CV75 Posted October 14, 2013 Posted October 14, 2013 Addition thoughts?As you indicated, it is a political move to give a face to various forms of exploitation: racial, imperialist, expansionist, etc. (not that he deserves it personally). This makes it easier to avoid working out these specific issues rationally. 2
LoudmouthMormon Posted October 15, 2013 Posted October 15, 2013 (edited) I reflect on the word "great". It doesn't mean good, or nice, or right. It means vastly impactful, weighty, important, pivotal. Christopher Columbus was a great man, regardless of any attribute or motive or influence actually associated with him. He was a great man because of what happened because of his actions. Edited October 15, 2013 by LoudmouthMormon 1
thesometimesaint Posted October 15, 2013 Posted October 15, 2013 I see him as essetially a good man. We even today can't completely escape the culture we live in.
Sevenbak Posted October 21, 2013 Author Posted October 21, 2013 (edited) Thanks all, for the discussion. I can see a undercurrent of distain for Columbus in some ways, but I don't necessarily agree on the whole. While he and the early exploring gentiles did unspeakable things to the native americans, it wasn't anything that was not planned by the Lord. Multiple times it was prophesied that they would be scourged and scattered because of their idolatry and wickedness, and how far they had fallen as a people, but would eventually return to the Lord as part of his master plan. I don't see it as any different than what Joshua and Israel did to the occupants of the Holy Land by command of the Lord, including massacring little children, annihilating via genocide an entire people. I don't know all the reasons the Lord does what he does, but His ways are higher than my ways. And while Columbus was not a prophet like Joshua, his contributions were still prophesied of. I still like CC. Edited October 21, 2013 by Sevenbak
CV75 Posted October 21, 2013 Posted October 21, 2013 Thanks all, for the discussion. I can see a undercurrent of distain for Columbus in some ways, but I don't necessarily agree on the whole. While he and the early exploring gentiles did unspeakable things to the native americans, it wasn't anything that was not planned by the Lord. Multiple times it was prophesied that they would be scourged and scattered because of their idolatry and wickedness, and how far they had fallen as a people, but would eventually return to the Lord as part of his master plan. I don't see it as any different than what Joshua and Israel did to the occupants of the Holy Land by command of the Lord, including massacring little children, annihilating via genocide an entire people. I don't know all the reasons the Lord does what he does, but His ways are higher than my ways. And while Columbus was not a prophet like Joshua, his contributions were still prophesied of. I still like CC.Amen. In Latin America, they celebrate "Columbus Day" as "The Day of the Race," or the birth of the Hispanic ethnic group once the Spanish and American Indians got together. It is seen as a blessing, and promotes the wonderful and unique things that have come into the world through their contributions, and might well be part of the fulfilment of the blessings of the seed of Joseph. Even though he was Italian, or a Jew, or some other guiri.
Alan Posted October 21, 2013 Posted October 21, 2013 Columbus didn't discover America, he discovered the West Indies. I don't know a lot of the history, but I do know there are some LDS who have identified another character to whom the BofM may be referring. This person actually discovered what we now call North America - and I'm not talking about a viking. Does anyone know who this is?
BCSpace Posted October 22, 2013 Posted October 22, 2013 I think God can plant inspiration in the hearts of men and those men don't necessarily have to be as righteous as we want or hope. In Columbus' case, a desire for riches and fame. But are these things intrinsically evil? I daresay they aren't (though I admit I'll have much more difficulty defending a desire for fame than I will riches).
ERayR Posted October 22, 2013 Posted October 22, 2013 I don't see him as a villian. Just very flawed like the rest of us. However he did have plenty of chutzpah. He didn't know where he was going; He didn't know where he was when he got there; and he did it all on borrowed money. I am not sure that he was as lost as you portray him. I have a suspicion that he knew more than he is given credit for. 1
halconero Posted October 22, 2013 Posted October 22, 2013 Probably John Cabot. So...it's possible that God was talking about the discovery of Canada in the Book of Mormon? I can get behind this. 1
ERayR Posted October 22, 2013 Posted October 22, 2013 Columbus didn't discover America, he discovered the West Indies.I don't know a lot of the history, but I do know there are some LDS who have identified another character to whom the BofM may be referring. This person actually discovered what we now call North America - and I'm not talking about a viking.Does anyone know who this is? Are not the West Indies part of the Americas? I for one do not think the BoM references are limited to the US or even to North America. 1
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