Stone holm Posted May 19, 2013 Posted May 19, 2013 It is interesting to note that the word of wisdom is just that, a recommendation. I know that in the last century the church has come down on the side of it being a commandment but the fact remains that for the first half of the history of the church all of the things mentioned in the word of wisdom were used by all in the church. I understand the principle of line upon line and that we are supposed to be held to a higher standard however when you consider that mild alcoholic drinks have been used and there use documented by our scriptures from the beginning it makes you wonder why the Lord suddenly changed his mind and told us no more.It has always been my understanding that The Lord was giving the Saints time to get their act together, kind of like with cola drinks today. The Brethren have from time to time made casual comments about not having them in their home which is kind of like the original status of the W of W. You also need to understand that alcohol use in the 19th century was much, much more heavy than today and people who by today's standards we would consider alcoholics back then were considered basically normal. It was difficult to transport corn and apples so whiskey and apple jack were trade commodities.
Questing Beast Posted May 19, 2013 Posted May 19, 2013 Being "tipsy" has to be a whole lot more desirable than dead from consuming spoiled food and drink! But if "tipsy" turns into falling down drunk and destroys your liver, kidneys and brain, then the use of fermentation has gone too far. As alcohol has been and is the single greatest "escape" from hardship and reality, it seems to me that "God" might want to use a religious proscription to better the world a tiny bit. The WoW justifies Mormonism all by itself....
Robert F. Smith Posted May 19, 2013 Posted May 19, 2013 It is interesting to note that the word of wisdom is just that, a recommendation. I know that in the last century the church has come down on the side of it being a commandment but the fact remains that for the first half of the history of the church all of the things mentioned in the word of wisdom were used by all in the church. I understand the principle of line upon line and that we are supposed to be held to a higher standard however when you consider that mild alcoholic drinks have been used and there use documented by our scriptures from the beginning it makes you wonder why the Lord suddenly changed his mind and told us no more.So your picture of early Mormons is that every one of them was chewing tobacco, smoking, and drinking booze. All of them. I can just see Emma with a chaw in her cheek, spitting at the spitoon, while Joseph enjoyed his Meerschaum pipe. A kingdom of priests and a holy nation?
Tacenda Posted May 19, 2013 Posted May 19, 2013 So your picture of early Mormons is that every one of them was chewing tobacco, smoking, and drinking booze. All of them. I can just see Emma with a chaw in her cheek, spitting at the spitoon, while Joseph enjoyed his Meerschaum pipe. A kingdom of priests and a holy nation?I think the advent of not receiving a TR unless you follow the WofW changed a lot of peoples habits. I just saw the movie The Great Gatsby, they talked about the roaring 20's and free flowing alcohol, things sure have evolved from then. I don't believe Emma chewed tobacco, but she probably drank wine and tea. Also, I always wondered when I'd read the supplies that were allowed on a handcart, and it included coffee. Yep, WoW didn't seem to be the commandment it is today.
Stone holm Posted May 19, 2013 Posted May 19, 2013 I think the advent of not receiving a TR unless you follow the WofW changed a lot of peoples habits. I just saw the movie The Great Gatsby, they talked about the roaring 20's and free flowing alcohol, things sure have evolved from then. I don't believe Emma chewed tobacco, but she probably drank wine and tea. Also, I always wondered when I'd read the supplies that were allowed on a handcart, and it included coffee. Yep, WoW didn't seem to be the commandment it is today.No question about that. Even BY chewed.
Robert F. Smith Posted May 19, 2013 Posted May 19, 2013 I think the advent of not receiving a TR unless you follow the WofW changed a lot of peoples habits. I just saw the movie The Great Gatsby, they talked about the roaring 20's and free flowing alcohol, things sure have evolved from then. I don't believe Emma chewed tobacco, but she probably drank wine and tea. Also, I always wondered when I'd read the supplies that were allowed on a handcart, and it included coffee. Yep, WoW didn't seem to be the commandment it is today.Correct, Tacenda.I was responding to ronin's irresponsible suggestion that everyone broke all the rules of the WofW. In fact, one reason for the WofW was Emma's objection to the ugly mess of chewing tobacco on her floor where the men missed the spitoon. The temperance movement was a big thing then also. A great many people, including many early Mormons, objected to smoking, booze, and any other use of stimulants. My own Methodist ancestors took the pledge and stopped drinking whiskey in about 1825. Turned out in retrospect that the money they spent on booze was put to better use, aside from their wives and children being much happier with dear old dad.It should be no secret that humans enjoy recreational drug use (whether legal or illegal), and that people cannot be forced to curtail such usage. That is why Prohibition was a failure, and why our modern war on drugs is a failure. The lessons come hard, and our justice system has been bedeviled by do-gooders who are intent on controlling the habits of others. 1
Bill “Papa” Lee Posted May 19, 2013 Posted May 19, 2013 Some of us were conditioned to be what others want us to be, and to finally stand our ground and become what Heavenly Father wants us to be is so difficult and unclear at times. To what extent do you go to in order to accommodate your non LDS friends? Would you drink coffee to be like one of them? Would you go dancing in far too little clothing? Would you wear the clothing of another culture to make them comfortable?I have seen other LDS women swimming in things I could not. How far to we take free agency?It is just my personality to never do as other do to fit in, but I do not use it as a reason to preach. At a meal I just wave off coffee, I say "no I don't drink and here is why". It is no ones business but mine.
EllenMaksoud Posted May 19, 2013 Author Posted May 19, 2013 It is just my personality to never do as other do to fit in, but I do not use it as a reason to preach. At a meal I just wave off coffee, I say "no I don't drink and here is why". It is no ones business but mine. Well, I have actually been very good until the other day when I gave blood. The next day I felt really awful and finally wound up at the hospital where the doc told me to stop giving blood and to not excercise at all. My brother wanted me to help him with his boat, so I finally had a cup of his coffee, strong enough to remove paint. I'm not going to do it any more.
ronin Posted May 19, 2013 Posted May 19, 2013 "all of the things mentioned in the word of wisdom were used by all in the church." Poor choice of words on my part I apologize. The fact still remains that the Lord does not change and that the whole point of the word of wisdom was not a commandment. The Lord intended us to live the higher law not the lower law where he has to spell everything out, hence the reason it was stated "all things in moderation". I won't get into the debate on whether mild drinks were considered beer or not but the fact remains beer was a staple of the people for thousands of years including in the early church up until the church sold its brewery in the early 1900s.
Bill “Papa” Lee Posted May 20, 2013 Posted May 20, 2013 Well, I have actually been very good until the other day when I gave blood. The next day I felt really awful and finally wound up at the hospital where the doc told me to stop giving blood and to not excercise at all. My brother wanted me to help him with his boat, so I finally had a cup of his coffee, strong enough to remove paint. I'm not going to do it any more.Not long after joining the Church (keep in mind I did not grow up in the church, but never liked coffee) I had to drink a cup on Army maneuvers, because we had not portable water. I should I say had to choke one down.
Calm Posted May 20, 2013 Posted May 20, 2013 (edited) Well, I have actually been very good until the other day when I gave blood. The next day I felt really awful and finally wound up at the hospital where the doc told me to stop giving blood and to not excercise at all. My brother wanted me to help him with his boat, so I finally had a cup of his coffee, strong enough to remove paint. I'm not going to do it any more.While I wouldn't encourage it on a regular basis (if only because it decreases the effectiveness), if one needs caffeine to help on the occasional effort or drive, having a bottle of No Doze around...which is caffeine in pill form.....would avoid the problem of having to take it in coffee or with so much sugar in soda (though I find that if I am taking it for energy, I need the sugar as well). Edited May 20, 2013 by calmoriah
EllenMaksoud Posted May 20, 2013 Author Posted May 20, 2013 While I wouldn't encourage it on a regular basis (if only because it decreases the effectiveness), if one needs caffeine to help on the occasional effort or drive, having a bottle of No Doze around...which is caffeine in pill form.....would avoid the problem of having to take it in coffee or with so much sugar in soda (though I find that if I am taking it for energy, I need the sugar as well).This giving blood is like totally disastrous for me, always has been. This last time, I think is the last, unless they want to have my casket waiting when they are finished. I have to admit, while looking at the floor and scuffing my foot, that I really liked coffee before. Curiously, I had just one cup a day, and it was weak, but with lots of Irish Creme and brown sugar in it, almost like I was having a spot of coffee with my creme and sugar. I thought to contend with the Holy Spirit on this issue, but the desire was taken from me suddenly. I think it was Heavenly Father letting me know that he has my back, and I am most grateful.
Tacenda Posted May 20, 2013 Posted May 20, 2013 This giving blood is like totally disastrous for me, always has been. This last time, I think is the last, unless they want to have my casket waiting when they are finished. I have to admit, while looking at the floor and scuffing my foot, that I really liked coffee before. Curiously, I had just one cup a day, and it was weak, but with lots of Irish Creme and brown sugar in it, almost like I was having a spot of coffee with my creme and sugar. I thought to contend with the Holy Spirit on this issue, but the desire was taken from me suddenly. I think it was Heavenly Father letting me know that he has my back, and I am most grateful. The yoke is light, why are we stressing over coffee, I can think of a lot worse things for your body, in fact your stress level over it, is what's bad for your body. I'm sorry you had to go through that.
EllenMaksoud Posted May 20, 2013 Author Posted May 20, 2013 The yoke is light, why are we stressing over coffee, I can think of a lot worse things for your body, in fact your stress level over it, is what's bad for your body. I'm sorry you had to go through that.Thank you for your kindness.
Calm Posted May 20, 2013 Posted May 20, 2013 I think it was Heavenly Father letting me know that he has my back, and I am most grateful. He has that way....I can't give blood due to my neurological/movement/sleep disorder....among other things. It drops my iron/ferritin levels too low and they take forever and a day to crank back up to barely normal plus I was once diagnosed with hypoglycemia (I have since discovered this was likely a result of being sleep deprived) and they told me never to give blood again. Since last time I had done so, I had almost passed out and had to stagger back to my dorm and spend the next two days in bed, I didn't argue. I assume they tested your blood sugar and stuff when you had problems after giving blood....but if not, make sure you have it done next doctor's appt. just in case.
EllenMaksoud Posted May 20, 2013 Author Posted May 20, 2013 He has that way....I can't give blood due to my neurological/movement/sleep disorder....among other things. It drops my iron/ferritin levels too low and they take forever and a day to crank back up to barely normal plus I was once diagnosed with hypoglycemia (I have since discovered this was likely a result of being sleep deprived) and they told me never to give blood again. Since last time I had done so, I had almost passed out and had to stagger back to my dorm and spend the next two days in bed, I didn't argue. Well, I gave blood; they had a hard time getting any, went over and sat down, and proceeded to pass out almost. They caught me before I actually fell. Later, I felt better and went home. Then I decided to ride my bike 12 miles the next day, but before I got two blocks, opted for the bus, thinking I would ride home because it is mostly down hill. It just kept getting worse and I rode the bus home.This is most inconvenient as I am usually quite active and with impunity.I assume they tested your blood sugar and stuff when you had problems after giving blood....but if not, make sure you have it done next doctor's appt. just in case.
Stone holm Posted May 20, 2013 Posted May 20, 2013 So will there be an exception for medical marijuana when the Feds pass legislation not to interfere with State program's?
EllenMaksoud Posted May 20, 2013 Author Posted May 20, 2013 Yes, they looked at my blood sugar. One number was 32 and it should have been 43. Another number was 16 before they took the blood and I do not know what it is now. They say that I could not give blood any more, but not exactly why.
EllenMaksoud Posted May 20, 2013 Author Posted May 20, 2013 So will there be an exception for medical marijuana when the Feds pass legislation not to interfere with State program's? Huh? I had a medical Marijuana card once but after trying it a couple times have decided that it is not for me, not ever.
Stone holm Posted May 20, 2013 Posted May 20, 2013 Huh? I had a medical Marijuana card once but after trying it a couple times have decided that it is not for me, not ever.Oh sorry that wasn't directed at your medical condition, it was directed at the the topic concerning the W of W.
Calm Posted May 20, 2013 Posted May 20, 2013 (edited) Yes, they looked at my blood sugar. One number was 32 and it should have been 43. Another number was 16 before they took the blood and I do not know what it is now. They say that I could not give blood any more, but not exactly why.You should check with your doctor why because it may have an effect on other things.It can be frightening to experience weakness and being so out of control of your body that you almost pass out when you are not used to it.If by chance the number 16 is related to your iron levels, you are likely right on the border of normal so definitely shouldn't give blood because you risk anemia.I don't have a clue what the 32/43 might related to. Blood sugar levels are usually supposed to be between 80 and 100. Edited May 20, 2013 by calmoriah 1
Questing Beast Posted May 20, 2013 Posted May 20, 2013 Caffeine is a stimulant. Coffee is a base flavor. Soda pop is fizzy water and an overdose of sweeteners and often caffeine. Any long term ingestion of strong ingredients is going to produce side effects and damage. Go figure. The WoW is supposed to get our thinking going in the area of promoting good health. Good health is core, essential, to feeling spiritual. It comes before feeling spiritual. A strong mind can transcend pain and discomfort to a degree, but most of us are distracted continually by pain and discomfort. Paradise is not populated by persons with physical ailments, only the healthy inhabit paradise. So by this reality check we can judge how sick our world is at this time.My father-in-law never drank any coffee or caffeinated soft drinks as a younger man. In his old age his heart slowed down too much, so he was prescribed caffeinated soft drinks as a medicine to stimulate his heart rate. That is how medicines work: you live a healthy dietary way, and then when you really need the ingredient to help out with a minor problem it works, instead of having to take some powerful, dangerous drug to help out the heart.... 1
Bill “Papa” Lee Posted May 20, 2013 Posted May 20, 2013 Good health is core, essential, to feeling spiritual. It comes before feeling spiritual. A strong mind can transcend pain and discomfort to a degree, but most of us are distracted continually by pain and discomfort. Paradise is not populated by persons with physical ailments, only the healthy inhabit paradise. So by this reality check we can judge how sick our world is at this time.Are you saying my illnesses are going to send me to outer darkness? Sad news for so many faithful who have died unhealthy. Could you expand on this a bit? I am sorry but this seems too harsh.
Questing Beast Posted May 20, 2013 Posted May 20, 2013 Paradise is perfect, and we ought to be doing all we can to get it "built". God is not going to give us what we already have the power to create. We have the power to create health within our own bodies. Exceptions are of course genetic, and also from a lifetime of ignorance one cannot escape the consequences. But once someone is converted to the truth that s/he is responsible for health, and now knows how to promote health, it is their responsibility to live by that new understanding. To not do so, and expect God to heal them, is fallacious, not faith.I never thought that my words would be taken to be some form of judgment for the hereafter. I am referring to the here and now, sorry about that....
Stone holm Posted May 20, 2013 Posted May 20, 2013 Paradise is perfect, and we ought to be doing all we can to get it "built". God is not going to give us what we already have the power to create. We have the power to create health within our own bodies. Exceptions are of course genetic, and also from a lifetime of ignorance one cannot escape the consequences. But once someone is converted to the truth that s/he is responsible for health, and now knows how to promote health, it is their responsibility to live by that new understanding. To not do so, and expect God to heal them, is fallacious, not faith.I never thought that my words would be taken to be some form of judgment for the hereafter. I am referring to the here and now, sorry about that....Ah yes, the old conundrum if we are obese because of gluttony do we get resurrected looking like a chubby Buddha. Always yearned for God to look a little more Buddha like, why is it we always depict Christ as either emaciated on the Cross or buff -- but never out of shape.
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