do not attend the temple, they do not show up to help someone move, and they do not Home Teach or Visit Teach with regularity. They view those who do as quaint minions who never question authority and who follow the rules like mindless sheep. The one thing they do subscribe to with gusto, however, is free agency. In fact, free agency is their justification for the Designer Gospel they have refurbished to suit their individual tastes.

 

I am a liberal and I'm a Mormon. I hold a calling, a turn up at house-moves, I try to hold family home evening, I study daily and I'm looking forward to going to the temple next month.

 

After the amazingly inclusive talk from Elder Uchtdorf a few weeks ago it makes me sad that members can be so narrow minded as to feel they are in a position to both label, judge and categorise their fellow-member.

 

She has no idea the "degree of difficulty" that someone carries with them into church on a Sunday. She looks on the outward appearance but thankfully God looks on the heart. This sort of labeling and criticism is not helpful.

[thesometimesaint]

How does Meridian Magazine publish this stuff?!

 

http://www.ldsmag.com/article/1/13489

 

 

I am a liberal and I'm a Mormon. I hold a calling, a turn up at house-moves, I try to hold family home evening, I study daily and I'm looking forward to going to the temple next month.

 

After the amazingly inclusive talk from Elder Uchtdorf a few weeks ago it makes me sad that members can be so narrow minded as to feel they are in a position to both label, judge and categorise their fellow-member.

 

She has no idea the "degree of difficulty" that someone carries with them into church on a Sunday. She looks on the outward appearance but thankfully God looks on the heart. This sort of labeling and criticism is not helpful.

 

You'll never want for Moonshine with the Meridan Magazine in your pocket.

[cursor]

My father is one of the most "liberal" people I know. I (and he) hardly see that as being impracticable, or unreasonable. As a matter of fact I think that the both of us view "liberal" as being "reasonably flexible." After all, what does "love your fellow man" mean? Hey, call me Gumby. That means that Dad (God bless him) is Gumby's father.

[wenglund]

After the amazingly inclusive talk from Elder Uchtdorf a few weeks ago it makes me sad that members can be so narrow minded as to feel they are in a position to both label, judge and categorise their fellow-member..

 

Isn't "narrow-minded" an exclusionary and judgmental label?

 

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Edited October 31, 2013 by wenglund

[omni]

How does Meridian Magazine publish this stuff?!

http://www.ldsmag.com/article/1/13489

I am a liberal and I'm a Mormon. I hold a calling, a turn up at house-moves, I try to hold family home evening, I study daily and I'm looking forward to going to the temple next month.

After the amazingly inclusive talk from Elder Uchtdorf a few weeks ago it makes me sad that members can be so narrow minded as to feel they are in a position to both label, judge and categorise their fellow-member.

She has no idea the "degree of difficulty" that someone carries with them into church on a Sunday. She looks on the outward appearance but thankfully God looks on the heart. This sort of labeling and criticism is not helpful.

I like to read Meridian Magazine when I need a good chuckle.

[thesometimesaint]

Isn't "narrow-minded" an exclusionary and judgmental label?

 

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

 

Exclusionary only if you are broad minded, and judgmental if you lack judgment.

[Alan]

These labels are stupid.

I'm a socialist politically, but a conservative in the way I conduct my life.

What has any of that got to do with faith?

[juliann]

Based on the comments,  she represents 0 Mormons from what I can see,  so I'm wondering why all the outrage given that she is standing  alone over there. 

[Freedom]

Well, I suppose that according to the standards of the article, we are all liberal mormons.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

Liberal in the classic sense. Yeah. Liberal in the modern progressive sense? Nope. But it depends on were you live what liberal means. I am sure in europe it means something different than it does in the US. I didn't even read the article because I doubt she even defined the term.

 

Ok I read the article I don't agree with it at all.

Edited October 31, 2013 by Mola Ram Suda Ram

[VideoGameJunkie]

Harry Reid is a Mormon.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

Based on the comments,  she represents 0 Mormons from what I can see,  so I'm wondering why all the outrage given that she is standing  alone over there. 

I think you are correct.

[jkwilliams]

Based on the comments,  she represents 0 Mormons from what I can see,  so I'm wondering why all the outrage given that she is standing  alone over there.

I am rarely outraged by stupidity. If I were, I'd be outraged at myself all the time. All I will say about Ms. Hilton's article is that I can't decide whether the utter lack of self-awareness is sad or funny or a little of both. And I'm taken aback that any magazine would deem that worthy of publishing.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

Harry Reid is a Mormon.

Yes he is but I doubt that he is a "liberal" mormon the way this lady describes them.

[canard78]

I'm so relieved by your responses. I thought I was going mad.

[wenglund]

Exclusionary only if you are broad minded, and judgmental if you lack judgment.

 

So, to your way of thinking, a label is only exclusionary or judgmental based on who is doing the labeling, and not on the merits of the labels themselves?

 

I ask because if so, that seems to be characteristic of some liberal thinking. It seems that when certain liberals put certain labels on conservatives or non-liberals (like racist or bigot or narrow minded, etc.), in their minds that is perfectly fine, but when conservatives and non-liberals put the same labels or others on liberals, it is very wrong. What a lovely and self-serving double standard.

 

I find the outrage here against the article somewhat amusing--as one who is often of the small minority in the comments section on the Huffington Post.

 

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Edited October 31, 2013 by wenglund

[cinepro]

FWIW, here are Sister Hilton's criteria for being a "liberal mormon"

 

 

 

_ doesn't "honor" the Sabbath

_ wears less-than-modest clothing

_ doesn't like something the Prophet says

_ dodges Gospel Doctrine because of "by-the-book" teachers

_ disagrees with "several points" in the Proclamation to the World

_ says no to callings because the calling "insults their intelligence"

_ has own opinion on the methodology God will use to judge us

_ thinks bikinis are "fine"

_ thinks iced tea is a "tasty drink"

_ thinks R-rated movies are often "artistic" and "worth seeing" (presumably watches them too)

_ does not read scriptures daily

_ does not attend temple

_ does not help people move

_ does not Home Teach or Visit Teach with regularity

Personally, I am guilty of three, so I guess I am 3/14 Liberal Mormon.

Edited October 31, 2013 by cinepro

[Buckeye]

Joni Hilton's bio says she lives in Northern California.  I find it had to believe she has not met a "liberal" mormon who is also a strong upstanding member of the church.  I can't add much beyond what has already been said.  This is just silly.

 

One item of importance I can add is that, in the comments, Joni Hilton added this clarification:

 

To clarify: I am not criticizing politically liberal people, only those who wish to rewrite the commandments to suit their purposes, and then justify it under the label of being broad minded. We should all be liberal in our fast offerings, liberal with forgiveness, etc. Here the word "liberal" means disobedient. Of course I agree with President Uchtdorf's talk; we want everyone to come unto Christ, and/or come back. But narrow is the way, and those who think "anything goes," when our leaders have specifically addressed it, are simply mistaken.

 

So the real issue is that she equates "liberal" with "disobedient."  In that mindset, I guess her article makes some sense.  But it would be just a (il)logical to write an article critical of so-called "Outdoorsy Mormons" and then explain that "Outdoorsy" means "apostate." 

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

You know, I don't get why she should even care what other people are doing other than to possible help them in life. I don't see how doing any of this helps people.

 

Judging people and putting them in a box helps them how?

 

BTW I am not very good at not judging people sometimes. So lets get that out of the way.

Edited October 31, 2013 by Mola Ram Suda Ram

[omni]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned this little gem.

 

"Former Young Women President, Elaine Cannon, once said, “When the Prophet speaks, the debate is over.” This is because the prophet is speaking for God and telling us what He would have us hear. He is not just the president of a corporation, giving us his personal views."

 

When the angry exmo's talk about LDS being self-righteousness or pharisaical they now have a recent example to point to.  While the magazine isn't doctrinal or authoritative I can see many (myself not included) viewing it as representative of typical Mormon thought.   I believe she's done much more harm against the church than any recent anti-Mormon could hope to do.

[canard78]

FWIW, here are Sister Hilton's criteria for being a "liberal mormon"

 

_ doesn't "honor" the Sabbath

_ wears less-than-modest clothing

_ doesn't like something the Prophet says

_ dodges Gospel Doctrine because of "by-the-book" teachers

_ disagrees with "several points" in the Proclamation to the World

_ says no to callings because the calling "insults their intelligence"

_ has own opinion on the methodology God will use to judge us

_ thinks bikinis are "fine"

_ thinks iced tea is a "tasty drink"

_ thinks R-rated movies are often "artistic" and "worth seeing" (presumably watches them too)

_ does not read scriptures daily

_ does not attend temple

_ does not help people move

_ does not Home Teach or Visit Teach with regularity 

Personally, I am guilty of three, so I guess I am 3/14 Liberal Mormon.

 

Great game... I'm a bit more. 5/13 Liberal Mormon.

 

It made me almost laugh that Liberal Mormons are those who do not help people to move! 

 

You forgot to mention people who like visiting Europe. You can't trust those Europhile types. It was that lot that nearly lost you your independence after all. Bunch of frogs-leg-eating-surrender-monkeys!

[omni]

FWIW, here are Sister Hilton's criteria for being a "liberal mormon"

 

 

 

Personally, I am guilty of three, so I guess I am 3/14 Liberal Mormon.

 

 

It's the bikini and not dressing modestly, isn't it?

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned this little gem.

 

"Former Young Women President, Elaine Cannon, once said, “When the Prophet speaks, the debate is over.” This is because the prophet is speaking for God and telling us what He would have us hear. He is not just the president of a corporation, giving us his personal views."

 

When the angry exmo's talk about LDS being self-righteousness or pharisaical they now have a recent example to point to.  While the magazine isn't doctrinal or authoritative I can see many (myself not included) viewing it as representative of typical Mormon thought.   I believe she's done much more harm against the church than any recent anti-Mormon could hope to do.

Well shoot sherriff. I think you are right on the money with this observation.

[canard78]

Joni Hilton's bio says she lives in Northern California.  I find it had to believe she has not met a "liberal" mormon who is also a strong upstanding member of the church.  I can't add much beyond what has already been said.  This is just silly.

 

One item of importance I can add is that, in the comments, Joni Hilton added this clarification:

 

To clarify: I am not criticizing politically liberal people, only those who wish to rewrite the commandments to suit their purposes, and then justify it under the label of being broad minded. We should all be liberal in our fast offerings, liberal with forgiveness, etc. Here the word "liberal" means disobedient. Of course I agree with President Uchtdorf's talk; we want everyone to come unto Christ, and/or come back. But narrow is the way, and those who think "anything goes," when our leaders have specifically addressed it, are simply mistaken.

 

So the real issue is that she equates "liberal" with "disobedient."  In that mindset, I guess her article makes some sense.  But it would be just a (il)logical to write an article critical of so-called "Outdoorsy Mormons" and then explain that "Outdoorsy" means "apostate." 

 

Yep, those orienteering mormons are never trustable. They walk in the mountains and DON'T shoot a pheasant if it crosses their path. I mean... what the fetchin' heck are they thinkin'? That pheasant was created to be blown to H. E. double-hockey-sticks!

[canard78]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned this little gem.

 

"Former Young Women President, Elaine Cannon, once said, “When the Prophet speaks, the debate is over.” This is because the prophet is speaking for God and telling us what He would have us hear. He is not just the president of a corporation, giving us his personal views."

 

When the angry exmo's talk about LDS being self-righteousness or pharisaical they now have a recent example to point to.  While the magazine isn't doctrinal or authoritative I can see many (myself not included) viewing it as representative of typical Mormon thought.   I believe she's done much more harm against the church than any recent anti-Mormon could hope to do.

 

Yes, this is really disappointing. Especially when the statement was later refuted. 

 

In some ways I'm laughing... but I'm also crying inside