Are We Obsessed With Mormonism?

[jkwilliams]

This may not be even the main reason that I come here but one reason is that here I can tell someone quite accurately exactly what I'm feeling and thinking about their "explanations" regarding church "mis-steps" or accusations towards me. Something that I couldn't do out of respect for my Stake President, who I interviewed with at the time of my spiritual departure from the church.

I should think that after he listened to Uchtdorf's talk he would have felt a wince of guilt for the way in which he conducted our interview, but then thinking about the arrogance that exists in some church leadership and with him in particular.....I doubt he felt anything...

Not having actually been through any discipline process, but I have heard that in general they give the leaving member very little opportunity to state their complete case for leaving the church. (I'd suggest the book written by Lyndon Lamborn, "Standing for something more" for a narrative about his excommunication.)

 

I'm sorry you were treated that way by your stake president. I had a bishop in Utah who thought the best way to get me to come back to full faith was to shame me in public, especially in front of my kids. That's when I stopped attending church at all for about 8 months, give or take. I went back because I learned my wife was bearing the brunt of the shaming and pitying, so I guess in a way the bishop's approach worked.

 

I understand where you're coming from. I too really appreciated Pres. Uchtdorf's acknowledgement that many of us leave for legitimate reasons of conscience. I can't recall anyone in leadership ever acknowledging that, and certainly you don't hear that on the boards much.

[jkwilliams]

I'm not obsessed with Mormonism.

 

....of which I'm continually reminded.

 

Maybe that's your obsession: being reminded of your shortcomings. I think that was mine for a long time. Just saying.

[jkwilliams]

Have at it Bro.  

 

This is an equal opportunity world and Mormonism is worth getting obsessed about.

However, most Mormons have ordinary jobs and professions which dominate most of their time and education.  So it is helpful to get away from the rat race and spend some time contemplating holy things.  Then too, it is good to be broad and well-informed across the manifold subjects which concern us all.  We need to read widely in non-Mormon subject-matter.  A broadly informed Mormon is a more effective, well-adjusted, and happier Mormon.

 

Nah, I prefer being narrow-minded and poorly read. It makes life more fun.

 

For some reason, I don't think I've ever equated posting here or elsewhere with contemplating holy things. Something for me to ponder.

[jkwilliams]

I come here to make sure you and your compatriots don't succeed.

 

But it's not personal.

 

I come here to help people find their sense of humor. But it's not personal.

 

In all seriousness, one of the things I've learned in my sojourn in the apostate wilderness is that I don't have to be right, I don't have to know everything, and I don't have to convince anyone of anything. Just being comfortable in my own skin is worth everything I've been through. Someone used to tell that I was like someone standing in a shark pit and telling people to come on in because the water is warm. Some people are happier outside the church, and others aren't, so it would be silly and a bit cruel for someone like me to try to get people to leave the church. To borrow from something you've said often, do what works for you. If Mormonism makes you happy, that is where you should be. IMO, whether it's true or not is secondary to its effects on you and your family.

[jkwilliams]

I come here because I can find answers to questions that aid me on my faith journey. I also find mormon culture, theology, and history to be fascinating.

 

That's how I always looked at it. So, beware, or you could end up like me.

[jkwilliams]

For me the Board provides a daily opportunity to discuss the Gospel and the Church. I enjoy the thoughtful questions and understand most of the struggles people have.  Most of the time it is a good place to discuss the Gospel. 

 

I hope you understand what a blessing it is for the struggling to have someone like you who will listen and try to understand.

[jkwilliams]

I'm still here, although, I haven't posted anything since last June.  But, I still come by about once a week, just to see what is being discussed.

 

I've made resolutions to stay away from Mormonism, but I get drawn back, when something "Mormon" catches my eye.  I think it's feeling comfortable with the familiarity of it...and curiosity about what is currently happening in the church.  It's still, in some ways, my family, even though we have become somewhat estranged.  I don't feel a tug to go back, but still interested in some things pertaining to the church.  Always feel drawn to watch, at least some, of GC, for example.  Enjoyed Elder Uchtdorf's talk...but, some of the others, not so much.

 

Anyway, still here, sort of, despite resolutions to "leave it alone".  

 

Yes, we can leave the church, but we can't leave it alone.

 

Like it or not, it's part of who we are.

[jkwilliams]

I come here so six days a week, I can imagine that the CoJCoLdS is as described by the people here.  Then on Sunday mornings I have that fantasy dashed to pieces by the reality of what is really taught and discussed at Church.

 

Who says you're cynical?

 

But I understand where you're coming from. The other day Brother Bukowski was talking about his church, which is a sort of loose conglomeration of like-minded believers unbound by rigid authoritarianism and doctrinal dogmatism. I couldn't figure out which church he was talking about.

[Hamba Tuhan]

If I could feel like that about the church, I'd be back in a second.

 

I wish you could!

[jkwilliams]

I wish you could!

 

I think I could overlook the problems with the church's foundational claims, but I don't ever want to feel like I did when I was active in the church.

[Hamba Tuhan]

I think I could overlook the problems with the church's foundational claims, but I don't ever want to feel like I did when I was active in the church.

 

We'll save a seat for you in our ward.

[jkwilliams]

We'll save a seat for you in our ward.

 

Too late. I'm already occupying a seat in my ward.

[Hamba Tuhan]

Too late. I'm already occupying a seat in my ward.

 

Surely it can't hurt to have more than one?

[Senator]

Maybe that's your obsession: being reminded of your shortcomings. I think that was mine for a long time. Just saying.

 

You might have missed my point.

 

Living in Mormonism is like living in a house made of mirrors.

Edited October 14, 2013 by Senator

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

Other than finally getting the nasty cold that everyone else in my family has had, I'm fine, thanks. How about you? I know you've been through a lot, and I hope things are better. As I said, it's impossible to move on when the church is a part of every day of my life. It's nice to be able to get stuff out of my system on the boards rather than at home, as I'd rather not bother my family with my issues.

 

As for the boards, I've learned to ignore the petty and the angry. I remember the situation you mentioned, and I think you got goaded into overreacting, which then was used against you. Sad, huh?

I had asked him repeatedly to close my account because of the reasons I said...still don't know if it worked. My attempt top show he had lost his soul and allow anything, ending up making me a Prophet for a time. But "Mormonism" or "The Gospel" gets so deep within you, I don't think anyone can completely walk away.

[jkwilliams]

I had asked him repeatedly to close my account because of the reasons I said...still don't know if it worked. My attempt top show he had lost his soul and allow anything, ending up making me a Prophet for a time. But "Mormonism" or "The Gospel" gets so deep within you, I don't think anyone can completely walk away.

 

Some days I wish I could, but it's not in the cards.

[omni]

I come here because I enjoy having my thinking challenged, and hopefully I'm able to return the favor--at least occasionally.

[mfbukowski]

 IMO, whether it's true or not is secondary to its effects on you and your family.

How can you say that while discussing guys like Saussure and Derrida ??

 

What IS "truth" then to you??  You seem like a bundle of contradictions, and then when I call you on it you say you were kidding?  I am trying to understand your point, but the target keeps on moving around.

[jkwilliams]

How can you say that while discussing guys like Saussure and Derrida ??

 

What IS "truth" then to you??  You seem like a bundle of contradictions, and then when I call you on it you say you were kidding?  I am trying to understand your point, but the target keeps on moving around.

When did I say I was kidding?

We could get into a huge discussion about truth, but for what purpose? My primary disagreement with you is simple: you believe that humans can apprehend things (God, truth, whatever you want to call it) without language and without interpretation. I do not. Everything we experience is interpreted and always will be, so when we choose "what works for us" we are choosing an interpretation by which to live our lives. You have, to my understanding, posited a God and a religion that teach certain moral absolutes, but I can only come up with one moral absolute in Mormonism. Hence, it's not a very attractive religion to me, especially when I consider that the moral absolute can only come through this "pre-linguistic" perception that I do not accept.

Within human perception we must understand that everything is contingent, but we must also understand that our shared "vocabulary," if you will, allows--maybe even requires--us to reach judgments and conclusions, however tentative they are.

[mfbukowski]

So why are we not the same person and why do we disagree?  How is it possible?

[jkwilliams]

So why are we not the same person and why do we disagree?  How is it possible?

Again, going back to an analogy you didn't like, why is one strand of thread in a Persian rug not the same color as another? Why is it not in the same place in the rug? How is it possible?

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

Who says you're cynical?

 

But I understand where you're coming from. The other day Brother Bukowski was talking about his church, which is a sort of loose conglomeration of like-minded believers unbound by rigid authoritarianism and doctrinal dogmatism. I couldn't figure out which church he was talking about.

I was in Sunday School yesterday and a member of the Bishopric repeated what a sister missionary said in correlation meeting. We have investigators who are humble but not necessarily the "caliber" (hope I spelled that right) that we would like. My wife said that when the sister missionary said the same thing in Relief Society that one of the older sisters said "excuse me!"..."what caliber of people are you looking for?" I am guessing (we have three sister missionary, one who was in the MTC last week) she won't be saying that again. When it was said in Priesthood, it was all could do not get loud and rude...which sadly I excel at. My son is a Ward missionary and just struggles in meeting with this young sister missionary. But two things I know, missionary service and age with humble the proud...age certainly does. But imperfections are always going to be a burden and a blessing until Christ comes.

Nuff of the sermon from the old man.

[Foreigner]

'Mormonism' touches and shapes every single aspect of my life. It fills me with joy beyond expression. It is my life and my labour. It colours my every thought. I feel like shouting 'Hallelujah' dozens of times during each day as I recognise yet again what I have and enjoy as a member of the Church. My waking hours are filled with concern over my ward members and attempts to serve and bless them. My prayers are on their behalf, and frequently my dreams provide the inspiration I need to better fulfil my calling as a bishopric member, as a home teacher, and as a brother in Christ. The scriptures and the words of the living prophets fill my mind and shape my behaviour. As I said to a friend yesterday between sessions of General Conference, I can think of nothing more satisfying than listening to the preaching of the Word. Yep, I'm thoroughly obsessed.

 

Your testimony is touching. And each your post appreciated.

Well, this can be one more answer, why it is worthwhile to come back to this forum. As for me, I attend in a passive way because expressing in the foreign language is painful and inefficient. Yet Hamba even caused me to appear in writing…

Your offer with a free seat in your ward would be interesting for other leaders in the Church, who are overwhelmed with shadows rather than colors of life. Maybe you can direct us to your country, so we could plan vacations nearby and learn for ourselves in such successful ward?

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

Some days I wish I could, but it's not in the cards.

Just try not to be too nice here or you will end up a target there and elsewhere. Too many have an unhealthy obsession with Mormonism...

[Jazzdreamer]

I am obsessed sadly lol. I love it, I love how it changed my life and helped me become a better person. I love the strength it gives me, the comfort. I love knowing no matter how many times I mess up, I have a Heavenly Father that loves me. It's one of the best feelings.