Faith Crisis: A Perspective

[bdouglas]

Othello has always been one of my favorite Shakespeare plays, perhaps I relate to it more than, say, Macbeth or Hamlet. Why does Othello kill himself in the end? Is it because he was jealous? That is the answer I might have given in high school but it is not the answer I would give now. In my view Othello (and I’m just an ordinary person, a businessman who likes to read Shakespeare) kills Desdemona and then himself because his ideal, his entire world-view, has been smashed. He has gone thru a sort of faith crisis in which everything he held dear was blown to smithereens and there is nothing left for him to live for. I love these lines he speaks:

O farewell,

Farewell the neighing steed, and the shrill trump,

The spirit-stirring drum, th' ear-piercing fife;

The royal banner, and all quality,

Pride, pomp, and circumstance of glorious war!

And O you mortal engines, whose rude throats

Th' immortal Jove's dread clamors counterfeit,

Farewell! Othello's occupation's gone.

Reading this, I can almost imagine Hans Mattson saying:

“Gone are the mission conferences, where a hundred voices were upraised in singing ‘Ye Elders Of Israel’, gone are the General Conferences when I mingled with prophets, seers and revelators, and God was not in his heavens but there with us, among us; gone are the days when I knew who I was and what I was destined to become; gone are the days of certitude and faith, days when there was a spring in my step and a light in my eyes. These days are gone, never to return.”

Othello killed himself, but I doubt there is any chance of Hans Mattson killing himself (let’s hope not!). He has described his faith crisis as an “earthquake”, the single greatest upset in his life, everything else paling in comparison (I am perhaps interpolating a bit here). In a certain LDS internet forum there was a post that went something like, “What were you doing when you first realized the church wasn’t true?” Reading the various responses to this post it was interesting to me to note that, just as I can remember what I was doing when Richard Nixon stood in front of the White House and resigned the presidency (I was a child then), so these people can remember the day and very specific details about what they were doing and where they were when they first came to the realization that “the church was not true.”

For people who have gone through this, “earthquake” is not too strong a word––at least not for some of us. I realize there are some (a cousin of mine, for example) who come to this realization in an undramatic way, and not only is not like an earthquake, it comes as more of a relief: they never much liked going to the temple, paying tithing and attending meetings anyway. For these people, there is no bitterness and lashing out; rather they say, “I am grateful for my mission experience. I learned discipline, and that I could do hard things; and when I came home and went to college I was a much better student than I might have been if I hadn’t gone on a mission.” Such people remain in some ways cultural Mormons, and they don’t feel the need to “resign from the church” or attack the organization they once served.

But here I’m talking about the other kind personality, the Othello kind of personality, i.e., the “all-or-nothing personality”. Several years ago I read a book called The Enigma Of Suicide, and in this book were profiled several cases of all-or-nothing personality suicides. These profiles, the stories of these suicides disturbed me deeply, because years earlier I had almost become one of them.

The all-or-nothing personality is not unusual. You can find such personalities at BYU, or in any mission of the church. We were the elders who, on p-day, instead of horsing around with other missionaries, were in a corner somewhere listening to language tapes or memorizing discussions. We were the missionaries who got up at 5:30 instead of 6:30, and had already run three miles by the time our companions woke up. We were the students at BYU who stood out as idealists in a university where idealism is the norm.

Today when I see such students or missionaries, or read about them––well, I shudder; and when I read about the suicides of such young people in books like The Enigma Of Suicide, I say to myself, “There but for the grace of God go I.”

Here is the story of my first (and worst) faith crisis (I have had more than one, and so far have always come through okay), in a nutshell (since I don’t want to try your patience by going on too long):

I was a college student, had recently become engaged, and it was the Christmas holidays and I was in Northern Idaho trying to sell yellow page ads. For the most part I wasn’t a very good salesman, wasn’t having very much success, and it was also very cold. I had a room in a run down motel. There was a gas heater that worked intermittently, and I was sitting close to it, trying to get warm. There was music coming from the room next to me. It wasn’t loud, but it was loud enough so that it bothered me. I’d been a rock 'n roller in high school but after my mission I couldn’t stand any kind of rock ’n roll, or really pop music of any kind. I had learned to love classical music, and it was the only kind of music (besides the Mo-Tabs or scores from Broadway musicals) I could listen to that didn’t “mess me up spiritually”. This was a big deal for me, and I once came very close to exchanging blows with a college roommate I once had who would not turn down his “Mettalica” (or whatever it was he was listening to). I turned on the TV, thinking maybe I could find something on the TV that was less offensive to me than the music. This was literally the first time since before my mission that I had actually turned on a TV and watched something. It was kind of a novel experience for me. It was 8 or so in the evening, and there was an NBC “movie of the week” on––or something like that. It was about a guy who is really a janitor or something but is pretending to be an airplane pilot and a girl who is really a hooker but is pretending to be a dancer. For me, who at the time was as complete and entire a virgin as it was possible for any young man to be, it was kind of racy material––even though today such a show would barely merit even a PG-rating. For a few minutes I found the show mesmerizing, and I forgot about the offending music coming from the room next door; but then suddenly I became disgusted with myself for watching such “crap”, and I turned the TV off. After all, there was work to be done! I needed to be studying! I had work to do, life-goals to achieve! I belonged to God’s one-true church, and He loved me, and I prayed to him every morning and every night, and the words from the D&C that said “Look unto me in every thought; doubt not; fear not” were never far from my mind. It was my credo, the thing I lived by, and watching trash-TV was not compatible with this credo. So I turned the TV off and picked up my well-worn triple combination. But I found that my mind was dark––and there was still that damned music coming from the room next door. I got up off the bed and opened the door and went out into the cold and knocked on the door of the room next door. A young man, older and tougher than me, opened and asked what I wanted.

“Would you mind turning your music down?” I asked. “I’m next door and I’m trying to study.”

“F—— you,” he said, and slammed the door in my face.

I went back to my room and sat on the bed. I don’t remember how long I sat there, but presently I heard a voice. Was this an audible voice, or only a voice in my head? To this day I can’t say for sure, but for me the distinction was not important because the voice was real, and unmistakable:

“There is no god. You have been deceived.”

I jumped up, walked once or twice up and down the room. It is impossible to describe the panic, the intense anxiety that I felt. “Earthquake” is inadequate to describe what I felt at that moment. The first thought that came to mind was to kill myself, and I looked at the gas heater in the wall and wondered how I might gas myself to death with it, I don’t remember but I might even have gotten down on my hands and knees and fiddled with the controls. It wasn’t that I’d spent two years on a mission and the few years since totally engrossed and involved with the church and I was engaged to be married in the temple in a few short months, it was that my entire being was founded on a certain world view and a belief in God which I’d just been told was a fraud. Continuing to live after this was unthinkable––or so I felt. I did not want to live in such a world––I could not live in such a world. (I have always wondered at the newly converted atheists who talk about the exhiliration they feel after finally confronting the meaningless of the cosmos, about how happy they are, etc.)

To put into words my thought processes at this moment is really impossible, partly because there was nothing rationale about what was going through my head or what it had occurred to me to do about it (kill myself). The music was still coming from the other room, and I felt as though I were spiraling into madness. Without thinking, I grabbed my parka and gloves and went out into the cold. The scene in King Lear when Lear is out on the heath in a raging storm––well, I have always liked this scene. Would it seem presumptuous of me to say to say that I have some idea what Lear was feeling during those moments? Like me, his ideals had been shattered, demolished, smashed, and compared to what was going on inside his head, the storm was nothing. I walked and I walked. It was dark and it was snowing and it was probably 5 degrees or so and I was crying, just sobbing.

I don’t know how long I walked. Eventually I was picked up by someone, a man. I don’t how or why I was picked up by this man, or what he said to me or what I said to him. I do remember how I sat there, hugging the passenger door in his truck, still crying. At some point I ended up at pay phone. I stood inside the booth and called my father collect, and out it came––all of it. I don’t remember but I think I must’ve been on the phone with him for 20-30 minutes, and afterwards everything was okay again. God was in his heavens again, the cosmos were restored, and I went back to my room and slept.

I am today still in the church, and I count myself a believer, and when the day comes when “there is a separation among the people” (D&C 1) I hope to be found in the camp of the saints. But I cannot say for sure that I will; none of us can, for we do not know what the future holds.

I have told this story––well, I don’t know why I have told it. Maybe because I hope we can all exercise love and compassion and all of the understanding we can muster for those who find themselves in the midst of a faith crisis. I do not today remember a word my father said to me when I called him in crisis that night so many years ago, all I remember is that he listened to me.

Edited July 25, 2013 by bdouglas

[ERayR]

Having read your post and your plea to be heard I am compelled to answer I hear you. The problem is I cannot help you because you refuse to hear me. The one thing I am saying that you must hear is that you are where you are at because of your own choices. The "earthquakes" are the result of how you chose to react to certain information. You have every right to make whatever choices you wand but please accept them as your own. Othello chose suicide nobody chose it for him. You chose how much credence in and how to react to certain information, nobody chose for you, Accept that you are the master of your own destiny.

[Tacenda]

Bdouglas that is quite a story. I keep thinking that the voice that told you that there is no God, was Satan. That's probably what you were referring when you said it suddenly got dark or you had a dark feeling. I think Satan works hardest on people that are doing everything possible to do what's right. At least that's what my mom would say.

I can relate to your story somewhat, I was trying to cross all the t's and dot all the i's too but not quite like you, but what has come of me is that I don't know if I can say that I believe but think it's a safe place to be, that of being LDS. The light is among the people. But I really haven't checked it out anywhere else yet, except for once a few months ago I went to a Baptist service. It was different but not terrible.

It's a big world out there, just today I read on another forum, where someone said that they were playing a video game "live" with someone he didn't know. It was a Muslim guy. And this Muslim started talking to him about his religion. Asking the same questions a missionary for our church would ask. And he even testified about his faith and the Quran and about praying to know if it's true.

Now my problem is that I have an obsession for all things Mormon now. How am I ever going to break away, even if wanted to?

Anyway, good story and good to read another perspective to help one know they're not alone.

P.S. Below...those days are never gone...because you lived them, they will forever be in your memory and are apart of you. Just make more memories and possibly help others in even better ways.

"Gone are the mission conferences, where a hundred voices were upraised in singing ‘Ye Elders Of Israel’, gone are the General Conferences when I mingled with prophets, seers and revelators, and God was not in his heavens but there with us, among us; gone are the days when I knew who I was and what I was destined to become; gone are the days of certitude and faith, days when there was a spring in my step and a light in my eyes. These days are gone, never to return.”

[rpn]

What a powerful testimony of holding to the rod in the midst of darkness.

[bdouglas]

Thanks for reading my post and sharing your comments, all of you. ERayR: I do listen to you, and always appreciate what you have to say. You have always been kind to me on this forum, and I appreciate that.

[oats]

Crisis of faith do occur outside of religious belief. It can happen in regard to anything in which we place our faith. The way faith works, its mechanisms, is repeated a hundred times over to various degrees in all our lives. The systems in which we place our degrees of faith may differ in icons, in ends, in symbologies, and in purposes. Nonetheless we do place in them faith that can be decimated.

I empathize with your story. With Othello's predicament. Let me relate a story. I hope, as I type, I can keep it concise.

I grew up in a very very white middle class community (and province), in the North East. As a result I was probably more biased and bigoted than an average high school grad simply due to ignorance and lack of exposure. I decided to serve a mission. During the mission I taught mostly people on the lower end of the economic scale in the inner city and in small towns. I was in a similar country - the cars, buildings, brands were all the same - but there were subtle differences. As a missionary I looked for open dialogue, for candor and connection. But it was nowhere to be found. The people's hearts were generally closed. This was odd. I taught among latinos and they are very open. Especially the newer immigrants. There is a generally a joy they carry. But after a few years in the US they tend to become more closed, a little scared, troubled. Like you might act when you feel like you've got to watch your back because if you don't there's someone that will take advantage. The change was very distinct in my eyes. I saw people openly taking advantage of the economic ignorance of a people who were easy to exploit. I saw economies built around exploiting immigrants, really. I was in the epicentre of one of the big housing bust markets during the peak years. I've got great numerical abilities and economic sense so I was keenly aware that all the numbers I could put together (because I am and was super nosey about the monetary value of everything) didn't really make sense.

Anyways, I left with a great deal confused. I knew something was amiss and I really felt a distaste for the area I served. I talked to tens of thousands of people and ate in hundreds of homes. And in the end I couldn't help but feel there was something pervasive and wrong about the entire area. Some underlying rot I didn't understand.

Now, you have to understand I am very easily motivated by money. My childish understanding was that if I worked hard and did good work then I would be rewarded commensurately. So I worked through junior high, through high school, through university. I paid all my mission, all my education, and graduated with a good sum. I followed the stock markets a little and decided to throw in some money to test the waters (this was early '09, they were a bit rough). Anyways, with some skin in the game you tend to become more interested. So you try to figure out what is going on. If X happens how will Z respond. I like to dig into things. So I become interested in mapping out the flow of money, its circle of life, and the reflexive nature of different components of the financial world. Only to find that, essentially, it's pretty much a giant ponzi scheme. That the rules that govern our currency are easily manipulated by people with no qualms about the ethics of their decisions and the rules they create. This was shattering. This understanding shattered this ideallic childhood-ish understanding I had about the market, money, and any inherent fairness. I cannot say how much this affected my vision and plan for my life.

Now, going back to why I detailed a little of my mission experience, I believe that had I not had the exposure to what amounted to another world this would not have been so impacting. But the social imbalances and issues where I served I now connected to market behaviour and my own behaviour. I realized how my choices and lifestyle could impact others. Which is mostly the reason why I had to (and am still) reevaluating how I live and what I do. But I must emphasis that I recognize this 'shock' and crisis of faith is essentially the same as what people who experience a crisis of faith in the church encounter. It has a different faith, a different subject, but the process and mechanics are the exact same.

So there I sat (as I still sit) bewildered by this new understanding that completely changed the game of life. I felt like I had trained all my life to participate in the great exciting sport of hockey and now, as I arrive in the arena, I feel like I've encountered a game of basketball. My understanding 'leveled up' like charmander evolves into a charizard at level 36. I saw with a child like understanding and then suddenly things became less concrete and I was overtaken by a more adult understanding.

I must say that I did have a crisis of faith equivalent with my belief in the church as well. My reaction was not quite as intense but there was a lot of mental struggle. However I think I attribute this to my 'first' crisis of faith. Just like the first time you run a marathon, the first time you skydive, or even when you first receive a testimony of the gospel - it's a bit of a rush. The second time it becomes more clinical, more scientific and a little less overwhelming. I feel like I knew how to react more appropriately when I faced this event with my belief in the gospel. There was some maturity and experience behind my approach. I made myself less vulnerable to the sensationalism that affected how I reacted to my 'first crisis of faith'.

So these faith crisis, and people's reactions, have been a topic on my mind for many years now. I've dabbled through the exmormon sites since I was a teenager, I've seen the stories, the attitudes, the approaches. I recognize them in real life now. I recognize these crisis can happen in regard to any imperfect, undeveloped construct that we, as humans, create and use as a foundation of faith.

Regardless of what people decide once the rush of this new found perspective abates, is the 'faith crisis' a necessary part of our growth as individuals? Is it a product of our sensationalized world and how we think we should react? I'm inclined to think the transition from a child-like understanding to an adult-like perspective could be less turbulent. That our culture may impact how we think we are supposed to react. People where I live are mild mannered. Extremism is not in our culture. All my life I've seen people stop attending church who continued to remain friendly to their brothers and sisters. They've gone their own paths but there is still respect. Now, in the past several years, with some friends and family alike, I've seen more of the extremist defections from the church. I've seen adults acting in very very childish manners, burning bridges, becoming hostile, subversive and deceptive to their friends, families and acquaintances in the church. I don't know what has spurred this and the only connection I can make is that the stories they read on the internet condition their reactions and how they think they are supposed to react. Or maybe in general the people I love are becoming more extremist? I don't know. I had a chat with a family member who left the church years ago. I respected her because for years I never got the impression that she tried to manipulate or influence other people's beliefs. She was no evangelist, she just seemed to afford the same respect back which people were affording to her. But recently, as she's hopped onto the atheist bandwagon, she has become a bit deceptive in her intentions and efforts as she tried to influence (it's her 'secret plan') people away from the church. This is a notable change in attitude and action. She claims when she left the church there was no influence from the internet. Now I'm not so sure about the internet's role in the development of this new attitude.

Anyways, to end this rant. There are plenty of social institutions in which we place our faith, which guide our actions. I think with the internet and the electronic world we will see more and more challenges to our childish understandings of those institutions. We are beginning to see the fruits of the technology we've rapidly been incorporating into our world the past 3-4 decades. The insufficiencies of our long held institutions and traditions in this new world are beginning to come to light. These crisis of faith will happen more and more until we learn to navigate through them in a mature manner or we become numb and averse. I think this condition should be openly recognized. It happens and it will continue to happen as we awaken to the new realities we have constructed. Maybe we should offer some instruction to people about how to navigate these crisis without becoming susceptible and vulnerable to nefarious characters and intents. I'm not sure. I just really hate to see these crisis accompanied by actions that seem so degrading and childish, by the two-facedness that happens.

Thanks to bdouglas for sharing your perspective and experience.

I'm hesitant to hit 'Post' because I do not want to see how long this has become. I definitely not rereading this until tomorrow so I apologize at any inconsistencies/errors.

Edited July 25, 2013 by oats

[canard78]

I loved reading your post bdouglas. Anything with Shakespeare analogies is good by me.

[The Nehor]

Does my near suicide when they cancelled Firefly mean I am an all or nothing personality.

[Calm]

My understanding 'leveled up' like charmander evolves into a charizard at level 36

Sweet, best pokemon ever btw.

[Calm]

Does my near suicide when they cancelled Firefly mean I am an all or nothing personality.

That you even need to ask means that and so much more.....

[The Nehor]

That you even need to ask means that and so much more.....

Well, I did learn it is impossible to OD on pixie sticks so I will chalk it up as a learning experience. Next time I will use Sweet Tarts.

[Calm]

So these faith crisis, and people's reactions, have been a topic on my mind for many years now. I've dabbled through the exmormon sites since I was a teenager, I've seen the stories, the attitudes, the approaches. I recognize them in real life now. I recognize these crisis can happen in regard to any imperfect, undeveloped construct that we, as humans, create and use as a foundation of faith.

I agree that such crises can occur in almost any type of relationship, whether it's with organizations or individuals.

My most 'shocking' crisis came as a result of finding out the two women who I felt myself most connected to in my life at that time, who I assumed would for the most part naturally understand my POVs and feelings, 'get me' so to speak, doing somethings in their lives that I would never have considered doing, that I looked upon as a betrayal of self even....and yet they were, if not comfortable in doing such things, felt it was appropriate and natural to their situations. For some reason, this caused me to be overwhelmed with a sense of loneliness, like there would never be anyone out there in the world that would ever be able to truly understand me...because if these two women were so different from me after all where I couldn't understand their choices on a gut level even if I could clinically follow their thought processes, then surely the same must exist for me...that they would never understand all of my choices on a fundamental level.

Since communication and establishing relationships has always been so important to me, for awhile I was very depressed thinking 'why bother, actual relationships are just a mirage we talk ourselves into'. Eventually I came to terms with it, mostly through feeling that it didn't really matter if all these others who I thought were close to me didn't actually see me for whom I was because there was at least one person...well, three actually...who did and that was God and that we are promised that in time we will know as we are known, so that sense of pure isolation diminished.....and I now take nothing for granted when it comes to expecting others to have the same sort of assumptions that I have about the world, which has made for a lot less disappointment and a more interesting dialogue...at least from my side of things.

[bdouglas]

I loved reading your post bdouglas. Anything with Shakespeare analogies is good by me.

Thanks for the kind words. I always read your posts because I can relate to what you say.

[bdouglas]

Crisis of faith do occur outside of religious belief. It can happen in regard to anything in which we place our faith. The way faith works, its mechanisms, is repeated a hundred times over to various degrees in all our lives. The systems in which we place our degrees of faith may differ in icons, in ends, in symbologies, and in purposes. Nonetheless we do place in them faith that can be decimated.

I empathize with your story. With Othello's predicament. Let me relate a story. I hope, as I type, I can keep it concise.

I grew up in a very very white middle class community (and province), in the North East. As a result I was probably more biased and bigoted than an average high school grad simply due to ignorance and lack of exposure. I decided to serve a mission. During the mission I taught mostly people on the lower end of the economic scale in the inner city and in small towns. I was in a similar country - the cars, buildings, brands were all the same - but there were subtle differences. As a missionary I looked for open dialogue, for candor and connection. But it was nowhere to be found. The people's hearts were generally closed. This was odd. I taught among latinos and they are very open. Especially the newer immigrants. There is a generally a joy they carry. But after a few years in the US they tend to become more closed, a little scared, troubled. Like you might act when you feel like you've got to watch your back because if you don't there's someone that will take advantage. The change was very distinct in my eyes. I saw people openly taking advantage of the economic ignorance of a people who were easy to exploit. I saw economies built around exploiting immigrants, really. I was in the epicentre of one of the big housing bust markets during the peak years. I've got great numerical abilities and economic sense so I was keenly aware that all the numbers I could put together (because I am and was super nosey about the monetary value of everything) didn't really make sense.

Anyways, I left with a great deal confused. I knew something was amiss and I really felt a distaste for the area I served. I talked to tens of thousands of people and ate in hundreds of homes. And in the end I couldn't help but feel there was something pervasive and wrong about the entire area. Some underlying rot I didn't understand.

Now, you have to understand I am very easily motivated by money. My childish understanding was that if I worked hard and did good work then I would be rewarded commensurately. So I worked through junior high, through high school, through university. I paid all my mission, all my education, and graduated with a good sum. I followed the stock markets a little and decided to throw in some money to test the waters (this was early '09, they were a bit rough). Anyways, with some skin in the game you tend to become more interested. So you try to figure out what is going on. If X happens how will Z respond. I like to dig into things. So I become interested in mapping out the flow of money, its circle of life, and the reflexive nature of different components of the financial world. Only to find that, essentially, it's pretty much a giant ponzi scheme. That the rules that govern our currency are easily manipulated by people with no qualms about the ethics of their decisions and the rules they create. This was shattering. This understanding shattered this ideallic childhood-ish understanding I had about the market, money, and any inherent fairness. I cannot say how much this affected my vision and plan for my life.

Now, going back to why I detailed a little of my mission experience, I believe that had I not had the exposure to what amounted to another world this would not have been so impacting. But the social imbalances and issues where I served I now connected to market behaviour and my own behaviour. I realized how my choices and lifestyle could impact others. Which is mostly the reason why I had to (and am still) reevaluating how I live and what I do. But I must emphasis that I recognize this 'shock' and crisis of faith is essentially the same as what people who experience a crisis of faith in the church encounter. It has a different faith, a different subject, but the process and mechanics are the exact same.

So there I sat (as I still sit) bewildered by this new understanding that completely changed the game of life. I felt like I had trained all my life to participate in the great exciting sport of hockey and now, as I arrive in the arena, I feel like I've encountered a game of basketball. My understanding 'leveled up' like charmander evolves into a charizard at level 36. I saw with a child like understanding and then suddenly things became less concrete and I was overtaken by a more adult understanding.

I must say that I did have a crisis of faith equivalent with my belief in the church as well. My reaction was not quite as intense but there was a lot of mental struggle. However I think I attribute this to my 'first' crisis of faith. Just like the first time you run a marathon, the first time you skydive, or even when you first receive a testimony of the gospel - it's a bit of a rush. The second time it becomes more clinical, more scientific and a little less overwhelming. I feel like I knew how to react more appropriately when I faced this event with my belief in the gospel. There was some maturity and experience behind my approach. I made myself less vulnerable to the sensationalism that affected how I reacted to my 'first crisis of faith'.

So these faith crisis, and people's reactions, have been a topic on my mind for many years now. I've dabbled through the exmormon sites since I was a teenager, I've seen the stories, the attitudes, the approaches. I recognize them in real life now. I recognize these crisis can happen in regard to any imperfect, undeveloped construct that we, as humans, create and use as a foundation of faith.

Regardless of what people decide once the rush of this new found perspective abates, is the 'faith crisis' a necessary part of our growth as individuals? Is it a product of our sensationalized world and how we think we should react? I'm inclined to think the transition from a child-like understanding to an adult-like perspective could be less turbulent. That our culture may impact how we think we are supposed to react. People where I live are mild mannered. Extremism is not in our culture. All my life I've seen people stop attending church who continued to remain friendly to their brothers and sisters. They've gone their own paths but there is still respect. Now, in the past several years, with some friends and family alike, I've seen more of the extremist defections from the church. I've seen adults acting in very very childish manners, burning bridges, becoming hostile, subversive and deceptive to their friends, families and acquaintances in the church. I don't know what has spurred this and the only connection I can make is that the stories they read on the internet condition their reactions and how they think they are supposed to react. Or maybe in general the people I love are becoming more extremist? I don't know. I had a chat with a family member who left the church years ago. I respected her because for years I never got the impression that she tried to manipulate or influence other people's beliefs. She was no evangelist, she just seemed to afford the same respect back which people were affording to her. But recently, as she's hopped onto the atheist bandwagon, she has become a bit deceptive in her intentions and efforts as she tried to influence (it's her 'secret plan') people away from the church. This is a notable change in attitude and action. She claims when she left the church there was no influence from the internet. Now I'm not so sure about the internet's role in the development of this new attitude.

Anyways, to end this rant. There are plenty of social institutions in which we place our faith, which guide our actions. I think with the internet and the electronic world we will see more and more challenges to our childish understandings of those institutions. We are beginning to see the fruits of the technology we've rapidly been incorporating into our world the past 3-4 decades. The insufficiencies of our long held institutions and traditions in this new world are beginning to come to light. These crisis of faith will happen more and more until we learn to navigate through them in a mature manner or we become numb and averse. I think this condition should be openly recognized. It happens and it will continue to happen as we awaken to the new realities we have constructed. Maybe we should offer some instruction to people about how to navigate these crisis without becoming susceptible and vulnerable to nefarious characters and intents. I'm not sure. I just really hate to see these crisis accompanied by actions that seem so degrading and childish, by the two-facedness that happens.

Thanks to bdouglas for sharing your perspective and experience.

I'm hesitant to hit 'Post' because I do not want to see how long this has become. I definitely not rereading this until tomorrow so I apologize at any inconsistencies/errors.

Interesting. Thanks for sharing this. Yes, there are all kinds of faith crisis. I remember reading about the famous atheist Madeline O'Hara's (name?) son, how he grew up atheist, and then began to doubt his "faith"--and ended up becoming a Christian. So it can go both ways. Recently I've read about institutions that have been set up in Israel for extreme orthodox Jews who step out of their small insulated communities and extremely narrow mindsets into the larger secular world, and the adjustments that are required and resulting trauma. Very interesting.

Edited July 26, 2013 by bdouglas

[bdouglas]

What a powerful testimony of holding to the rod in the midst of darkness.

I'm glad you saw it that way. That's the way I see it all of these years later. However, if I had the same experience today I don't know if I would come through it so well.

[bdouglas]

Bdouglas that is quite a story. I keep thinking that the voice that told you that there is no God, was Satan. That's probably what you were referring when you said it suddenly got dark or you had a dark feeling. I think Satan works hardest on people that are doing everything possible to do what's right. At least that's what my mom would say.

I can relate to your story somewhat, I was trying to cross all the t's and dot all the i's too but not quite like you, but what has come of me is that I don't know if I can say that I believe but think it's a safe place to be, that of being LDS. The light is among the people. But I really haven't checked it out anywhere else yet, except for once a few months ago I went to a Baptist service. It was different but not terrible.

It's a big world out there, just today I read on another forum, where someone said that they were playing a video game "live" with someone he didn't know. It was a Muslim guy. And this Muslim started talking to him about his religion. Asking the same questions a missionary for our church would ask. And he even testified about his faith and the Quran and about praying to know if it's true.

Now my problem is that I have an obsession for all things Mormon now. How am I ever going to break away, even if wanted to?

Anyway, good story and good to read another perspective to help one know they're not alone.

P.S. Below...those days are never gone...because you lived them, they will forever be in your memory and are apart of you. Just make more memories and possibly help others in even better ways.

"Gone are the mission conferences, where a hundred voices were upraised in singing ‘Ye Elders Of Israel’, gone are the General Conferences when I mingled with prophets, seers and revelators, and God was not in his heavens but there with us, among us; gone are the days when I knew who I was and what I was destined to become; gone are the days of certitude and faith, days when there was a spring in my step and a light in my eyes. These days are gone, never to return.”

I have wondered about that "voice" too, that voice I heard. I wouldn't say this anywhere else, but even after all of these years, looking back on the experience, I think that it was the devil--or a devil. And I definitely do believe in the devil. If I'm going to believe in God I have to believe in a Devil.

Edited July 26, 2013 by bdouglas

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

I'm glad you saw it that way. That's the way I see it all of these years later. However, if I had the same experience today I don't know if I would come through it so well.

Too often I think we see ourselves as weaker the older we get, but the truth is we have more life's experience to sustain us and we see the greater loss.