Are You A Liberal Mormon?

[thesometimesaint]

Well, there are people who fit this description, but who's to say what's liberal?  One person's definition might be vastly different than another person's.  So while these people exist .... I don't think it's helpful to categorize people.  Best leave that to God.  

 

A dictionary works rather well.

[thesometimesaint]

That pretty well includes everybody but me and you and right now I am wondering about you.

 

True.

[Stone holm]

A dictionary works rather well.

 

Not with terms which are shifting and volatile, and the word "liberal" means something different from "Liberal"... both the term conservative and liberal are shifting sands right now because both sides use them as epithets.

[rockpond]

I couldn't get the article to download, so don't know exactly what it said, but if the comments accurately reflect it she has a pretty warped view of what it means to be politically liberal, and I assume that a liberal Mormon is meant to be a Mormon who is politically liberal.

 

Later in the day, but before the article had been removed, Joni Hilton posted a comment (in response to the feedback she was getting)... in that comment she said that she did not mean politically liberal.  She said that by "liberal" she meant "disobedient".  Based on the comments after that, it didn't seem to help her case much.

[thesometimesaint]

Not with terms which are shifting and volatile, and the word "liberal" means something different from "Liberal"... both the term conservative and liberal are shifting sands right now because both sides use them as epithets.

 

While all words change over time(I'm not good at speaking old Anglo-Saxon). A dictionary is still the best means available for determining the meaning of words. Lots depends on context. If I say I am liberal in my food choices. It means something different than if I say I'm conservative with them.

[stemelbow]

Later in the day, but before the article had been removed, Joni Hilton posted a comment (in response to the feedback she was getting)... in that comment she said that she did not mean politically liberal.  She said that by "liberal" she meant "disobedient".  Based on the comments after that, it didn't seem to help her case much.

 

Everyone's disobedient to one extent or another. 

[thesometimesaint]

That's true. It still doesn't help her much. Liberal doesn't mean disobedient. In the nonpolitical religious sense of the word. It means I've come up with my own reasons for obedience, as opposed to blindly following because some authority figure said so.

[Rivers]

Plenty.  According to the official doctrine:

 

A lot of interesting stuff gets put into those student manuals.

[cinepro]

Later in the day, but before the article had been removed, Joni Hilton posted a comment (in response to the feedback she was getting)... in that comment she said that she did not mean politically liberal.  She said that by "liberal" she meant "disobedient".  Based on the comments after that, it didn't seem to help her case much.

 

Since the whole point of writing something is to communicate ideas, I would say that if you write an article for a website and the editors of the website totally miss the point of your writing, it's an epic fail.

 

Someone, anyone, should have recognized the unclear and possibly loaded meanings behind the use of the word "liberal", and explained the minefield she was walking into (or, as an editor, sent it back for revision).  

 

Apart from the awful accusations she was making at the heart of the article in the first place.

[canard78]

Since the whole point of writing something is to communicate ideas, I would say that if you write an article for a website and the editors of the website totally miss the point of your writing, it's an epic fail.

 

Someone, anyone, should have recognized the unclear and possibly loaded meanings behind the use of the word "liberal", and explained the minefield she was walking into (or, as an editor, sent it back for revision).  

 

Apart from the awful accusations she was making at the heart of the article in the first place.

If she'd titled it "Are you a cafeteria Mormon?" it would have got a lot less reaction, but still been excessively judgmental.

[rockpond]

 

Since the whole point of writing something is to communicate ideas, I would say that if you write an article for a website and the editors of the website totally miss the point of your writing, it's an epic fail.

 

Someone, anyone, should have recognized the unclear and possibly loaded meanings behind the use of the word "liberal", and explained the minefield she was walking into (or, as an editor, sent it back for revision).  

 

Apart from the awful accusations she was making at the heart of the article in the first place.

 

My guess is that none of the editors recognized the problem with her article because they are probably of a similar mindset.  They may not have seen any issue with lumping together terms like liberal mormon, jack mormon, and disobedient.  I can imagine the editors being of that mindset because I can imagine myself being of that mindset at some point years ago.

[jkwilliams]

My guess is that none of the editors recognized the problem with her article because they are probably of a similar mindset.  They may not have seen any issue with lumping together terms like liberal mormon, jack mormon, and disobedient.  I can imagine the editors being of that mindset because I can imagine myself being of that mindset at some point years ago.

Yep. There's no way it just "slipped by" the editors. Ms. Hilton's article had their blessing until it became an embarrassment to them.

[Stone holm]

Yep. There's no way it just "slipped by" the editors. Ms. Hilton's article had their blessing until it became an embarrassment to them.

 

I think he was just saying it wasn't on their radar because they simply didn't comprehend given their "mindset"  or perspective on how the world works.

[thesometimesaint]

I think he was just saying it wasn't on their radar because they simply didn't comprehend given their "mindset"  or perspective on how the world works.

I accept their claims of innocence. I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt, until they make it perfectly clear what they meant.

[jkwilliams]

I accept their claims of innocence. I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt, until they make it perfectly clear what they meant.

Perhaps I'm being unclear. I think the article "slipped by" because, given the particular mindset of Meridian, it probably wasn't noticed as anything potentially offensive. It's obvious that, once it went out and offended a lot of people, they took another look and thought better of it.

We've all said things we regret.

[thesometimesaint]

Perhaps I'm being unclear. I think the article "slipped by" because, given the particular mindset of Meridian, it probably wasn't noticed as anything potentially offensive. It's obvious that, once it went out and offended a lot of people, they took another look and thought better of it.

We've all said things we regret.

 

I am all too familiar with Meridian Magazine. To put it mildly it isn't my cup of cocoa. But I'll accept their claim of innocence, and hope they'll do better in the future.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

That's true. It still doesn't help her much. Liberal doesn't mean disobedient. In the nonpolitical religious sense of the word. It means I've come up with my own reasons for obedience, as opposed to blindly following because some authority figure said so.

I am not sure that is what most people have in mind when they say liberal in a relgious setting. Mostly I associate it with politics. But as I understand the term it would mean that some one has a liberal interpretation of a scripture or doctrine. Meaning that it would not be the norm or most accpeted. That is generally how I view it. And note, I would not view it as a bad thing.

Edited November 6, 2013 by Mola Ram Suda Ram

[thesometimesaint]

I am not sure that is what most people have in mind when they say liberal in a relgious setting. Mostly I associate it with politics. But as I understand the term it would mean that some one has a liberal interpretation of a scripture or doctrine. Meaning that it would not be the norm or most accpeted. That is generally how I view it. And note, I would not view it as a bad thing.

 

I really can't make people use a term correctly. A religion that can not change quickly enough soon become oxymoronic(The Shakers). So in that sense the LDS religion is Liberal. We do allow for change and do change rather quickly. We are Conservative in the sense that those changes come for God, and are not just the precepts of men mingled with Scripture.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

I really can't make people use a term correctly. A religion that can not change quickly enough soon become oxymoronic(The Shakers). So in that sense the LDS religion is Liberal. We do allow for change and do change rather quickly. We are Conservative in the sense that those changes come for God, and are not just the precepts of men mingled with Scripture.

So you would equate liberal with change. Interesting. I guess in a certain sence that works. But of course I think it encompasses more than that.

[thesometimesaint]

So you would equate liberal with change. Interesting. I guess in a certain sence that works. But of course I think it encompasses more than that.

By definition a liberal is someone that prefers new ways of thinking about and doing things. A conservative is someone whom prefers the old ways of thinking about and doing things. Both have their advantages and disadvantages. If we are too liberal we may never find the correct answer. If we are too conservative we may never look for it.

 

IE; I like Georgian style houses with Queen Ann style furniture. At the same time I like modern plumbing and modern electronics. In my ideal world I'd have both.

Edited November 6, 2013 by thesometimesaint

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

By definition a liberal is someone that prefers new ways of thinking about and doing things. A conservative is someone whom prefers the old ways of thinking about and doing things. Both have their advantages and disadvantages. If we are too liberal we may never find the correct answer. If we are too conservative we may never look for it.

 

IE; I like Georgian style houses with Queen Ann style furniture. At the same time I like modern plumbing and modern electronics. In my ideal world I'd have both.

Believe it or not but we are giving the same idea but using different words to describe it.

[thesometimesaint]

Believe it or not but we are giving the same idea but using different words to describe it.

 

I believe we agree far more than we disagree.

[wenglund]

I accept their claims of innocence. I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt, until they make it perfectly clear what they meant.

 

Excellent guiding principle, and likely an extension of the Golden Rule. The world is better for it.

 

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[wenglund]

Here is an interesting take on the meaning of Liberal and Conservative in not necessarily political senses of the words (it all started with beer): History of Liberals And Conservatives.

 

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[thesometimesaint]

Here is an interesting take on the meaning of Liberal and Conservative in not necessarily political senses of the words (it all started with beer): History of Liberals And Conservatives.

 

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

 

Funny but La sigh.