Prophecied Condemnation Comning To Pass?

[Stone holm]

Darren10:

Is it me or are "wars and rumors of wars" accelerating over the last few years?

World wide the actual number, length of time spent, intensity of that war has been going down for many many years now. This old world has a long ways to go, but we are headed in the right direction.

Yep, it's you. I think we will always have wars and rumours of wars, and the potential destructiveness of wars has definitely increased, but that potential has not been actualised. I think the likelihood of conventional warfare has decreased and violence has also decreased, but the potential is still there. The actual non conventional warfare has shifted from the left (communist) to the right (Islamic and Israeli)

[CV75]

• This is a list of the wars that the United States has been involved in since the end of WWII. As you can see this country has been at constant war since it's inception and long before the sexual revolution and gay marriage. The wars have gotten bigger and more distructive, but only because the weapons have gotten bigger and more distructive. We have more mobility so it allows us to spread our constant need for war globally. This issue of war is not just in the United States. If you look at the history of war, there has been only a HANDFUL of years mankind has not been at war somewhere in the world.
  

I think it disconcerting that despite the constancy of calamity of all kinds (not just war), the lessons haven’t been sufficiently learned that love (which starts with the family) is the solution to avoiding and preventing them. With improved attitudes, people are more receptive to the light of Christ and the Holy Ghost, allowing humanity to discover the solutions and apply them correctly.

I think chastity gets the focus because it is the fountainhead for the family as God designed it, and more people have inclinations toward sexual impurity than murder (for example). One form of “sexual impurity” can be taken as any distraction from family life and toward more selfish and materialistic pursuits (which need not be sexual in nature, but include the other vices and deadly sins that serve as alternates or substitutes for a godly relationship between a man and a woman—see James 4:1-5). Where from the start we are fundamentally bodies and spirits, it is more harmonious to make more bodies and spirits than more "widgets" (or otherwise contribute to the building of families where first-hand experience is not possible).

Regarding war, James 4:1- 5 may be figurative as well as literal: “From whence come wars and fightings among you? come they not hence, even of your lusts that war in your members? Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not. Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts. Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God. Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy?”

I think this might show that covetousness as well as sexual lust fights against the normal family life and pursuits that operate in tandem with the light of Christ and the Holy Ghost to benefit God's children in this world by enlightening them with the prevention of and solutions to problems. Considering how calamities of any kind get started, what occurs in a microcosm gets iterated throughout the world.

[CASteinman]

Yep, it's you. I think we will always have wars and rumours of wars, and the potential destructiveness of wars has definitely increased, but that potential has not been actualised. I think the likelihood of conventional warfare has decreased and violence has also decreased, but the potential is still there. The actual non conventional warfare has shifted from the left (communist) to the right (Islamic and Israeli)

I have thought about this a great deal and I do not know know what metric is reasonable or appropriate to measure this. I wonder if there is any way to actually understand this prophecy.

How, for example, did WWI-WWII not fit this prophecy? Yet (and I have looked) I can't find a lot of people talking about "end times" during that war. It does not seem that this was a heavy burden on the hearts of people then.

It would seem that from that time to now, War has decreased. But is that the right time span to observe? What time span was Jesus talking about? Have wars really declined in number? Perhaps not in severity, but have they declined in number? Can we really know? Do we count them all?

I don't think that this is something we get very well.

[Stone holm]

I have thought about this a great deal and I do not know know what metric is reasonable or appropriate to measure this. I wonder if there is any way to actually understand this prophecy.

How, for example, did WWI-WWII not fit this prophecy? Yet (and I have looked) I can't find a lot of people talking about "end times" during that war. It does not seem that this was a heavy burden on the hearts of people then.

It would seem that from that time to now, War has decreased. But is that the right time span to observe? What time span was Jesus talking about? Have wars really declined in number? Perhaps not in severity, but have they declined in number? Can we really know? Do we count them all?

I don't think that this is something we get very well.

While there may not have been a lot of discussion of the end of times during the massively destructive wars of the 20th Century, it was almost an obsession in America during the run up to and during the Civil War. There was some volcano that erupted down in South America that resulted in one year being referred to as the year without summer. I expect, however, the period during which we were really at risk of man causing the onset of the end of times was that period which we as modern Mormons tend to think of as idyllic namely the 50's and 60's when both Russia and the U.S. hands hovered over the nuclear button , thank goodness both countries were sufficiently secular that they understood the concept of mutually assured destruction and neither went on a quest to have seven virgins in the hereafter.

[thesometimesaint]

Yep, it's you. I think we will always have wars and rumours of wars, and the potential destructiveness of wars has definitely increased, but that potential has not been actualised. I think the likelihood of conventional warfare has decreased and violence has also decreased, but the potential is still there. The actual non conventional warfare has shifted from the left (communist) to the right (Islamic and Israeli)

Even with nukes, the actual number of nukes has gone down. But the number of countries having them obviously has gone up. The US and Russia still have the overwhelming number of them.

[Stone holm]

Even with nukes, the actual number of nukes has gone down. But the number of countries having them obviously has gone up. The US and Russia still have the overwhelming number of them.

I would guess that the increased number of countries having them has greatly increased the likelihood of someone using them like an ideologically driven state like North Korea or a country driven to the brink like Israel or any number of theocratic countries in the Middle East or I suppose an America gone rogue.

[Questing Beast]

Nukes are overrated. A bunch of them could be set off around the world and life would go on, altered and degraded to be sure, but not kaput.

The picture of the "end times" is one of abject misery on a daily basis for the masses of humanity, while the elites continue their political maneuvering and infighting that results in the "Beast" being disposed of "ignominiously in the east", and his entire empire coming unraveled. Meanwhile, the Saints (faithful to God) will "do prodigies" and only the most fearful will be overcome, i.e. join themselves to "the dark side" as it were. So "wars and rumors of wars" continue right up to the end, but there is a hiatus in general, that is to say, uncontrolled wars, and the wars we will hear of are sanctioned by the OWG (One World Gov't) of "the Beast". When he goes down, that's when Jerusalem is spared final destruction and the wicked of the evil empire will ravage themselves to death. Christ's return will complete the burning of them and the world, and then the Millennial reign will begin in earnest with rebuilding by the righteous remnant who were spared.

See? I get all that. I inculcated it for many years. And I don't see any reason why anyone should anticipate it as a literal series of events. As a parable it is useful to illustrate how bad things can get if we don't value what is most directly promoting of Joy. Anything less moves in the direction of tyranny and the rise of evil in our lives. Are we supporters of "the Beast" or are we champions of "Light"?...

Edited April 17, 2013 by Questing Beast

[CASteinman]

There was some volcano that erupted down in South America that resulted in one year being referred to as the year without summer.

I believe that was Krakatoa.

I expect, however, the period during which we were really at risk of man causing the onset of the end of times was that period which we as modern Mormons tend to think of as idyllic namely the 50's and 60's when both Russia and the U.S. hands hovered over the nuclear button , thank goodness both countries were sufficiently secular that they understood the concept of mutually assured destruction and neither went on a quest to have seven virgins in the hereafter.

Its silly to credit this with them being "secular". Secularism had very little to do with it.

In fact, it might not really be in the hands of men.

[thesometimesaint]

I would guess that the increased number of countries having them has greatly increased the likelihood of someone using them like an ideologically driven state like North Korea or a country driven to the brink like Israel or any number of theocratic countries in the Middle East or I suppose an America gone rogue.

The bigger problem is with more countries having them someone will hit the launch button by mistake. Especially given what happen between the US and Russia in 1995. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norwegian_rocket_incident

Kim might be crazy but those generals aren't suicidal. Any WMD assault on the US or our allies would be suicidal for North Korea.

Iran is a signatory to the non-proliferation treaty while Israel is not. The only country in the middle east with nukes is Israel. Iran's Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is a bit of a hot head, but it is the religious supreme counsel that determines when and if Iran goes to war.

[CV75]

Are wars and rumors of war on the rise or not?

Besides, I do not know how to count for dying of heart disease before such records were kept throughout the world.

Regarding the increase in wickedness and instability in the world: I think people are responsible for that (as judged by the Lord, which factors in many more variables that we do, so we need to take it on faith that the world is more, or is going to be more, wicked and chaotic than ever before). But I don’t think such devolution defines the actual timing of the Second Coming. It is just an indicator that time is rolling on in a fallen world and the Lord will have to come before it descends as far as it would without His direct intervention.

So I think the world is more wicked and the wars greater, etc. from the Lord’s perspective, according to His expectations (considering what He has put into it). When we see things as He does, we can correctly deduce how the world is worse off (and getting worse) and identify the proper signs and indicators.

As far as influencing the timing of His Second Coming, I think the phrase “hastening the day” relates more to a “quickening” than to actual speed, in that the Great Day of the Lord is more real, meaningful and conducive to salvation for those who prepare in righteousness. I think this is what is meant by President Kimball (“When Satan is bound in a single home—when Satan is bound in a single life—the Millennium has already begun in that home, in that life”).

[teddyaware]

I have thought about this a great deal and I do not know know what metric is reasonable or appropriate to measure this. I wonder if there is any way to actually understand this prophecy.

How, for example, did WWI-WWII not fit this prophecy? Yet (and I have looked) I can't find a lot of people talking about "end times" during that war. It does not seem that this was a heavy burden on the hearts of people then.

It would seem that from that time to now, War has decreased. But is that the right time span to observe? What time span was Jesus talking about? Have wars really declined in number? Perhaps not in severity, but have they declined in number? Can we really know? Do we count them all?

I don't think that this is something we get very well.

If one searches the prophecies pertaining to the judgments God will pour out upon the wicked prior to the Second Coming, it might be possible to understand the unfolding events of these latter-days with greater clarity. Of particular note in this regard is the prophetic warning found in Nephi's vision. I'll quote from this vision and then comment:

13 And it came to pass that I beheld that the great mother of abominations did gather together multitudes upon the face of all the earth, among all the nations of the Gentiles, to fight against the Lamb of God.

14 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, beheld the power of the Lamb of God, that it descended upon the saints of the church of the Lamb, and upon the covenant people of the Lord, who were scattered upon all the face of the earth; and they were armed with ighteousness and with the power of God in great glory.

15 And it came to pass that I beheld that the wrath of God was poured out upon that great and abominable church, insomuch that there were wars and rumors of wars among all the nations and kindreds of the earth.

16 And as there began to be wars and rumors of wars among all the nations which belonged to the mother of abominations, the angel spake unto me, saying: Behold, the wrath of God is upon the mother of harlots; and behold, thou seest all these things— (1 Nephi 14)

In the above, we are forewarned there's going to come a specific time in sacred history when "the great mother of abominations (will) gather together multitudes upon the face of all the earth, among all the nations of the Gentiles, to fight against the Lamb of God." It appears it will not be until these "multitudes" gather in overwhelming numbers to fight against the Lord and his Church that the Saviour's prophesied period of wars and rumors of wars will be fulfilled. The wars prior to this specific gathering of the wicked to fight against the Lord and his saints are only preparatory to the wars and rumors of wars so prophesied by the Lord.

Also note, in verse 14 we are told that in response to this massive persecution of the Lord and his people, Nephi "beheld the power of the Lamb of God, that it descended upon the saints of the church of the Lamb, and upon the covenant people of the Lord, who were scattered upon all the face of the earth; and they were armed with righteousness and with the power of God in great glory." It is very likely that this great outpouring of the Spirit of the Lamb of God, empowering the saints with great righteousness and glory, will provide the miraculous means whereby the Lord's people will be enabled to thwart the onslaught of the gathered enemies of Christ. Speaking of this time of persecution, D&C 45 tells us of the reaction these gathered multitudes of the great and abominable church will have when they encounter this great outpouring of spiritual endowment poured out upon the members of the Lord's Church:

"70 And it shall be said among the wicked: Let us not go up to battle against Zion, for the inhabitants of Zion are terrible; wherefore we cannot stand. (D&C 45)

Continuing on with Nephi's vision we read:

15 And it came to pass that I beheld that the wrath of God was poured out upon that great and abominable church, insomuch that there were wars and rumors of wars among all the nations and kindreds of the earth.

16 And as there began to be wars and rumors of wars among all the nations which belonged to the mother of abominations, the angel spake unto me, saying: Behold, the wrath of God is upon the mother of harlots; and behold, thou seest all these things— (1 Nephi 14)

So from the above, it appears that by the marvelous workings of the Lord, in some miraculous manner, the fixed object of the violent attention of the gathered multitudes of the wicked will be diverted away from the Saints of the Lamb, and then these anti-Christ forces will begin to focus their ungodly rage upon each other (I call these prophesied conflicts (actually judgements of God) amongst these wicked, the "King of the Hill Wars"). Meanwhile, it is likely the saints will be left largely unmolested to build Zion in preparation for the coming of the Lord in mighty Glory. Pay particular attention to the fact that the two above verses indicate this specific period of wars and rumors of wars amongst the wicked, prophesied by the Saviour, will not commence until after the initial massive attacks against the Lord's people by the combined multitudes of the great and abominable church.

Edited April 17, 2013 by teddyaware

[CV75]

13 And it came to pass that I beheld that the great mother of abominations did gather together multitudes upon the face of all the earth, among all the nations of the Gentiles, to fight against the Lamb of God.

14 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, beheld the power of the Lamb of God, that it descended upon the saints of the church of the Lamb, and upon the covenant people of the Lord, who were scattered upon all the face of the earth; and they were armed with ighteousness and with the power of God in great glory.

15 And it came to pass that I beheld that the wrath of God was poured out upon that great and abominable church, insomuch that there were wars and rumors of wars among all the nations and kindreds of the earth.

16 And as there began to be wars and rumors of wars among all the nations which belonged to the mother of abominations, the angel spake unto me, saying: Behold, the wrath of God is upon the mother of harlots; and behold, thou seest all these things— (1 Nephi 14)

Of course history repeats itself, but I take verses 13-16 to pertain to the Apostasy (fighting against the Lamb), the Restoration (the power of God descending upon the saints), and the resulting upheaval (wars, rumors of wars, wrath upon the mother of harlots). This continues to go on now and worsen as the two sides gather strength.

I think D&C 45:70 has yet to take place, but the Church is certainly gaining more and more respect. And then, as you point out the wicked will destroy the wicked right up to the last day (Mormon 4:5, “But, behold, the judgments of God will overtake the wicked; and it is by the wicked that the wicked are punished; for it is the wicked that stir up the hearts of the children of men unto bloodshed.”).

Edited April 17, 2013 by CV75

[pmccombs1]

Regardless of your political support or lack thereof for our military actions around the world, I ask if all these "wars and rumors of wars" are a result of the "disintigration of the family" as per The Proclamation? Are these part of the calamaties modern-day prophets have recently warned the world will come as they the world violates chastity and neglect the family. By neglect I most definitely include violating the nature of the family.

I argue that you have reversed cause and effect. The popular view is that the destruction of the family and the attack on the family are current issues that arise from current events and current culture. Our tendency (the Middle-class tendency, as Carroll Quigley points out) is to reduce most problems to the present sexual immorality, in this case even making a connection between sexual deviance and the state of war or the threat of war. In your post, I hear echoes of Pat Robertson who blamed terrorist attacks, in part, on the gays.

The truth is that the family is already dissolved. It has been for a long time. Families used to be concrete things, now (even in many good, LDS homes) they assemble in strained, programmed periods of family togetherness, if at all.

Family boundaries and relationships have always, always been coterminous with economic boundaries and relationships. When the economy was in the home, so was the family. When the economy required human inter-dependency, that's what the family provided. When the economy became a boundless system of negative liberty, when it went outside of the home and replaced dependencies with symbols and abstract values, the family followed suit. The nature of the family can't be divorced from oikonomia. Return economy to the home, and we fix families. Then morality can fall into its proper place.

Hugh Nibley once made the audacious claim that the harlot would get into heaven before the businessman. I daresay the same applies to the homosexual and the businessman. If you want to find the root of strife--the source of wars and rumors of wars (and the destroyer of families)--follow the money!

Edited April 17, 2013 by pmccombs1

[teddyaware]

Of course history repeats itself, but I take verses 13-16 to pertain to the Apostasy (fighting against the Lamb), the Restoration (the power of God descending upon the saints), and the resulting upheaval (wars, rumors of wars, wrath upon the mother of harlots). This continues to go on now and worsen as the two sides gather strength.

I think D&C 45:70 has yet to take place, but the Church is certainly gaining more and more respect. And then, as you point out the wicked will destroy the wicked right up to the last day (Mormon 4:5, “But, behold, the judgments of God will overtake the wicked; and it is by the wicked that the wicked are punished; for it is the wicked that stir up the hearts of the children of men unto bloodshed.”).

There is no doubt but that the great, prophesied struggle is already in progress, ongoing since the earliest days of the Restoration. But the wars that will bring a full end to all nations, as well as the ultimate overthrow of the great and abominable church, are yet to be. These horrific wars that will bring ultimate ruination to the whore of all the earth will commence in earnest after the the forces of the great and abominable church unite in an attempt to destroy the Restored Church of Christ, once and for all.

I believe Ezra Taft Benson spoke of this dramatic moment in prophetic history in his great October 1988 General Conference address. Speaking of the time when the polarization between the forces of Christ and the anti-Christ causes a great division, the time when the people of the world will no longer have the luxury of being able to stradle the fence, even that day when the children of men must finally decide on whose side they will align themselves, either on the Lord's side or on Lucifer's, he says:

I testify that as the forces of evil increase under Lucifer’s leadership and as the forces of good increase under the leadership of Jesus Christ, there will be growing battles between the two until the final confrontation. As the issues become clearer and more obvious, all mankind will eventually be required to align themselves either for the kingdom of God or for the kingdom of the devil. As these conflicts rage, either secretly or openly, the righteous will be tested. God’s wrath will soon shake the nations of the earth and will be poured out on the wicked without measure. But God will provide strength for the righteous and the means of escape; and eventually and finally truth will triumph. (Ezra Taft Benson, October 1988)

I believe it will be at the time these sides are chosen that the forces of the whore of all the earth will attempt to destroy the Lord's Church (which by that time will have become a massive thorn in the side of the combined forces of Babylon) that this fight between the forces of good and evil will commence in deadly earnest. Then, after the power of the Lord thwarts their evil designs to destroy the people aligned with him, the wicked will begin the deadly wars amongst themselves that were prophesied by the Savior. The ultimate outcome of these final wars, -- wars that will usher in the millennial reign of Christ -- is clearly and cogently set forth by Nephi:

3 And that great pit, which hath been digged for them by that great and abominable church, which was founded by the devil and his children, that he might lead away the souls of men down to hell—yea, that great pit which hath been digged for the destruction of men shall be filled by those who digged it, unto their utter destruction, saith the Lamb of God; not the destruction of the soul, save it be the casting of it into that hell which hath no end.

4 For behold, this is according to the captivity of the devil, and also according to the justice of God, upon all those who will work wickedness and abomination before him. (1 Nephi 14)

Edited April 17, 2013 by teddyaware

[thesometimesaint]

"History doesn't repeat itself, but it does rhyme".

Mark Twain

[cinepro]

Are these part of the calamaties modern-day prophets have recently warned the world will come as they the world violates chastity and neglect the family. By neglect I most definitely include violating the nature of the family.

I am in the "no" camp, meaning that by any objective measure, I believe we are living in the best period of human history. Advances in medicine and other positive areas (including diplomacy, justice and democracy) far, far outweigh any possible negatives from modern weapons or immorality.

And I am not so sure there was ever a universal "golden era" for nuclear families and values. I suspect a lot of what we look at as "the way things used to be" are a fictional version of the white, American middle class crystallized by old TV shows and a lot of selective reporting.

And for heaven's sake, listen to Steve Pinker's TED Talk!

http://www.ted.com/t...f_violence.html

Edited April 17, 2013 by cinepro

[Stone holm]

I argue that you have reversed cause and effect. The popular view is that the destruction of the family and the attack on the family are current issues that arise from current events and current culture. Our tendency (the Middle-class tendency, as Carroll Quigley points out) is to reduce most problems to the present sexual immorality, in this case even making a connection between sexual deviance and the state of war or the threat of war. In your post, I hear echoes of Pat Robertson who blamed terrorist attacks, in part, on the gays.

The truth is that the family is already dissolved. It has been for a long time. Families used to be concrete things, now (even in many good, LDS homes) they assemble in strained, programmed periods of family togetherness, if at all.

Family boundaries and relationships have always, always been coterminous with economic boundaries and relationships. When the economy was in the home, so was the family. When the economy required human inter-dependency, that's what the family provided. When the economy became a boundless system of negative liberty, when it went outside of the home and replaced dependencies with symbols and abstract values, the family followed suit. The nature of the family can't be divorced from oikonomia. Return economy to the home, and we fix families. Then morality can fall into its proper place.

Hugh Nibley once made the audacious claim that the harlot would get into heaven before the businessman. I daresay the same applies to the homosexual and the businessman. If you want to find the root of strife--the source of wars and rumors of wars (and the destroyer of families)--follow the money!

I think you hit this one out of the park. I have been arguing this for years.

[Bikeemikey]

Are wars and rumors of war on the rise or not?

Besides, I do not know how to count for dying of heart disease before such records were kept throughout the world.

On the rise compared to what? But I see no harm in conceding that rumors of war may be on the rise, only because real wars are not happening anywhere near the level and scope that they have over the last few thousand years. So to your questions, Wars are on the decline in both frequency and severity, though there may be a possible argument that rumors of wars are on the rise... though I would say had international news been broadcasting between 1000BC and 1000AD they would likely have been reporting both more actual war and rumor of war.

As for people dying of heart disease... Yes it is a problem, it is partially about personal health and diet, it is also about having large portions of the population living much much longer than they ever have before they are not being killed in war.

Using heart disease levels as a sign of global decline is kind of like saying, "people aren't being killed in mass warfare at a young enough age so we are seeing an epidemic of old age health complications, oh by the way this is evidence that the world is going to hell in a handbasket".

[Stone holm]

On the rise compared to what? But I see no harm in conceding that rumors of war may be on the rise, only because real wars are not happening anywhere near the level and scope that they have over the last few thousand years. So to your questions, Wars are on the decline in both frequency and severity, though there may be a possible argument that rumors of wars are on the rise... though I would say had international news been broadcasting between 1000BC and 1000AD they would likely have been reporting both more actual war and rumor of war.

As for people dying of heart disease... Yes it is a problem, it is partially about personal health and diet, it is also about having large portions of the population living much much longer than they ever have before they are not being killed in war.

Using heart disease levels as a sign of global decline is kind of like saying, "people aren't being killed in mass warfare at a young enough age so we are seeing an epidemic of old age health complications, oh by the way this is evidence that the world is going to hell in a handbasket".

I find the heart disease thing overstated I remember when you were lucky if you made it through your sixties without keeling over dead from a heart attack and they had no idea what a by pass was, and if you had cancer well you were basically dead.

[Tacenda]

I argue that you have reversed cause and effect. The popular view is that the destruction of the family and the attack on the family are current issues that arise from current events and current culture. Our tendency (the Middle-class tendency, as Carroll Quigley points out) is to reduce most problems to the present sexual immorality, in this case even making a connection between sexual deviance and the state of war or the threat of war. In your post, I hear echoes of Pat Robertson who blamed terrorist attacks, in part, on the gays.

The truth is that the family is already dissolved. It has been for a long time. Families used to be concrete things, now (even in many good, LDS homes) they assemble in strained, programmed periods of family togetherness, if at all.

Family boundaries and relationships have always, always been coterminous with economic boundaries and relationships. When the economy was in the home, so was the family. When the economy required human inter-dependency, that's what the family provided. When the economy became a boundless system of negative liberty, when it went outside of the home and replaced dependencies with symbols and abstract values, the family followed suit. The nature of the family can't be divorced from oikonomia. Return economy to the home, and we fix families. Then morality can fall into its proper place.

Hugh Nibley once made the audacious claim that the harlot would get into heaven before the businessman. I daresay the same applies to the homosexual and the businessman. If you want to find the root of strife--the source of wars and rumors of wars (and the destroyer of families)--follow the money!

Wish I was able to give a point for this! I'm on Limited for eternity I guess.

[Bikeemikey]

Im still skeptical. There are more people now than ever and it was more violent in the past? We have greater weapons to do damage and it's more violent then? We just lived through the most violent century in the history of mankind and this next century isn't looking to be much different. Quite the opposite.

The problem we face is we are a culture that is so immersed in violence that we don't even recognize it. I know that sounds hard to comprehend, I didnt realize it myself until I cut out violent entertainment from my life for a week. It truly is everywhere.

So yeah, Im still skeptical. By the comments under the video, i dont think I am the only one.

Your skepticism is noted.

All you need to do now is provide a CFR for last century being the most violent in human history and you skepticism actually becomes legitimized.

Do we have more potential for wide sweeping catastrophic violence, even humanity ending apocalyptic violence now than we have ever had... absolutely.

Most cultures pre-modern times had people growing up with swords, bows and slings knowing that any day they may have to use it to kill someone. I am not sure that a culture saturated in TV and game violence is more saturated than a culture that grew up actually knowing that the need to kill may be a real possibility. There are still areas of the world were the societal norm is more the latter than the former, I don't think any of them would consider theatrical violence as anything of note when real violence actually was occurring daily. However, your comment may not have been intended to be comparative.

[Bikeemikey]

I am in the "no" camp, meaning that by any objective measure, I believe we are living in the best period of human history. Advances in medicine and other positive areas (including diplomacy, justice and democracy) far, far outweigh any possible negatives from modern weapons or immorality.

And I am not so sure there was ever a universal "golden era" for nuclear families and values. I suspect a lot of what we look at as "the way things used to be" are a fictional version of the white, American middle class crystallized by old TV shows and a lot of selective reporting.

And for heaven's sake, listen to Steve Pinker's TED Talk!

http://www.ted.com/t...f_violence.html

yeah posted that already... not sure anyone bothered. Oh, shocking :-(

[Bikeemikey]

Wish I was able to give a point for this! I'm on Limited for eternity I guess.

Gave one for you.

[Stone holm]

Wish I was able to give a point for this! I'm on Limited for eternity I guess.

I gave one also.

[CV75]

There is no doubt but that the great, prophesied struggle is already in progress, ongoing since the earliest days of the Restoration. But the wars that will bring a full end to all nations, as well as the ultimate overthrow of the great and abominable church, are yet to be. These horrific wars that will bring ultimate ruination to the whore of all the earth will commence in earnest after the the forces of the great and abominable church unite in an attempt to destroy the Restored Church of Christ, once and for all.

I believe Ezra Taft Benson spoke of this dramatic moment in prophetic history in his great October 1988 General Conference address. Speaking of the time when the polarization between the forces of Christ and the anti-Christ causes a great division, the time when the people of the world will no longer have the luxury of being able to stradle the fence, even that day when the children of men must finally decide on whose side they will align themselves, either on the Lord's side or on Lucifer's, he says:

I testify that as the forces of evil increase under Lucifer’s leadership and as the forces of good increase under the leadership of Jesus Christ, there will be growing battles between the two until the final confrontation. As the issues become clearer and more obvious, all mankind will eventually be required to align themselves either for the kingdom of God or for the kingdom of the devil. As these conflicts rage, either secretly or openly, the righteous will be tested. God’s wrath will soon shake the nations of the earth and will be poured out on the wicked without measure. But God will provide strength for the righteous and the means of escape; and eventually and finally truth will triumph. (Ezra Taft Benson, October 1988)

I believe it will be at the time these sides are chosen that the forces of the whore of all the earth will attempt to destroy the Lord's Church (which by that time will have become a massive thorn in the side of the combined forces of Babylon) that this fight between the forces of good and evil will commence in deadly earnest. Then, after the power of the Lord thwarts their evil designs to destroy the people aligned with him, the wicked will begin the deadly wars amongst themselves that were prophesied by the Savior. The ultimate outcome of these final wars, -- wars that will usher in the millennial reign of Christ -- is clearly and cogently set forth by Nephi:

3 And that great pit, which hath been digged for them by that great and abominable church, which was founded by the devil and his children, that he might lead away the souls of men down to hell—yea, that great pit which hath been digged for the destruction of men shall be filled by those who digged it, unto their utter destruction, saith the Lamb of God; not the destruction of the soul, save it be the casting of it into that hell which hath no end.

4 For behold, this is according to the captivity of the devil, and also according to the justice of God, upon all those who will work wickedness and abomination before him. (1 Nephi 14)

That is what I mean when i say that things will "...worsen as the two sides gather strength."