Prophecied Condemnation Comning To Pass?

[Darren10]

I recently shared the following with a nonLDS facebook/blogging/real life friend of mine and I'd like folk's take here. The following is a longer version of what I shared with me friend so I place in bold the portion I shared with him and the ortion I'm most interested in focusing on:

We warn that individuals who violate covenants of chastity, who abuse spouse or offspring, or who fail to fulfill family responsibilities will one day stand accountable before God. Further, we warn that the disintegration of the family will bring upon individuals, communities, and nations the calamities foretold by ancient and modern prophets.

The Family: A Proclamation to the World

Several things come to mind when I think of this portion of a decree from living prophets, seers, and revelators given without conditions "to the world". The focus here is explicitly on family. The Proclamation declares a specific constitution or framework regarding family. The first Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve proclaimed a warning to violations of specified aspects of family and that such violations will bring about calamaties prophecied of old and of new.

The first is covenant of chastity. Since this mentions "covenants" I think this applies directly to those who made covenants or promises. However, I see no reason why this may not apply to anyone who violates chastity so long as chastity is a covenant which should be upheld and lived by all the human race.

Here's a statistic to look at and which I think applies to both the covenants of chastity (highlited in red):

Every story is different, but when you examine the figures, actual single parent statistics may surprise you. According to Custodial Mothers and Fathers and Their Child Support: 2007, released by the U.S. Census Bureau in November, 2009, there are approximately 13.7 million single parents in the United States today, and those parents are responsible for raising 21.8 million children (approximately 26% of children under 21 in the U.S. today).

(snip)

She is Divorced or Separated:

Of the mothers who are custodial parents:

• 45% are currently divorced or separated
  
• 34.2% have never been married
  
• 19% are married (In most cases, these numbers represent women who have remarried.)
  
• 1.7% were widowed
  

Of the fathers who are custodial parents:

• 57.8% are divorced or separated
  
• 20.9% have never married
  
• 20% are currently married (In most cases, these numbers represent men who have remarried.)
  
• Fewer than 1% were widowed
  

http://singleparents.about.com/od/legalissues/p/portrait.htm

How many of these single parents who never married made explicit covenants of chastity is not known to me, nor can it be from my cited stats. But this does not change the fact that our Heavenly Father has designed sexual activity to be realized between husband and wife and under the LDS sense, specifically who are "legally and lawfully married". This means that a legal married must be performed and a "lawful" marriage must be performed before any sexual activity is to be acted upon. And when acted it is to be between husband and wife (between a man and a woman).

When at the minimum of 1/5 of our own society is not living this covenant yet all should be living this covenant than what are we to expcet to come down from heaven by our God? Blessings and rich rewards? Or shall we expect exactly what living prophets have proclaimed? To be sure, there is nothing wrong with offering love and support to any single parent, regardless of why they are a single parent. Their work load is tremendous and my wife and I have offered several times in the past and will most assuredly do so in the future to watch children of single parents so that they can have time to themselves. In short, we offer our services to help them with their needs.

Another thing which comes to mind is society's recent surge in accepting same sex marriage. While I normally do not trust the LA times, I've no reason to doubt the folowing statistics they recently published:

WASHINGTON -- A new public opinion survey is the latest to confirm a major social trend that shows no sign of ebbing: rising acceptance of same-sex marriage and homosexuality in America.

Fully one in seven adults (14%) say they’ve changed their mind about gay rights, often because they have a friend or family member who is gay, according to the new national poll by the independent Pew Research Center.

(snip)

In the 18-32 age bracket, support for same-sex marriage is at 70%. Ten years ago, among members of the same generation, it was 51%. But support for same-sex marriage has also increased among those born between 1928 and 1945; in 2003, just 17% were in favor, and today that figure is 31%.

Among those who’ve changed their minds about gay marriage, one in four (25%) say it’s just because they’ve grown older. One in five (20%) say today’s world is different and this change is inevitable. Nearly as many (18%) say they think that government should no longer intrude in people’s lives in this way and that individuals should be free to do what makes them happy. Almost one in three (32%) say it’s because they know someone who is gay. And 13% credit a belief in individual rights or various moral or religious teachings for their change of heart.

The shifting attitudes toward same-sex marriage closely track changing opinions about homosexuality. Today, a slight majority of Americans (51%) says that same-sex marriage isn’t a threat to traditional families. A decade ago, when Massachusetts became the first state to permit same-sex marriage, most people (56%) said the practice would undermine the traditional family and only 39% said it wasn’t a threat.

There's definitely a clear increase in accepting same sex marriage within our society. I've even come across with a few folks here which advocate for same sex marriage. Before commenting on how I see this in contrast to The Proclamation let me make clear my understanding of voting. The LDS Church in and of itself believes in the freedom to vote one's conscience as a sacred freedom. Its policies are clearly liberal regarding not interfering with one's voting decisions. The LDS Church "allows" (if that's the proper way to frame it) lots of leeway to allow its members to vote according to their conscience regardless of what LDS doctrine teaches. Therefore, a member may vote for same sex marriage and even legal abortion with no restrictions despite the LDS church's position against these immoral acts. But my focus is on societal acceptence of what is considered immoral acts by man, in this specific instance, homosexuality.

To those who have on this very forum said that allowing homosexuals to marry is in some way elevating society's morality, by equating homosexual marriage to heterosexual marriage, I point back to The Proclamation with its warning of volating "covenants of chastity" (which, again, I'll include meaning what should be a covenant of chastity) as well as return to the point that under an LDS view, a couple sexually active should be "legally and lawfully" married. With this in mind I candidly ask, when has homosexual behavior ever been considered "lawful" before the eyes of God? Of course society may "legalize" it via marriage (society can "legalize" anything) but has homosexual marriage ever been "lawful" before God? I cannot think of a single instance when it has. Homosexual behavior has always been unlawful behavior ever since the divine mortal nature of our existence began with Adam and Eve.

So, as society accepts homnosexual marriage, what should society expect to receive from on high? More rich blessings from the Maker? Spiritual peace and contentment? What makes more sense to me is an assurace that man will be the recipient of calamaties prophecied of old and of new.

I also include failure to meet family obligations when society accepts single parenthood as a norm. It is impossible for a single parent to do "just as good a job" as a couple who determine together to raise their children. In fact it is both prudent and applicable to read some of the first and central portions of The Proclamation. They read:

We, the First Presidency and the Council of the Twelve Apostles of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, solemnly proclaim that marriage between a man and a woman is ordained of God and that the family is central to the Creator’s plan for the eternal destiny of His children.

All human beings—male and female—are created in the image of God. Each is a beloved spirit son or daughter of heavenly parents, and, as such, each has a divine nature and destiny. Gender is an essential characteristic of individual premortal, mortal, and eternal identity and purpose.

In the premortal realm, spirit sons and daughters knew and worshiped God as their Eternal Father and accepted His plan by which His children could obtain a physical body and gain earthly experience to progress toward perfection and ultimately realize his or her divine destiny as an heir of eternal life. The divine plan of happiness enables family relationships to be perpetuated beyond the grave. Sacred ordinances and covenants available in holy temples make it possible for individuals to return to the presence of God and for families to be united eternally.

The first commandment that God gave to Adam and Eve pertained to their potential for parenthood as husband and wife. We declare that God’s commandment for His children to multiply and replenish the earth remains in force. We further declare that God has commanded that the sacred powers of procreation are to be employed only between man and woman, lawfully wedded as husband and wife.

(snip)

The family is ordained of God. Marriage between man and woman is essential to His eternal plan. Children are entitled to birth within the bonds of matrimony, and to be reared by a father and a mother who honor marital vows with complete fidelity. Happiness in family life is most likely to be achieved when founded upon the teachings of the Lord Jesus Christ. Successful marriages and families are established and maintained on principles of faith, prayer, repentance, forgiveness, respect, love, compassion, work, and wholesome recreational activities. By divine design, fathers are to preside over their families in love and righteousness and are responsible to provide the necessities of life and protection for their families. Mothers are primarily responsible for the nurture of their children. In these sacred responsibilities, fathers and mothers are obligated to help one another as equal partners. Disability, death, or other circumstances may necessitate individual adaptation. Extended families should lend support when needed.

(Bold mine to emphasize pertinent portions to this thread)

According ot these portions, by accepting homosexual behavior, man is not only violates the covenant of chastity but also the very the role of gender. From an LDS perspective gender is not limited to motality; but is eternal. When man accepts that which is in direct contrast to the framwork God Himself has set, what else would man expect from heaven but the calamities prophecied of old and of new? This does not mean man must vote in society against homosexual marriage no matter what, but regardless of the leeway the LDS Church (in my opinion correctly asserts) offers its member on voting as a citizen of their respective countries, would not the end result be the same? That the aforesaid calamaties will come forth at some time?

Here's what triggered my facebook post to my friend. The horrific site of the Boston Marathon bombing has lead thus far to the likely probability that a foreign national was involved. So far as I know there is not conclusive evidence made known to the public and even if their was we as a people should reserve judgement of guilt until after the accused passes through a court of law. Nevertheless, if there was a foreign national involved, which, again, there is reason to suspect, that easily, and justifiably so far as I'm concerned, results in "rumors of war". That plus the direct and explicit threat from North Korea in authorizing a full nuclear strike against the United States also results, justifiably, in rumors of war. Then there's Iran and Syria to deal with. This excludes our militray involvement, however heavy or light, in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Lybia all within the last decade alone. Regardless of your political support or lack thereof for our military actions around the world, I ask if all these "wars and rumors of wars" are a result of the "disintigration of the family" as per The Proclamation? Are these part of the calamaties modern-day prophets have recently warned the world will come as they the world violates chastity and neglect the family. By neglect I most definitely include violating the nature of the family.

[omni]

Regardless of your political support or lack thereof for our military actions around the world, I ask if all these "wars and rumors of wars" are a result of the "disintigration of the family" as per The Proclamation? Are these part of the calamaties modern-day prophets have recently warned the world will come as they the world violates chastity and neglect the family. By neglect I most definitely include violating the nature of the family.

What about all those actual wars, you know like WWI, WWII, etc., that occurred in the past when the family was more intact and gay marriage was just a figment of our imaginations (at least the deviant ones)? Were they a result of the disintegration of the family?

Edited April 17, 2013 by omni

[CV75]

What about all those actual wars, you know like WWI, WWII, etc., that occurred in the past when the family was more intact and gay marriage of just a figment of our imaginations (at least the deviant ones)? Were they a result of the disintegration of the family?

Yes, there were actual wars...

Since the dis-integration of the family (Satan’s enmity with God and Cain’s enmity with Abel, as examples) has always had dire consequences, such consequences cannot be allayed except by practicing love (familial love specifically, since love always begins within the home, which begins with traditional marriage and the rest of the elements of the Proclamation). Due to the cascading effects of family disintegration (and “dys-integration”), the foretold calamities will naturally follow unless people take heed to the warning.

[Darren10]

What about all those actual wars, you know like WWI, WWII, etc., that occurred in the past when the family was more intact and gay marriage of just a figment of our imaginations (at least the deviant ones)? Were they a result of the disintegration of the family?

World War I = 1914 to 1918

World War II = 1939 to 1945

Neither of which the United States got involved immediately and when it did their presence was significant (even game changing) yet limited in comparison to other nation's involvement. there's the Vietnam war which broke out during a "cultural revolution" where sexuality became much more open and "freer" than from the "traditional constraints" of marriage. That war had the United States intimately involved. The Korean War was bad as well though frankly I cannot think of anything decaying the family regarding that war. The Cold War was means of preservering freedom for the United States but it's called "cold" for a reason. So while the Cold war definitely resulted in rumors of wars I'll say that it ocurred during a time of higher divorce, more liberated sexuality, and self-serving sexual exploration on a cultural level. You can find ample evidence of this in movies, songs, and art displays during the time ofthe Cold War.

As for the wars mentioned: WWI, WWII, the Vietnam War, the Korean War, they came about over a long time period. A period of several decades. The Iraq War, Afghanistan War, as well as military involvement in Lybia, North Korea's intimate provocation against the US for no other reason than us having ideological differences (and perhaps for Kim Jong-unto hold onto his power) have all happened in the last decade alone.

Is it me or are "wars and rumors of wars" accelerating over the last few years?

Edited April 17, 2013 by Darren10

[Darren10]

Due to the cascading effects of family disintegration (and “dys-integration”), the foretold calamities will naturally follow unless people take heed to the warning.

That's my thinking. If all mankind is to live in a "covenant of chastity" as per the Father's will to receive His full blessings than moving opposite to that covenant wll naturally result in calamities.

[Bikeemikey]

World War I = 1914 to 1918

World War II = 1939 to 1945

Neither of which the United States got involved immediately and when it did their presence was significant (even game changing) yet limited in comparison to other nation's involvement. there's the Vietnam war which broke out during a "cultural revolution" where sexuality became much more open and "freer" than from the "traditional constraints" of marriage. That war had the United States intimately involved. The Korean War was bad as well though frankly I cannot think of anything decaying the family regarding that war. The Cold War was means of preservering freedom for the United States but it's called "cold" for a reason. So while the Cold war definitely resulted in rumors of wars I'll say that it ocurred during a time of higher divorce, more liberated sexuality, and self-serving sexual exploration on a cultural level. You can find ample evidence of this in movies, songs, and art displays during the time ofthe Cold War.

As for the wars mentioned: WWI, WWII, the Vietnam War, the Korean War, they came about over a long time period. A period of several decades. The Iraq War, Afghanistan War, as well as military involvement in Lybia, North Korea's intimate provocation against the US for no other reason than us having ideological differences (and perhaps for Kim Jong-unto hold onto his power) have all happened in the last decade alone.

Is it me or are "wars and rumors of wars" accelerating over the last few years?

I was under the impression that we are living in one of the safest most peaceful least violent times in the history of the world.

Less people die from violence than at any other time in the history of the world... Though more in the USA than other first world nations.

Edited April 17, 2013 by Bikeemikey

[Avatar4321]

I was under the impression that we are living in one of the safest most peaceful least violent times in the history of the world.

Less people die from violence than at any other time in the history of the world... Though more in the USA than other first world nations.

Im skeptical that that is at all accurate.

[Stone holm]

I was under the impression that we are living in one of the safest most peaceful least violent times in the history of the world.

Less people die from violence than at any other time in the history of the world... Though more in the USA than other first world nations.

Yeah, although I don't want to press my luck about when the judgment day may or may not be upon us, I find some of this stuff about how horrible the world is right now compared to the past a bit disconcerting given some of the very ugly times we have experienced. I remembered wondering if the world might be coming to an end during the Vietnam era where the generation gap was violently serious and people were calling for armed revolution on college campuses, etc. While things have started to look a little like the Robber Baron Era, I just don't see our current problems being quite as serious as in the past, although I am concerned that the austerity policies being imposed on Europe could play out in a repeat of the mid twentieth century, my faith is they will come to their senses before that.

[Bikeemikey]

Im skeptical that that is at all accurate.

Steven Pinker presents a good summation of the actual data in global violence. It is counter intuitive because the living individuals inherent lack of context ... But it is less violence.

However, the potential for catastrophic violence has never been greater. WMD anyone?

[ERayR]

http://www.ted.com/t...f_violence.html

Steven Pinker presents a good summation of the actual data in global violence. It is counter intuitive because the living individuals inherent lack of context ... But it is less violence.

However, the potential for catastrophic violence has never been greater. WMD anyone?

Its coming just hang on a few more years.

[Bikeemikey]

Its coming just hang on a few more years.

I hope not. I don't have my food storage sorted yet.

[Darren10]

I was under the impression that we are living in one of the safest most peaceful least violent times in the history of the world.

Less people die from violence than at any other time in the history of the world... Though more in the USA than other first world nations.

Are wars and rumors of war on the rise or not?

Besides, I do not know how to count for dying of heart disease before such records were kept throughout the world.

[Bikeemikey]

Its coming just hang on a few more years.

That has been the message of apocalypse minded folk for thousands of years... Not saying it won't happen but it might be time to consider the wonderful possibility of how incredible the could be in another thousand years if we manage to find the right balance.

[Darren10]

I hope not. I don't have my food storage sorted yet.

Twinkies last a long time though not recommended if you pan to preserve your life on food storage.

[Bikeemikey]

Twinkies last a long time though not recommended if you pan to preserve your life on food storage.

If it all goes to south real bad I would be happy to just pick up this whole thing on the other side o the veil.

[Questing Beast]

I don't see "the calamities as prophesied of old" as anything more than a dogmatic belief in specific prophecy. We have zero evidence of any such phenomenon. All "evidence" is given to us after the fact. When you show the two prophets in the city of Jerusalem, thrashing the nations for two years, and then lying in the street for three days, and then resurrecting and rising into "heaven" before the watching eyes of the world (easy to do these days), then I will allow that a prophesy in the scriptures that is millennia old has been fulfilled. But the power of it will be greatly diluted by the phenomenal technology we have today, and almost nobody will believe it because they will only see the "video" and not the reality. If thousands of physical eyes witness the event and testify that the Nooz got it right and nobody is tricking anybody with "special effects", then I will be mostly convinced. What it all will mean at that point is still not known. You will probably see it as literal vindication of your Judeo-Christian faith. I will suspect that some other-world powers are manipulating us for their own purposes. I will reserve judgment, wait and see, and continue to live as normally as I possibly can.

The OP said there is a correlation between sex and violent calamities visited upon the world by God. And when people are more righteous these calamities diminish. Well, I don't see in those statistics any indication that the majority of people deliberately go a whoring after Babylon. One fifth or one fourth of the population that have engaged in premarital sex is hardly a majority, and many or most of those individuals have children that they are trying to raise responsibly, i.e. they appear to have learned something about how life should be from their mistakes. Most people who allow that same-sex "marriage" should be allowed are not advocating that everyone should rethink their own sexual morality, but rather that those who love each other ought to be able to marry. People want fairness for all. That is actually a good thing, as is admitting that they have done some rethinking and changed in their attitudes toward those not the same as themselves. There is no reason to read into statistics the cause of "wars and rumors of wars", since that has been with us since the beginning of time....

[blackstrap]

The apocalypse can the relative to ones position. If you were in Germany during the firebombing ,that would be an apocalyptic event. If you were in Hiroshima when the A bomb hit, that would be a similar world shattering event. Those in the world trade center towers experienced the fires of hell. But, if one has only observed such events from the comfort of home or school, it is hard to FEEL the true horror. To me, it will only be the fulfillment of prophecy when the troubles are at least nation wide and society breaks down. That will happen when the prevailing attitude is " every man for himself " When the family dissolves, then your 'tribe' becomes the gang. Pockets of the US are there now.

[Shanky82]

I recently shared the following with a nonLDS facebook/blogging/real life friend of mine and I'd like folk's take here. The following is a longer version of what I shared with me friend so I place in bold the portion I shared with him and the ortion I'm most interested in focusing on:

The Family: A Proclamation to the World

Several things come to mind when I think of this portion of a decree from living prophets, seers, and revelators given without conditions "to the world". The focus here is explicitly on family. The Proclamation declares a specific constitution or framework regarding family. The first Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve proclaimed a warning to violations of specified aspects of family and that such violations will bring about calamaties prophecied of old and of new.

The first is covenant of chastity. Since this mentions "covenants" I think this applies directly to those who made covenants or promises. However, I see no reason why this may not apply to anyone who violates chastity so long as chastity is a covenant which should be upheld and lived by all the human race.

Here's a statistic to look at and which I think applies to both the covenants of chastity (highlited in red):

(snip)

http://singleparents.about.com/od/legalissues/p/portrait.htm

How many of these single parents who never married made explicit covenants of chastity is not known to me, nor can it be from my cited stats. But this does not change the fact that our Heavenly Father has designed sexual activity to be realized between husband and wife and under the LDS sense, specifically who are "legally and lawfully married". This means that a legal married must be performed and a "lawful" marriage must be performed before any sexual activity is to be acted upon. And when acted it is to be between husband and wife (between a man and a woman).

When at the minimum of 1/5 of our own society is not living this covenant yet all should be living this covenant than what are we to expcet to come down from heaven by our God? Blessings and rich rewards? Or shall we expect exactly what living prophets have proclaimed? To be sure, there is nothing wrong with offering love and support to any single parent, regardless of why they are a single parent. Their work load is tremendous and my wife and I have offered several times in the past and will most assuredly do so in the future to watch children of single parents so that they can have time to themselves. In short, we offer our services to help them with their needs.

Another thing which comes to mind is society's recent surge in accepting same sex marriage. While I normally do not trust the LA times, I've no reason to doubt the folowing statistics they recently published:

(snip)

There's definitely a clear increase in accepting same sex marriage within our society. I've even come across with a few folks here which advocate for same sex marriage. Before commenting on how I see this in contrast to The Proclamation let me make clear my understanding of voting. The LDS Church in and of itself believes in the freedom to vote one's conscience as a sacred freedom. Its policies are clearly liberal regarding not interfering with one's voting decisions. The LDS Church "allows" (if that's the proper way to frame it) lots of leeway to allow its members to vote according to their conscience regardless of what LDS doctrine teaches. Therefore, a member may vote for same sex marriage and even legal abortion with no restrictions despite the LDS church's position against these immoral acts. But my focus is on societal acceptence of what is considered immoral acts by man, in this specific instance, homosexuality.

To those who have on this very forum said that allowing homosexuals to marry is in some way elevating society's morality, by equating homosexual marriage to heterosexual marriage, I point back to The Proclamation with its warning of volating "covenants of chastity" (which, again, I'll include meaning what should be a covenant of chastity) as well as return to the point that under an LDS view, a couple sexually active should be "legally and lawfully" married. With this in mind I candidly ask, when has homosexual behavior ever been considered "lawful" before the eyes of God? Of course society may "legalize" it via marriage (society can "legalize" anything) but has homosexual marriage ever been "lawful" before God? I cannot think of a single instance when it has. Homosexual behavior has always been unlawful behavior ever since the divine mortal nature of our existence began with Adam and Eve.

So, as society accepts homnosexual marriage, what should society expect to receive from on high? More rich blessings from the Maker? Spiritual peace and contentment? What makes more sense to me is an assurace that man will be the recipient of calamaties prophecied of old and of new.

I also include failure to meet family obligations when society accepts single parenthood as a norm. It is impossible for a single parent to do "just as good a job" as a couple who determine together to raise their children. In fact it is both prudent and applicable to read some of the first and central portions of The Proclamation. They read:

(snip)

(Bold mine to emphasize pertinent portions to this thread)

According ot these portions, by accepting homosexual behavior, man is not only violates the covenant of chastity but also the very the role of gender. From an LDS perspective gender is not limited to motality; but is eternal. When man accepts that which is in direct contrast to the framwork God Himself has set, what else would man expect from heaven but the calamities prophecied of old and of new? This does not mean man must vote in society against homosexual marriage no matter what, but regardless of the leeway the LDS Church (in my opinion correctly asserts) offers its member on voting as a citizen of their respective countries, would not the end result be the same? That the aforesaid calamaties will come forth at some time?

Here's what triggered my facebook post to my friend. The horrific site of the Boston Marathon bombing has lead thus far to the likely probability that a foreign national was involved. So far as I know there is not conclusive evidence made known to the public and even if their was we as a people should reserve judgement of guilt until after the accused passes through a court of law. Nevertheless, if there was a foreign national involved, which, again, there is reason to suspect, that easily, and justifiably so far as I'm concerned, results in "rumors of war". That plus the direct and explicit threat from North Korea in authorizing a full nuclear strike against the United States also results, justifiably, in rumors of war. Then there's Iran and Syria to deal with. This excludes our militray involvement, however heavy or light, in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Lybia all within the last decade alone. Regardless of your political support or lack thereof for our military actions around the world, I ask if all these "wars and rumors of wars" are a result of the "disintigration of the family" as per The Proclamation? Are these part of the calamaties modern-day prophets have recently warned the world will come as they the world violates chastity and neglect the family. By neglect I most definitely include violating the nature of the family.

I think that the calamities that are about to come upon us are going to be far worse than wars and rumors of wars. I think that all these things are the beginnings of our sorrows.

[CASteinman]

Marion G. Romney did not have a particularly dynamic delivery. Consequently some people may not find this talk "listenable". But the message is very pertinent. It takes a while to get rolling. If you can make it to 6 minutes when it starts to move and then to its pivot point at about 10:30 you may find it to be an interesting talk as I do.

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_yMN-XoPQ0

And About this time President Kimball gave a roughly similar talk.

Edited April 17, 2013 by CASteinman

[CASteinman]

In this same conference, President Kimball gave this address. In which he gives a somewhat similar warning. His delivery is a bit more interesting and he gets moving along pretty quickly...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ydsbfpPxBc

[Avatar4321]

http://www.ted.com/t...f_violence.html

Steven Pinker presents a good summation of the actual data in global violence. It is counter intuitive because the living individuals inherent lack of context ... But it is less violence.

However, the potential for catastrophic violence has never been greater. WMD anyone?

Im still skeptical. There are more people now than ever and it was more violent in the past? We have greater weapons to do damage and it's more violent then? We just lived through the most violent century in the history of mankind and this next century isn't looking to be much different. Quite the opposite.

The problem we face is we are a culture that is so immersed in violence that we don't even recognize it. I know that sounds hard to comprehend, I didnt realize it myself until I cut out violent entertainment from my life for a week. It truly is everywhere.

So yeah, Im still skeptical. By the comments under the video, i dont think I am the only one.

[Avatar4321]

Are wars and rumors of war on the rise or not?

Besides, I do not know how to count for dying of heart disease before such records were kept throughout the world.

Wars and rumors of wars are not the signs. I think the verse is often misinterpreted. People dont seem to pay attention to what Christ is talking about when He does talk about wars and rumors of wars:

And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. (Matthew 24:6)

Wars and rumors of wars are going to happen. But we we are counseled not to let them bother us because the end isnt with them. They will happen but that doesnt mean it's the end. I think Christ is telling us that we are going to see wars and rumors of wars but not let us assume that means we are at the end. We dont have to be afraid of that. What's the worst that can happen because of them? We die. Then we have an Eternal reward

[california boy]

• This is a list of the wars that the United States has been involved in since the end of WWII. As you can see this country has been at constant war since it's inception and long before the sexual revolution and gay marriage. The wars have gotten bigger and more distructive, but only because the weapons have gotten bigger and more distructive. We have more mobility so it allows us to spread our constant need for war globally. This issue of war is not just in the United States. If you look at the history of war, there has been only a HANDFUL of years mankind has not been at war somewhere in the world.
  
• 1775–1783 American Revolutionary War
  
• 1777–1794 Chickamauga wars
  
• 1783–1788 Second Pennamite Warbetween settlers from Connecticut and Pennsylvania in Wyoming Valley of Pennsylvania
  
• 1785–1795 Northwest Indian War
  
• 1786–1787 Shays' Rebellion
  
• 1791–1794 Whiskey Rebellion
  
• 1798–1800 Quasi-War, an undeclared naval war with France
  

[edit]19th century

• 1804 Battle of Sitka Russian forces defeat the Tlingit in the last major armed conflict between Europeans and Alaska Natives.
  
• 1811 Tecumseh's War
  
• 1812–1815 War of 1812
  
• 1813–1814 Creek War
  
• 1817–1818 First Seminole War
  
• 1827 Winnebago War
  
• 1831 Nat Turner's Rebellion
  
• 1832 Black Hawk War
  
• 1835–1842 Second Seminole War
  
• 1835–1836 Toledo War (bloodless)
  
• 1838 Missouri Mormon War
  
• 1838–1839 Aroostook War
  
• 1839 Honey War (bloodless)
  
• 1841–1842 Dorr War
  
• 1845 Milwaukee Bridge War
  
• 1846–1848 Mexican–American War
  
• 1848–1855 Cayuse War
  
• 1854–1858 Bleeding Kansas
  
• 1855–1858 Third Seminole War
  
• 1857–1858 Utah War
  
• 1859 Pig War
  
• 1860 Pyramid Lake War
  
• 1861–1865 American Civil War
  
• 1862 Dakota War of 1862
  
• 1863–1865 Colorado War
  
• 1866–1868 Red Cloud's War
  
• 1867–1875 Comanche War
  
• 1872–1873 Modoc War
  
• 1876–1877 Black Hills War
  
• 1877 Nez Percé War
  
• 1890–1891 Ghost Dance War
  
• 1892 Johnson County War
  
• 1898 Spanish-American War
  
• 1899–1902 Philippine-American War
  
• 1899–1913 Moro Rebellion
  

[edit]20th century

• 1914–1918 World War I
  
• 1916 Mexican revolutionary Pancho Villa leads a night raid on the New Mexico border town of Columbus.
  
• 1941–1945 World War II
  

[thesometimesaint]

Darren10:

Is it me or are "wars and rumors of wars" accelerating over the last few years?

World wide the actual number, length of time spent, intensity of that war has been going down for many many years now. This old world has a long ways to go, but we are headed in the right direction.

[teddyaware]

Wars and rumors of wars are not the signs. I think the verse is often misinterpreted. People dont seem to pay attention to what Christ is talking about when He does talk about wars and rumors of wars:

Wars and rumors of wars are going to happen. But we we are counseled not to let them bother us because the end isnt with them. They will happen but that doesnt mean it's the end. I think Christ is telling us that we are going to see wars and rumors of wars but not let us assume that means we are at the end. We dont have to be afraid of that. What's the worst that can happen because of them? We die. Then we have an Eternal reward

For some clarity on the role of wars in the last days, I quote the following words, most are direct quotes from the Lord himself.

12 And it came to pass that I beheld the church of the Lamb of God, and its numbers were few, because of the wickedness and abominations of the whore who sat upon many waters; nevertheless, I beheld that the church of the Lamb, who were the saints of God, were also upon all the face of the earth; and their dominions upon the face of the earth were small, because of the wickedness of the great whore whom I saw.

13 And it came to pass that I beheld that the great mother of abominations did gather together multitudes upon the face of all the earth, among all the nations of the Gentiles, to fight against the Lamb of God.

14 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, beheld the power of the Lamb of God, that it descended upon the saints of the church of the Lamb, and upon the covenant people of the Lord, who were scattered upon all the face of the earth; and they were armed with ighteousness and with the power of God in great glory.

15 And it came to pass that I beheld that the wrath of God was poured out upon that great and abominable church, insomuch that there were wars and rumors of wars among all the nations and kindreds of the earth.

16 And as there began to be wars and rumors of wars among all the nations which belonged to the mother of abominations, the angel spake unto me, saying: Behold, the wrath of God is upon the mother of harlots; and behold, thou seest all these things— (1 Nephi 14)

[The above clearly indicates great wars among the wicked, just prior to the second coming, will occur as a direct consequence of the wicked gathering to fight against the Lord and his Church.]

6 And thus, with the sword and by bloodshed the inhabitants of the earth shall mourn; and with famine, and plague, and earthquake, and the thunder of heaven, and the fierce and vivid lightning also, shall the inhabitants of the earth be made to feel the wrath, and indignation, and chastening hand of an Almighty God, until the consumption decreed hath made a full end of all nations; D&C 88

[Wars are decreed by the Lord, amongst other judgements, to make a full end to all nations in preparation to the millennium.]

66 And it shall be called the New Jerusalem, a land of peace, a city of refuge, a place of safety for the saints of the Most High God;

67 And the glory of the Lord shall be there, and the terror of the Lord also shall be there, insomuch that the wicked will not come unto it, and it shall be called Zion.

68 And it shall come to pass among the wicked, that every man that will not take his sword against his neighbor must needs flee unto Zion for safety.

69 And there shall be gathered unto it out of every nation under heaven; and it shall be the only people that shall not be at war one with another.

70 And it shall be said among the wicked: Let us not go up to battle against Zion, for the inhabitants of Zion are terrible; wherefore we cannot stand.

71 And it shall come to pass that the righteous shall be gathered out from among all nations, and shall come to Zion, singing with songs of everlasting joy. (D&C 45)

[As a direct consequence of their rejection of the Restored Gospel, all the nations of the world will be at war, one with another. Peace and refuge from these wars of devastation will only be found Zion.]

16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon. (Revelation 16)

11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, King of Kings, and Lord of Lords.

17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;

18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.

19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh. (Revelation19)

[The second coming will be ushered in by the climactic battle of Armageddon.]

Edited April 17, 2013 by teddyaware