Call No Man Father?

[3DOP]

Just go to any Bible website and type in "father". See how many times Scripture and often Jesus Christ Himself uses the word "father" to designate human fathers.

Contrary to what some seem to think, the Catholic Church does not change the text in Mt. 23 so as to allow us to call our priests "Father". Mt. 23:9 is in the Gospel that is read every year on the Second Tuesday of Lent in the 1962 Missal. The Novus Ordo uses the same reading for a Sunday Mass, what they call the Thirty-First Sunday in Ordinary TIme:

And call none your father upon earth; for one is your father, who is in heaven.

---Mt. 23:9

It isn't a problem of translation. As usual, it is a problem of interpretation.

Edited June 28, 2013 by 3DOP

[Stargazer]

Just the same, it could be inappropriate for a non-LDS to address an LDS bishop as "Bishop" or an SP as "President".

No it wouldn't be at all inappropriate. I see no logic in that at all. What do you base that on?

[Stargazer]

Joseph Smith referred to John Tanner as Father Tanner due to all the care he provided for many members.

In fact, it was the custom during that time to use Mother and Father as titles of respect to older men and women in one's community. Presuming of course that they had had children.

According to Lt Col Hal Moore, among the Sioux, warriors called every woman in the tribe "Mother" and every older warrior "grandpa":

Of course, with some of the older warriors, you might want to be careful of what you call them!

Edited June 30, 2013 by Stargazer

[strappinglad]

I don't mind calling a Catholic priest Father, but I refuse to call my town mayor Your Worship !

[Ahab]

Just go to any Bible website and type in "father". See how many times Scripture and often Jesus Christ Himself uses the word "father" to designate human fathers.

Contrary to what some seem to think, the Catholic Church does not change the text in Mt. 23 so as to allow us to call our priests "Father". Mt. 23:9 is in the Gospel that is read every year on the Second Tuesday of Lent in the 1962 Missal. The Novus Ordo uses the same reading for a Sunday Mass, what they call the Thirty-First Sunday in Ordinary TIme:

---Mt. 23:9

It isn't a problem of translation. As usual, it is a problem of interpretation.

How do you interpret it, then?

Paul said: And call none your father upon earth; for one is your father, who is in heaven.

How do you interpret that to mean it's okay to call men our father upon earth when Paul is apparently telling us not to do that?

[ERayR]

We tend to expect other faiths to call our missionaries "Elder". I would think we would share the same respect of calling them some appropriate title, doesn't have to be "Father". I think I would go with "Your Reverence".

I would be uncomfortable using a title that had connotations of subservience I would be more comfortable addressing them as Sir, or Mr. or by name rather than by title.

Edited June 28, 2013 by ERayR

[ERayR]

I don't have a problem with basic, standard titles, including "Father." But I like the 1950s solution, which is to call 'em "Padre."

No difference same title, different language.

[ERayR]

Just the same, it could be inappropriate for a non-LDS to address an LDS bishop as "Bishop" or an SP as "President".

No it wouldn't be at all inappropriate. I see no logic in that at all. What do you base that on?

Yes it would be inappropriate if they didn't recognize them as such.

[Tacenda]

Probably the same thing as a non LDS calling our bishop, bishop. Who acutally is sort of a father of a ward family, some will say.

Edited June 28, 2013 by Tacenda

[The Nehor]

When I got my current position it was new. The VP asked me to come up with a job title. I suggested "Omnipotent All-Knowing Semi-Benevolent Supreme Commander Ruler of All". He shot it down. Philistine......

[Ahab]

When I got my current position it was new. The VP asked me to come up with a job title. I suggested "Omnipotent All-Knowing Semi-Benevolent Supreme Commander Ruler of All". He shot it down. Philistine......

What else would you expect from a VP? You should have just told him that IS your title and that you are now his boss.

[The Nehor]

What else would you expect from a VP? You should have just told him that IS your title and that you are now his boss.

As salary was the next thing we were discussing I let him have his way. I got more money then I expected so it worked out.

[ERayR]

When I got my current position it was new. The VP asked me to come up with a job title. I suggested "Omnipotent All-Knowing Semi-Benevolent Supreme Commander Ruler of All". He shot it down. Philistine......

For me I would consider: Hey You as an appropriate title.

[strappinglad]

At an embassy dinner many years ago my comp and I were introduced to a gentlemen as Elder Smith and Elder Jones. The gentlemen said ," that's interesting, you guys have the same first name . "

[Ahab]

At an embassy dinner many years ago my comp and I were introduced to a gentlemen as Elder Smith and Elder Jones. The gentlemen said ," that's interesting, you guys have the same first name . "

Imagine being named King, like King Follet. For a while I wondered what country what country he was the king of until I learned that was his actual name. I sometimes wonder why we don't name more of our boys by that name.

[ERayR]

Imagine being named King, like King Follet. For a while I wondered what country what country he was the king of until I learned that was his actual name. I sometimes wonder why we don't name more of our boys by that name.

Rex would be the same thing, in Latin, and I can think of a lot by that name.

[3DOP]

Rex would be the same thing, in Latin, and I can think of a lot by that name.

ERay,

There is a sports talk radio show, The Jungle, it is called, with Jim Rome. Its been on since the 90's and I won't try to make a synopsis of it. Sometimes I hate it. I haven't listened much for the last few years but that has happened before and he draws me back only to offend me again. Anyway, one of the fun things they did once was to have an interview with a sports personality whose name was Rex. Amazingly they did like 30 plus days in a row with people of note in the sports world named Rex. Sometimes it was pretty obscure, but for the most part I knew them.

Not an uncommon name.

[Stone holm]

Attending Notre Dame's graduate school, I had no problem referring to the Priests as Father -- that is when I could pick out the priests from the regular students, it was even harder trying to identify the nuns. I don't think this is what Christ had in mind or was trying to get at. There was developing an undue respect for teaching scholars at the time and He was trying to cut through some of the gloss and hedges that the Rabbis had built up around the law and worship. Today, I don't think any priest when referred to as "Father" thinks that non-Catholics are doing it for any reason except to show their respect for other faiths. Culture has changed.

[Stargazer]

I like the Catholic Church. I think Saints are really cool, especially when they are patron saints of something. When I was in the US Army, and serving in a field artillery unit, I found that believe it or not they would bring up St. Barbara occasionally, as she is the patron saint of artillery. Most artillerists are NOT Catholic. And I doubt that the non-RCC artillerists venerate St. Barbara in any way, but there is just something kinda neat about having a patron saint of some activity. I was once a dues-paying member of the St. Gabriel Possenti Society, whose aim is to convince the RCC to make St. Gabriel Possenti the Patron Saint of Handgunners. Allegedly, St. Gabriel Possenti was a Catholic seminarian whose marksmanship and proficiency with handguns single-handedly saved the village of Isola, Italy from a band of 20 terrorists in 1860. A claim which has been disputed, but whatever.

There ought to also be a Patron Saint of Latter-day Saints. I would nominate 3DOP for the position, but since you have to be dead to be Sainted, this will have to wait.

I know, I am really weird.

Well, anyway, I have utterly no problem addressing a Catholic priest as "Father ____". Heck, a Protestant minister generally goes by "Reverend" doesn't he? Again no problem.

Where I do balk is talking about Mohammed and parenthetically saying "Peace Be Upon Him" every time. Abbreviated as PBUH, in English. I heard some non-Muslims use PBUH, especially when around Muslims and speaking about Mohammed, I guess to show respect. I just don't reverence the man above anyone. And for all that I would say "I am happy to meet you, Your Holiness" if I were to get a private audience with the Pope, there is no way in heck I would kiss his ring.

I am just a mass of confusion on this.

[Stone holm]

I like the Catholic Church. I think Saints are really cool, especially when they are patron saints of something. When I was in the US Army, and serving in a field artillery unit, I found that believe it or not they would bring up St. Barbara occasionally, as she is the patron saint of artillery. Most artillerists are NOT Catholic. And I doubt that the non-RCC artillerists venerate St. Barbara in any way, but there is just something kinda neat about having a patron saint of some activity. I was once a dues-paying member of the St. Gabriel Possenti Society, whose aim is to convince the RCC to make St. Gabriel Possenti the Patron Saint of Handgunners. Allegedly, St. Gabriel Possenti was a Catholic seminarian whose marksmanship and proficiency with handguns single-handedly saved the village of Isola, Italy from a band of 20 terrorists in 1860. A claim which has been disputed, but whatever.

There ought to also be a Patron Saint of Latter-day Saints. I would nominate 3DOP for the position, but since you have to be dead to be Sainted, this will have to wait.

I know, I am really weird.

Well, anyway, I have utterly no problem addressing a Catholic priest as "Father ____". Heck, a Protestant minister generally goes by "Reverend" doesn't he? Again no problem.

Where I do balk is talking about Mohammed and parenthetically saying "Peace Be Upon Him" every time. Abbreviated as PBUH, in English. I heard some non-Muslims use PBUH, especially when around Muslims and speaking about Mohammed, I guess to show respect. I just don't reverence the man above anyone. And for all that I would say "I am happy to meet you, Your Holiness" if I were to get a private audience with the Pope, there is no way in heck I would kiss his ring.

I am just a mass of confusion on this.

Yeah the Peace be Upon Him and kissing rings would be a bit over the top.

[Lightbearer]

I would probably use his "official title" (Bishop, Cardinal, Reverend, Pastor, Pope etc) but it would not be because I thought he held any priesthood authority at all. In fact I have heard LDS Bishops referred to as the "father of the ward" but we do not go around referring to him as Father. I guess whatever AP style is that is what I would call him. Now I do refer to Father Mulcahy on M*A*S*H* as "father" so I guess if the proper reference is father I may use it. That does not mean I consider him my "spiritual father". I only have two fathers, one I refer to as Daddy, and the other is my Heavenly Father.

As a side note when I was on my Mission a United Church of Canada priest referred to us as Mister instead of Elder even though we called him by his title. No big deal but I do understand the need for respect and civility. Even if some on this board my not think I do.

Edited June 30, 2013 by Lightbearer