Dying As An Act Of Contrition

[Mark Beesley]

I, too, have told on the board here how I had planned to commit suicide... it was all very logical for me. Being alone, widowed, no children, I'm concerned about my possible downward spiral into dementia or Alzheimer's... so I had planned very carefully how at just the right time (not too soon or too late) I would get my stockpile of pills... and after cleaning my house, making sure all was in order legally, and getting myself all ready, I would simply go in and lie down on my bed, take my pills, and go to sleep. All very calm... no mess... I was really serious and fully intended to carry out my plan because I could not bear the thought of losing my mind and being subjected to the treatment that can go on in "care" facilities... particularly since I had no one to make sure this didn't happen. And with my limited funds, I'd end up in a lesser or questionable facility.

Then I reactivated in the Church... I counseled with my bishop over this, and my plan became moot... now what? I still have the same dreadful fear of losing my mind (I've made it to 72 so far)... And I do have one of my nephews who has agreed to take care of the "crazy aunt" from Oregon if that happens... In the meantime, my daily prayer is that I will continue to have a brain andintellect that is clear and active and simply live out my life, enduring to the end... and trust that I will not end up in some facility where unspeakable things have been known to happen to little old ladies of diminished capacities...

from the beach on a beautiful Pacific Northwest morning... light rain showers then dappled sun visible through the leaves of the trees outside my window as I sit here typing this... grateful for a beautiful day...

GG

I thought you owned guns?

Glad you're still with us.

[Ahab]

I recently overheard a conversation in the library where a man was explaining to another man all about Eumenides (?) , where they slayed their enemies so the offenders could experience the final act of contrition. This is an idea that is new to me, though perhaps it is deeply embedded in religious thought.

Perhaps that is the origin of lack of forgiveness until the offender is dead? Something to ponder. Perhaps in certain arenas offenders are expected to kill themselves as proof of contrition?

Killing yourself is not an act of contrition. It's an act of escape, usually brought on by a feeling of shame.

When you're sorry or contrite about something you should want to make amends for what you see as a mistake you made, trying to do whatever you can to make it right for yourself and any others you may have affected. That's where repentance and restituion come in. To kill yourself is a coward's way out, almost as if you are running away rather than showing a desire to make amends.

[Ahab]

Jesus Christ did the same to atone for our sins.

No. What he did was to allow others to kill him, rather than calling down angels to fight for him or translating himself to avoid death. His body was mortal and he was going to die naturally anyway unless he performed some kind of miracle, and even if he did call down angels to fight for him his body would still have aged and grown old and died at some point from the effects of being mortal, so the only way he would have been able to avoid death totally would have been to be translated, and then he would only have been translated instead of resurrected.

There is no honor is committing suicide, regardless of what someone is thinking. We can sometimes choose how we die, like while trying to save somebody else, but for anyone to intentionally commit suicide when they could otherwise go on living is a waste of life and an attempt to escape the consequences of one's actions. It's always best to do what we can to improve our lives and the lives of other people we can help, rather than run away. Character flaws stay with us no matter where we go unless and until we learn how to overcome our problems.

[EllenMaksoud]

No. What he did was to allow others to kill him, rather than calling down angels to fight for him or translating himself to avoid death. His body was mortal and he was going to die naturally anyway unless he performed some kind of miracle, and even if he did call down angels to fight for him his body would still have aged and grown old and died at some point from the effects of being mortal, so the only way he would have been able to avoid death totally would have been to be translated, and then he would only have been translated instead of resurrected.

There is no honor is committing suicide, regardless of what someone is thinking. We can sometimes choose how we die, like while trying to save somebody else, but for anyone to intentionally commit suicide when they could otherwise go on living is a waste of life and an attempt to escape the consequences of one's actions. It's always best to do what we can to improve our lives and the lives of other people we can help, rather than run away. Character flaws stay with us no matter where we go unless and until we learn how to overcome our problems.

Apparently you need to clear your messages out so you can recieve more.

I am not committing suicide. But I feel that I was incorrectly taught about various aspects of the atonement, and that certain people want to attribute certain wrongs done to me as my fault.

[Calm]

No. What he did was to allow others to kill him, rather than calling down angels to fight for him or translating himself to avoid death. His body was mortal and he was going to die naturally anyway unless he performed some kind of miracle, and even if he did call down angels to fight for him his body would still have aged and grown old and died at some point from the effects of being mortal, so the only way he would have been able to avoid death totally would have been to be translated, and then he would only have been translated instead of resurrected.

If we assume that it is the fallen nature of mankind that allows for death, then why couldn't the sinless, pure nature of Christ protected him from the ultimate aspect of mortality once he had gone from grace to grace to full perfection which allowed him to become the infinite sacrifice?

[Garden Girl]

I thought you owned guns?

Glad you're still with us.

Hello Mark B

I do... but too messy... didn't want to traumatize whoever found me... but, it's all out of the question now. I simply have to exercise faith and endure to the end... and trust in the Lord...

Oh I still wish I could follow my original plan, because losing one's mind when one is really alone in the world is a frightening thing that possibly still looms over me. Those who have children can't possibly know what it's like to be aging, alone, and knowing one faces dementia... my original plan had nothing to do with contrition, arrogance or wanting to hurt anyone, or running away, etc etc.

It was simply to protect myself from perhaps years of sitting in some darned hallway, tied to a wheelchair, in wet diapers, neglected and stripped of my human dignity in some "care facility." That was my motivation...

GG

Edited June 13, 2013 by Garden Girl

[Ahab]

Apparently you need to clear your messages out so you can recieve more.

Thanks for that info. I didn't realize my box was full. It's clean, again, now.

I am not committing suicide. But I feel that I was incorrectly taught about various aspects of the atonement, and that certain people want to attribute certain wrongs done to me as my fault.

I understand and I wasn't making a judgment on you or your perspective. I was simply sharing some of what I know about suicide.

[Ahab]

If we assume that it is the fallen nature of mankind that allows for death, then why couldn't the sinless, pure nature of Christ protected him from the ultimate aspect of mortality once he had gone from grace to grace to full perfection which allowed him to become the infinite sacrifice?

You do realize that he was mortal, don't you? His body was like ours: he bled, he could be physically hurt and damaged, his body grew old and would have kept growing older and older until at some point his body would have given out even though his spirit was immortal, like ours. In every aspect his body was like ours, and he would have died, like we all do, unless he had translated himself but then he would still have needed to experience death, even if only in the twinkle of an eye, so he could then experience a full resurrection. He wasn't as Adam and Eve were before the Fall until he was resurrected.

[Ahab]

Hello Mark B

I do... but too messy... didn't want to traumatize whoever found me... but, it's all out of the question now. I simply have to exercise faith and endure to the end... and trust in the Lord...

Oh I still wish I could follow my original plan, because losing one's mind when one is really alone in the world is a frightening thing that possibly still looms over me. Those who have children can't possibly know what it's like to be aging, alone, and knowing one faces dementia... my original plan had nothing to do with contrition, arrogance or wanting to hurt anyone, or running away, etc etc.

It was simply to protect myself from perhaps years of sitting in some darned hallway, tied to a wheelchair, in wet diapers, neglected and stripped of my human dignity in some "care facility." That was my motivation...

GG

I can relate, although for me it's a long long way off, I think. Most of my family is handicapped and I'll likely be the one that outlives them all, or at least I kinda hope so so that I can be with them and none of them will die all alone. But then that will leave me all alone, except when I go out to Church or go shopping or fishing or what not, but primarily I'm a homebody who would rather be home than anywhere else so I kinda see myself dying inside my house or outside in my yard with nobody around to notice when I go. So I think about how those who find me, eventually, will find me wherever I lie. That's my concern. What kind of condition will my body be in when somebody eventually finds me, or my body. Kinda gruesome to think about, but I still think about it.

Why do you think you'd end up in some care facility? Who do you think would put you there? Why not just stay at or near home until you go, however you go? Nobody is going to be taking me to one of those dadnab freakin "care" facilities while I still have brreath in my body. There ain't no way no how anybody would ever get me to go!

[Garden Girl]

Why do you think you'd end up in some care facility? Who do you think would put you there? Why not just stay at or near home until you go, however you go? Nobody is going to be taking me to one of those dadnab freakin "care" facilities while I still have brreath in my body. There ain't no way no how anybody would ever get me to go!

Hello Ahab...

I would only end up in a care facility if I was mentally incapacitated... otherwise, as long as I have my mental health, I will stay at home in my own home... making my own decisions. And if for some reason I did have to seek "care" because I could no longer take care of myself, I'd at least be able to choose what and where... and be alert to speak up for myself as necessary.

The real fear I have is not being mentally alert and so it would be probably the bishop who would call in someone to put me somewhere... but I'm counting on my nephew, who currently lives back east, to move me somewhere near his family where they could at least look in on me... but with my limited funds, the facility would not be first rate and therein lies the problem. We've recently discussed this so I have some glimmer of hope. But I can't expect him to be financially responsible for any of my care. He has his own family to consider.

These are important factors for someone like me... and exactly why I had my original plan... All I can do now is pray that I'll continue to have my mental health, clear and active, and be in good enough physical shape that I can live at home and just have someone come in several times a week.

I know you say "no way" you'd be in a facility... but it's something you really need to think through.

GG

[Ahab]

Hello Ahab...

I would only end up in a care facility if I was mentally incapacitated... otherwise, as long as I have my mental health, I will stay at home in my own home... making my own decisions. And if for some reason I did have to seek "care" because I could no longer take care of myself, I'd at least be able to choose what and where... and be alert to speak up for myself as necessary.

The real fear I have is not being mentally alert and so it would be probably the bishop who would call in someone to put me somewhere... but I'm counting on my nephew, who currently lives back east, to move me somewhere near his family where they could at least look in on me... but with my limited funds, the facility would not be first rate and therein lies the problem. We've recently discussed this so I have some glimmer of hope. But I can't expect him to be financially responsible for any of my care. He has his own family to consider.

These are important factors for someone like me... and exactly why I had my original plan... All I can do now is pray that I'll continue to have my mental health, clear and active, and be in good enough physical shape that I can live at home and just have someone come in several times a week.

I know you say "no way" you'd be in a facility... but it's something you really need to think through.

GG

I've thought about it, and I wouldn't want it for any reason. It's not like it's a real "home", regardless of what they call it.

There are always options if you take the time to think about what they might be, and there are some things I will never do.

If nothing else, I'd take up mountain climbing and if I happened to fall or freeze, oh well, but it wouldn't really be on purpose.

[Tacenda]

I've thought about it, and I wouldn't want it for any reason. It's not like it's a real "home", regardless of what they call it.

There are always options if you take the time to think about what they might be, and there are some things I will never do.

If nothing else, I'd take up mountain climbing and if I happened to fall or freeze, oh well, but it wouldn't really be on purpose.

That's what I say, or something like parachuting etc.

[Garden Girl]

If nothing else, I'd take up mountain climbing and if I happened to fall or freeze, oh well, but it wouldn't really be on purpose.

Ah but Ahab... in your mind and heart it would be... the minute you let your foot slip, or knowingly exposed yourself to freezing temps, that would cross the line... believe me, I've thought of that also, but there's no way to willfully have an "accident."

GG