Online Proselytizing: A Preliminary Report From Provo Missionaries

[rongo]

I served my mission in a cold, dark corner of the US where the sun started setting around 3:30pm in the middle of winter. After that, absolutely no one would open their doors to strangers. We tried, of course, because that's what one does, but I would have loved to have something actually productive to do on winter nights, like chat with non-members in Japan about the gospel.

I served at a higher latitude (northern Germany), so I know all about the sun going down by 4:00 in winter and people not wanting to open the door and let heat out. Germans are even less open to door-to-door than Americans, and yet we did get let in relatively often. To me, people who say "Nobody will open their doors during certain times" haven't really spent enough time trying to be able to say this. Sometimes, the cold and darkness were an advantage (“What are you doing out in this cold? Can I get you something hot to drink?”)

 

 

This particular picture was taken on the outskirts of Oldenburg in 0 degree weather at 8:30 at night. We took it because we could not feel our hands or feet at all, no matter how much we rubbed or stamped them. We spent months in this heavily Catholic suburb of Lutheran Oldenburg, and had a lot of success teaching, often at night. This was at the same time that the Elbe (major river running through Hamburg to the North Sea) froze over, the first time this had happened in over a hundred years.

 

 

When people talk about doing e-missionary work during “ineffective times” (not saying you, because you served under proselyting conditions), they mean “any time we don’t have an appointment.” That's all "ineffective time," and time to be chatting on Facebook or waiting at the church for walk-ins for "chapel tours." This “down time” is getting bigger and bigger (missionaries in our mission are not allowed to tract, so they have tons of "ineffective time,” and my wife sees them every day of the week at the public library on the computers ---- six of them). For all of the talk about it being great that missionaries across the world can “teach” (chat online with people) people halfway across the world, they are doing less and less actual in person teaching and gaining the “shoe leather” experiences that have made many of us who we are.

[cinepro]

5) The two anecdotes smac shared, and this month’s New Era showcase investigators who have been solely taught on Facebook. I don’t think there’s any substitute for sitting, in person, and teaching someone. I am skeptical about retention rates among e-converts being better than our already poor retention rates (admittedly, there is supposed to be coordination between e-missionaries and missions and local units). I just can’t get excited and “catch the wave” of thinking e-teaching is flippin’ awesome!

 

...he wrote on a message board.

[rongo]

. . . in his free time, as a "civilian," * and not a called and set-apart, full-time missionary.

 

Kind of different, isn't it?

 

I did go with the missionaries on Tuesday, and had to provide lots of options when their appointments didn't pan out. They aren't allowed to knock on doors in our mission.

 

*ETA: who makes no pretense of his online gospel discussions coming close to formal teaching.

Edited October 18, 2013 by rongo

[Kenngo1969]

...he wrote on a message board.

He quipped, with irony!

[canard78]

I am looking forward to a virtual church. I can sit in front of the computer in shirt and tie and...pj bottoms.

 

Sometimes I like my online church experience as much as my Sunday church one.

[canard78]

That is amazing. I would love to hear if other Elders are having similiar experiences. Is there any way for us to help?

 

So if we go on splits with the missionaries do we have to join a group chat like MSN or something (edit: I've just read the blog and seen that members can join Skype lessons. That's pretty cool)?

 

When do we get to do Home Teaching via Skype?

 

I'm instantly skeptical of this initiative.

 

And yet, this forum has been evidence to me that it works. I'd consider certain people on the forum to be friends and teachers/mentors. The conversation in is a virtual environment but the effect is very real. I attribute my continued attendance in part to the contribution of other people on these pages (along with a couple of other forums).

Edited October 18, 2013 by canard78

[omni]

Perhaps an interesting addition to this discussion:

Hamba, do you have more info on the "nuts and bolts" of the program? I'm curious how they're finding these investigators from around the world? Are they referrals from the missionary's friends and families back home? Why are they not being referred to the missionaries in their own countries?

I could see this program working on areas or cities that don't have missionaries or for people that are apprehensive in meeting missionaries in person, but I don't understand the complete elimination of tracting--as seen where Rongo lives

[rongo]

Hamba, do you have more info on the "nuts and bolts" of the program? I'm curious how they're finding these investigators from around the world? Are they referrals from the missionary's friends and families back home? Why are they not being referred to the missionaries in their own countries?

 

I've asked this before, but haven't gotten an answer from people who really like e-missionary work. With the articles rejoicing in "start-to-finish" 100% teaching over social media, with no face-to-face contact with missionaries (cf. this month's New Era, the OP in this thread, etc.), my question is: why aren't there efforts to move towards face-to-face, in person teaching? I can understand initial contact coming via social media, but there is no reason to 100% teach someone up to the baptismal interview over social media (except in parts of the world without missionaries or Church presence, but these anecdotes come from areas with good presence). If an investigator will never make the time to actually meet with missionaries, that's a huge red flag to me.

 

 

 

I don't understand the complete elimination of tracting--as seen where Rongo lives

 

I think the real reason for all of this is to accommodate "soft" youth and missionaries in their work habits and electronics addictions/withdrawals. As a continuation of the youth program (instead of missionary work), all of these recent changes (lowered missionary age, loosened dress code, e-missionary work, chapel tours, disparagement/minimizing/elimination of tracting, etc.) seem to me to be geared to keeping youth out on missions and reducing adversity.

 

Speaking of: my wife and I just got back from running errands (we have our fathers and sons campout tonight), and ran into all six missionaries at the library again. They are there *daily.* They are good missionaries, too ---- not slackers.

Edited October 18, 2013 by rongo

[awyatt]

I suspect the missionaries in my area - Provo - do not tract much. I don't begrudge them that. Tracting is a very inefficient use of missionary time. I'd much rather see missionaries sitting at a computer and talking to someone about the Gospel via text chat or Skype than to see them going door-to-door.

 

I live within a stake associated with the Utah Provo Mission, as well. After the last transfers, we became the only stake within the mission to have a set of full-time missionaries assigned to our stake. (A year+ ago they were assigned to cover 7 stakes.) These missionaries are English speaking, and they are kept very busy, not just with in-person teaching opportunities, but also with online opportunities.

 

The missionaries use the computers in the FHC at the stake center to do their online work for a few hours each day.

 

We also have Spanish-speaking missionaries assigned to our stake and an adjoining stake. They are "mapped" to the Spanish-speaking ward in our stake that takes in membership from the two stakes. They are kept busy, as well.

 

Member support is key to effective missionary teaching opportunities.

 

-Allen

[Hamba Tuhan]

Is there any way for us to help?

It would seem to me that we have a central role to play, a point being emphasised by all of the recent training materials made available online as well as in leadership broadcasts, Conference talks, etc.

I'm curious how they're finding these investigators from around the world? Are they referrals from the missionary's friends and families back home?

I have no clue the exact details -- and I rather suspect that our missionaries in these parts will be amongst the last to be supplied with new technology -- but reading/watching all of the training materials on the web site launched in conjunction with the recent training broadcast has given me a few ideas. One of the things I did immediately after pouring over all of this training material was to link my mormon.org and Facebook accounts. Now anyone who happens onto my profile on the former site can navigate to my Facebook page and PM me or even just 'friend me'. At the same time, my Facebook friends now have access to an online version of my testimony.

Since doing this, I've received (and accepted, something I've previously been disinclined to do) two Facebook friend requests from complete strangers, one in Indonesia and one in Ghana. They were both interested in talking to me about faith and religion, and we've had some really good chats so far. Conversations with the man in Ghana progressed to the point that he'd earlier asked if we had a nearby church he could visit. (He lives in a small and rather remote town on the border with Cote d'Ivoire.) I checked on mormong.org, and the nearest branch is about 100 km away. It was my plan to work with him some more and then see if I could get the missionaries from this branch to travel to his town to meet with him, but I'm just now realising that I can probably get missionaries somewhere else to start teaching him remotely at this point, and then they can coordinate with the missionaries nearby. I'll talk to him about this possibility the next time we're online together.

I've become 'prayer partners' with my Indonesian friend. She tells me tough things in her life and asks if I will pray for her, which I do. She is already a Christian and says that what I post online has helped to strengthen her faith in Christ. I'm glad ... and look forward to the day when I can refer her to missionaries, whether in Indonesia or elsewhere. (The Church in Indonesia is still only present in a handful of cities in Java and a few regional centres in the Outer Islands.)

Member support is key to effective missionary teaching opportunities.

Precisely! Whether by providing referrals, assisting in the teaching, or being the 'real' people who will be welcoming other referrals into our wards and branches and supporting them in their continued growth in the Church.

[Hamba Tuhan]

Germans are even less open to door-to-door than Americans, and yet we did get let in relatively often. To me, people who say "Nobody will open their doors during certain times" haven't really spent enough time trying to be able to say this.

I'm glad people frequently let you in. I can honestly say that in approximately five months of tracting every single evening in the dark, we didn't have a single person let us in. Usually people would come to their doors and, without opening them, ask, 'Who is it?' Upon hearing our response, they would say, 'Come back when it's light out', and on we'd go to the next house. Maybe I just didn't spend enough time trying?

This “down time” is getting bigger and bigger (missionaries in our mission are not allowed to tract, so they have tons of "ineffective time"...

I'll happily agree that this ban on tracting in your mission sounds odd, though obviously I don't know the local circumstances. If you read more of the blog I linked to above, you'll notice that Elder Nelson and his fellow missionaries in Santa Rosa are still spending most of their time each day contacting directly at doors and in public.

[Hamba Tuhan]

Reading a bit more of Elder Nelson's blog provides a few more details of how he's using technology to help people. In this post he mentions how he's been working with a woman in Germany who was referred to him by members in a Facebook group. In addition, he provides the following about another person he's started working with:

 

I taught another girl named Sky! she actually lives here in arcata. We were out contacting people in downtown arcata towards the end of the night. We talked to this awesome couple who werent interested but told us thier daughter actually lived in erda for a few years at a boarding school of some sort. They said she loved it and that she almost was going to join the mormon church but that she moved back here and never did. Well before they left I asked them if we could add their daughter on facebook. And they said they would get my name and tell her and let her make the decision so we said okay. Well the next day i got her friend request and started a conversation with her.

 

One of the appeals this kind of interaction has for me is the empowering of the non-member in the exchange. I think the interaction must feel 'safer' for a lot of people than a visit at the door. In the example above, the invitation was given, but it was up to the woman to act on it. Having acted on it, she'll feel more in control of what is to come. I realise that this is all a bit of perception since LDS missionaries have never done anything but offer polite invitations, but perception = reality in so many situations. I've noticed this situation with the two Facebook friends I mentioned above. They are the ones who contacted me and initiated conversations. They're the ones who asked me questions about the Church after having first looked over my Facebook page and determined what kind of person I am. There's no way this can be a bad thing.

 

By the way, note where the missionaries were and what they were doing when they made this contact.

Edited October 19, 2013 by Hamba Tuhan

[Hamba Tuhan]

Update: I just had a bit of a chat with the brother in Ghana. He seemed busy, though, as there were long gaps between his responses, but we managed to talk about how God is still a God of miracles, and I wished him a joyful time at his church service tomorrow. As we chatted, both on our mobiles, I was also able to clean my car in preparation for the Sabbath and also boil some dumplings. Further updates to come.

 

ETA: Further update. He said he'd be happy to meet with missionaries but in person. I'll see what I can do.

Edited October 19, 2013 by Hamba Tuhan

[omni]

I'm glad people frequently let you in. I can honestly say that in approximately five months of tracting every single evening in the dark, we didn't have a single person let us in. Usually people would come to their doors and, without opening them, ask, 'Who is it?' Upon hearing our response, they would say, 'Come back when it's light out', and on we'd go to the next house. Maybe I just didn't spend enough time trying?I'll happily agree that this ban on tracting in your mission sounds odd, though obviously I don't know the local circumstances. If you read more of the blog I linked to above, you'll notice that Elder Nelson and his fellow missionaries in Santa Rosa are still spending most of their time each day contacting directly at doors and in public.

This makes more sense, I was under the impression they were going to eventually phase out tracting altogether. I believe working with social media can be an effective tool as long as it's done in conjunction with traditional methods. I think it will be most effective in those situations where safety is a concern, areas where they are no current missionaries or for people who experience some kind of social apprehension.

I agree with Rongo that all of these virtual discussions should lead as quickly as possible to live interactions--I just don't believe anything can replace it in the long run. I'm still confused as to why missionaries are receiving referrals to teach people who live in other countries. Why not have a virtual chat with missionaries in their area that know their language and culture and can eventually meet them in person?

[rongo]

I'm glad people frequently let you in.

"Frequently" would be pushing it. Most of the time, we were not let in. But, several times a week, yes. We also street contacted, did area book work, and ward list work.  Door-to-door was usually around 7-8 hours a day. I enjoyed it, and had many good conversations and experiences on my mission from it.

 

I can honestly say that in approximately five months of tracting every single evening in the dark, we didn't have a single person let us in. Usually people would come to their doors and, without opening them, ask, 'Who is it?' Upon hearing our response, they would say, 'Come back when it's light out', and on we'd go to the next house. Maybe I just didn't spend enough time trying?

 

Wow. Not a single "Come in!" over five months? No, you obviously spent enough time trying. Did you have better success during the day? We would "door out" an area, meaning we went morning, afternoon, and night until we had reached everyone in a street(s). When people said "Come back at another time," we took them up on it (usually, they weren't serious).

 

People were overly-interested in our door-to-door records (they were bothered that we kept them). I would ask "Do you want us to come back?" "No, of course not." "That's why I wrote KI (Kein Intresse ---- no interest) next to your apartment number." "I still don't think you should write anything." "(Smile). So, do you want us to come back?" . . . We didn't just randomly knock on doors --- we kept records and knew who we hadn't contacted, who had no interest, who had "gummi" (weak) interest, who said to come back later, etc. And we followed up on it.

 

Five months with no positive result is brutal, even by tough European standards. That hasn't been my experience in the U.S. (Chicago, Arizona). Where did you serve?

[rongo]

 I believe working with social media can be an effective tool as long as it's done in conjunction with traditional methods.

omni, did you ever go five months without a single positive response tracting in your European mission? I'm trying to wrap my mind around this being possible in the U.S.

 

When I got home from my mission, I frequently went with the missionaries in the Chicago mission. Once, their appointments fell out, and they didn't know what to do. I suggested that we knock on some doors, and they were nervous ---- they had never done it. We were let in on the third one (a row of duplexes), and the woman was in a hurry (but she did let us in). We introduced the Book of Mormon, left it with her, and made a return appointment. They were amazed and excited (they had something new and exciting to write home about). You don't get let in 1/3 of the time, but you never get in if you don't knock.

 

This was around 8:00 at night . . .

[Tiki]

Those who die without the knowledge of the internet or WiFi, will have their work done for them in the Temples... I really dont think this will phase out tracting and door knocking.

[omni]

omni, did you ever go five months without a single positive response tracting in your European mission? I'm trying to wrap my mind around this being possible in the U.S.

. . .

I didn't teach a single discussion for the first couple months, but I think that was more as a result of me killing my dad and he was pretty trunky there at the end. Once I became senior companion we taught quite regularly, but I think a lot of that was the fascination of having two American boys in their homes speaking their language. In one large city when we would visit the poorer government housing areas we were almost treated as celebrities. Groups of kids following us around asking for our autographs, those were some good times. Of course there were hours at a time where our feet ached and we didn't talk to a single person--I prefer focusing on the good times. Edited October 19, 2013 by omni

[Duncan]

I didn't teach a single discussion for the first couple months, but I think that was more as a result of me killing my dad and he was pretty trunky there at the end. Once I became senior companion we taught quite regularly, but I think a lot of that was the fascination of having two American boys in their homes speaking their language. In one large city when we would visit the poorer government housing areas we were almost treated as celebrities. Groups of kids following us around asking for our autographs, those were some good times. Of course there were hours at a time where our feet ached and we didn't talk to a single person--I prefer focusing on the good times.

 

 

where did you go?

[Hamba Tuhan]

We also street contacted, did area book work, and ward list work.  Door-to-door was usually around 7-8 hours a day. I enjoyed it, and had many good conversations and experiences on my mission from it.

We did roughly the same mix of work when we were assigned to country towns or residential suburbs. Like you, I really enjoyed tracting much of the time. So often it felt a bit like a game show: What On Earth Is Behind This Door? As just one example, I clearly remember a man opening the door without a stitch of clothing on and then apologising for being too busy to talk to us.

 

Wow. Not a single "Come in!" over five months?

Nope. Not on winter evenings. Thankfully, I spent much of my second winter in the city, so we were able to street contact/street preach/contact in subway stations til going-home time.

 

Did you have better success during the day?

Yes, much, much better. Usually, if people were home, they would talk to us at the door at least. (I did serve in one heavily Italian Catholic suburb where the most common response to our knocking was for the person to run to an upstairs window to tell us she wasn't interested.) And they were overwhelmingly polite, too. Getting inside a door was still pretty rare, though it did happen now and then, but we sometimes had long conversations at the door or on the front verandah. I loved tracting on long summer evenings because everyone would be outside, so we didn't even have to knock. And they'd be cheerful and chat with us as a general rule. I still have a book of self-published poetry (I'd call it 'verse') from an elderly man who invited us in one evening, and I will never forget knocking on the door of Mrs Studley one summer evening and having her invite us in to eat the ratatouille she was just then finishing preparing.

But very little of this led anywhere outside of (hopefully!) creating some goodwill. I trained a new missionary my first summer, and we set a goal to give away a Book of Mormon that first month. It took us all month to do so, though, and when we went back for our pre-arranged follow-up visit, we found the book inside a shopping bag hanging on the door with an apologetic note. In many areas where both the streets and the driveways were long and where both parents were working outside of the home, tracting during the day resulted in hours and hours of knocking on doors behind which no one was home. We did it anyway, though, because I didn't go on a mission to do nothing, and I knew that our efforts would be worth it if a single person embraced our message.

 

When people said "Come back at another time," we took them up on it (usually, they weren't serious).

Same. We always took very careful notes and followed up with anyone who told us to stop 'round another time. We would also retract streets at different times of day, visiting just the houses that had been empty earlier.

 

Five months with no positive result is brutal, even by tough European standards.

Mind you that my statement applied specifically to winter evenings. I literally had no 'positive result' knocking doors once the sun went down, even though we did it in the absence of anything else. By the way, I also went a solid six months without teaching a single lesson to a single person at one point.

 

Where did you serve?

In the New England area. It was indeed tough in many ways. It really suited me, though, because when we did get a response, we knew we had something. People didn't agree to anything just out of politeness. I kept track over the course of my mission, and fully half of all the people I ever gave a Book of Mormon to joined the Church whilst 75% of those who allowed me to teach them a lesson did so. And I did end up teaching quite a few people, but in virtually every case the Lord brought them to us. I always told myself that faithfully knocking on doors was the currency I paid to let Him know I was the kind of missionary He could bring people to.

But I think it would have been silly of me to choose to do what I did if there had indeed been a more productive route to be taken.

Edited October 21, 2013 by Hamba Tuhan

[Robert F. Smith]

The elders also mentioned one other benefit to this: The Church has begun calling missionaries who are staffing call centers and online chat lines 24-7. Many (most? all?) of these missionaries have physical impairments or other issues which prevent them from serving a traditional mission. However, their work consists almost exclusively of teaching people the Restored Gospel.

In other words, online missionary efforts represent a significant new opportunity for church members who have previously been unable to serve missions.

Thanks,

-Smac

Since there are such call centers worldwide, that is the only way they are staffed 24/7.  These otherwise disabled missionaries serve during regular hours. They also go to their local temple as veil workers once a week.  We had them on our shift at the Provo Temple for a long time (they now serve on another shift), and they are great guys.  They are not restricted to a geographic area, teach the Gospel discussions, and turn investigators over to distant missionaries in some distant land when it comes time for baptism.  Sister missionaries also staff such centers (there is one in SLC).