Abortion - Why Doesn'T The Church Make A Stronger Stance On It?

[WWTMJD]

The church is most certainly against abortion. I think the only thing we have that differs from the Catholic church is whether or not we can continue to have babies after various c-sections, for the woman. We don't necessarily tie the tubes unless it could cause harm to the woman...but I digress... I know that church punishment could be given to someone who commits an abortion; it would be very difficult to repent from this, as the Book of Mormon suggests.

[Yirgacheffe]

The church is most certainly against abortion. I think the only thing we have that differs from the Catholic church is whether or not we can continue to have babies after various c-sections, for the woman.

I don't understand what you're saying here?

[thesometimesaint]

Anything? Can God lie and remain God? Has there ever been anything that was declared a sin by God and later changed to not be a sin?

I am not talking about something like polygamy that is sinful if not commanded by God. I am talking about things such as robbery, murder, rape, adultery, bestiality, homosexual acts, etc.

Glenn

Yes.

[EllenMaksoud]

The church makes webpages / news-releases / gets involved in court cases / tells people how to vote etc. etc. when it comes to marriage issues - but it seems like there is not as much involvement in the pro-life movement, and I was just wondering why not? Part of my family is Catholic, and they are always posting about pro-life stuff, bills that are in the works, or pro-life centers helping pregnant moms, or public statements where their leaders are advocating life - but it doesn't seem to be as much in the lime-light within the LDS church. Sure, the LDS church has family planning resources, but you have to search for them, and I don't recall too many statements in the media, or from the pulpit, about the issue. Sure there is some - but it is very sparse compared to what is said on other controversial topics.

Are LDS members not as pro-life as the Catholics?

Is marriage equality more important than protecting the lives of innocent children?

Are there any official statements about when life begins?

Should we be pushing the LDS church to get more into the pro-life battle than it currently is?

Just curious what everyone's thoughts are on this. Thanks!

Free Agency?

And, why should men, who cannot get preggers, make these decisions?

Edited April 2, 2013 by EllenMaksoud

[JAHS]

Probably the best talk ever given by Elder Nelson that explains the position of the Church on abortion:

http://www.lds.org/general-conference/1985/04/reverence-for-life?lang=eng

[cinepro]

The church is most certainly against abortion. I think the only thing we have that differs from the Catholic church is whether or not we can continue to have babies after various c-sections, for the woman. We don't necessarily tie the tubes unless it could cause harm to the woman...but I digress... I know that church punishment could be given to someone who commits an abortion; it would be very difficult to repent from this, as the Book of Mormon suggests.

What are you talking about? I'm pretty sure the official LDS stance on birth control is very different from the official Catholic stance...

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

1. We're every bit as pro-life as the Catholics. However we believe Agency is the most important element in our lives.

2. See Proclamation on the Family.

3. No.

4. No. We allow our members to make up their own minds

If not for incest or rape, it is consider a grievous sin. Watched a lady with planned parenthood last night who suggested that babies who survive an abortion...if the mother chooses, should be allowed to die. This is why Christ will burn us at his coming.

[Stone holm]

If not for incest or rape, it is consider a grievous sin. Watched a lady with planned parenthood last night who suggested that babies who survive an abortion...if the mother chooses, should be allowed to die. This is why Christ will burn us at his coming.

Don't we love taking stances because of extreme situations. Do we conclude from the fact that some idiot suggested that we let an infant who has been born die, that it would be a good idea to have the government decide when abortions can legally occur?

[bluebell]

Don't we love taking stances because of extreme situations. Do we conclude from the fact that some idiot suggested that we let an infant who has been born die, that it would be a good idea to have the government decide when abortions can legally occur?

Given that many states have laws which allow late term abortions (a procedure which includes actively killing-often by dismemberment-a child which could survive outside of the womb if born), it's seems pretty obvious that there aren't that many people who should be able to make laws governing abortion, government or civilian alike.

[go_utes01]

Don't we love taking stances because of extreme situations. Do we conclude from the fact that some idiot suggested that we let an infant who has been born die, that it would be a good idea to have the government decide when abortions can legally occur?

Do you not believe that we, as a society, through our government, should be able to conclude that the killing of an innocent human life should be outlawed? At different times some people believed that persons of African descent or Jewish descent, etc. were not fully human and did not deserve the same protection under the law. Do you believe that society was wrong to "force its morality" on those people as well?

Edited April 2, 2013 by go_utes01

[thesometimesaint]

If not for incest or rape, it is consider a grievous sin. Watched a lady with planned parenthood last night who suggested that babies who survive an abortion...if the mother chooses, should be allowed to die. This is why Christ will burn us at his coming.

Add in life and health of the mother, survivability of the fetus after birth. I fully support the Church's position on abortion. Which itself recognizes rare conditions where an abortion is permissible for its members. The overwhelming majority of abortions in this country are in the first trimester. Survivability isn't even an issue in those cases.

[thesometimesaint]

Do you not believe that we, as a society, through our government, should be able to conclude that the killing of an innocent human life should be outlawed? At different times some people believed that persons of African descent or Jewish descent, etc. were not fully human and did not deserve the same protection under the law. Do you believe that society was wrong to "force its morality" on those people as well?

We have already decided through our government that abortion is legal in this country.

[go_utes01]

We have already decided through our government that abortion is legal in this country.

We can also decide through our government/courts that we were incorrect (just like we decided that people owning other people as chattel was incorrect) and that the killing of innocent babies should not be legal. The fact that "we have already decided" that killing innocent babies is legal is chilling - at least to me.

[thesometimesaint]

We already tried that. The rich women got medically supervised abortions and the poor ones got coat hangers. Do you really want a return to the days of before Roe v Wade? Also add in that the LDS allow for some abortions. Or are all those LDS women also murders and need to be executed for premeditated murder?

[go_utes01]

We already tried that. The rich women got medically supervised abortions and the poor ones got coat hangers. Do you really want a return to the days of before Roe v Wade? Also add in that the LDS allow for some abortions. Or are all those LDS women also murders and need to be executed for premeditated murder?

Yes. I really want to live in a society that does not believe that the choice to kill an innocent baby is a choice that should be protected by law. The fact that some people break laws is not a good excuse for abolishing the law. Rich people are more likely to get away with murder as well. Nobody said anything about execution for premeditated murder (being consistent, I am against capital punishment as well), but I do believe that saving innocent lives is important and deterrence through some sort of punishment would be helpful to that end (e.g. punishment for the doctors that perform such abortions along with those that seek them out/facilitate them). I think there could be a sensible law to deal with elective abortions - or some sort of self-defense defense in instances where the life of the mother is in jeopardy. Since Roe was decided more than 50 million babies have been aborted in the United States. More than 3,000 babies are killed each day. Abortion kills more babies worldwide in two months, than the Nazis were able to kill in 12 years of the holocaust. To me, this is the greatest travesty and moral failing of our society. I look at my children and cannot even imagine our society is ok with this. Sickening.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

Don't we love taking stances because of extreme situations. Do we conclude from the fact that some idiot suggested that we let an infant who has been born die, that it would be a good idea to have the government decide when abortions can legally occur?

They once did, but what needs to happen is to change the heart of our people. I forget the country who suffered under a dictator, after they shot he and his wife to death the first two laws were...no more capital punishment and to legalize abortion. This was about 20 or 30 years ago, maybe someone with remember the country I speak of...abortion is the taking of a life, even when necessary to save the mother. The Church allows for three reasons, some do not believe any reason is good enough. But, I know women who have come unto Christ and unable to forgive getting an abortion for just not wanting a baby at the time. My wife had many problems with our youngest, but she would have died before having an abortion...he words not mine. My oldest child is my wife's bio-Child, it was a teenage pregnancy, she chose life and provided me the opportunity to adopt her...she was not born of my body, but born of my heart and the providing of 4 Grandchildren and the meaning of joy. Sometimes people see me with the 4 or her children and tell me they can see the likeness to me, I tell them of "course, we have the same DNA". Adopting her was the greatest thing I have ever done and why I will go to heaven. Her last child was named after me, (his middle name is my first) despite me telling her, he needs his own name. I was also adopted, as a result...here is how it goes:

Albert H Lee adopted me making me

William E Lee (formally Nation)

Sonya Delynn Lee (now Bush)

Macy Spring Bush (very gifted and took 2nd pplace in the State for a video she made)

Addie Kate Bush (has a laugh and kindness that could save the world)

Remy Elizabeth Bush (who loves her Nanny and Pa Pa "this much" as she spreads her arms to show us)

Jamison William Bush (who peed on me this morning while changing his diaper)

All born under the covenant.

Thus joy and generations to come...all because of choosing life.

I esteem the name given me "Lee" and because it was a gift of love, I will never do anything to bring it shame. Growing up in his home and then mine the term "step-sister or step brother" were never allowed to be spoken.

Simply put choosing life is never a bad idea. I have three other Grandchildren making 7...so 10% of the goal of 70.

Edited April 3, 2013 by Bill “Papa” Lee

[Tacenda]

They once did, but what needs to happen is to change the heart of our people. I forget the country who suffered under a dictator, after they shot he and his wife to death the first two laws were...no more capital punishment and to legalize abortion. This was about 20 or 30 years ago, maybe someone with remember the country I speak of...abortion is the taking of a life, even when necessary to save the mother. The Church allows for three reasons, some do not believe any reason is good enough. But, I know women who have come unto Christ and unable to forgive getting an abortion for just not wanting a baby at the time. My wife had many problems with our youngest, but she would have died before having an abortion...he words not mine. My oldest child is my wife's bio-Child, it was a teenage pregnancy, she chose life and provided me the opportunity to adopt her...she was not born of my body, but born of my heart and the providing of 4 Grandchildren and the meaning of joy. Sometimes people see me with the 4 or her children and tell me they can see the likeness to me, I tell them of "course, we have the same DNA". Adopting her was the greatest thing I have ever done and why I will go to heaven. Her last child was named after me, (his middle name is my first) despite me telling her, he needs his own name. I was also adopted, as a result...here is how it goes:

Albert H Lee adopted me making me

William E Lee (formally Nation)

Sonya Delynn Lee (now Bush)

Macy Spring Bush

Addie Kate Bush

Remy Elizabeth Bush

Jamison William Bush

Thus joy and generations to come...all because of choosing life.

I esteem the name given me "Lee" and because it was a gift of love, I will never do anything to bring it shame. Growing up in his home and then mine the term "step-sister or step brother" were never allowed to be spoken.

Simply put choosing life is never a bad idea. I have three other Grandchildren making 7...so 10% of the goal of 70.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicolae_Ceau%C5%9Fescu Was it these two? BTW, I love your indian name, what tribe are you from? Of course I'm jumping to this conclusion, sorry for that. I have Cherokee indian in my make up but don't look it. I've always been so proud to share that with people.

[Stone holm]

Add in life and health of the mother, survivability of the fetus after birth. I fully support the Church's position on abortion. Which itself recognizes rare conditions where an abortion is permissible for its members. The overwhelming majority of abortions in this country are in the first trimester. Survivability isn't even an issue in those cases.

Actually the Church policy has more exceptions than that including severe genetic disorders. I don't have a major problem with the approach that was taken in Roe v Wade, which is the Constitutional standard which does allow the State governments to intervene regarding late term abortions. In fact the test as to when the State government can intercede is basically a viability standard, although they managed to avoid basing it on any rights of the fetus.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

Add in life and health of the mother, survivability of the fetus after birth.

There have been so many who were not expected to live...and lived they did. My granddaughter Remy was born with cancer, had to have surgery at 6 months. She is already survived cancer...now 4 years old and cancer free. Being born with cancer is so rare there is not even a % given it.

[Stone holm]

They once did, but what needs to happen is to change the heart of our people. I forget the country who suffered under a dictator, after they shot he and his wife to death the first two laws were...no more capital punishment and to legalize abortion. This was about 20 or 30 years ago, maybe someone with remember the country I speak of...abortion is the taking of a life, even when necessary to save the mother. The Church allows for three reasons, some do not believe any reason is good enough. But, I know women who have come unto Christ and unable to forgive getting an abortion for just not wanting a baby at the time. My wife had many problems with our youngest, but she would have died before having an abortion...he words not mine. My oldest child is my wife's bio-Child, it was a teenage pregnancy, she chose life and provided me the opportunity to adopt her...she was not born of my body, but born of my heart and the providing of 4 Grandchildren and the meaning of joy. Sometimes people see me with the 4 or her children and tell me they can see the likeness to me, I tell them of "course, we have the same DNA". Adopting her was the greatest thing I have ever done and why I will go to heaven. Her last child was named after me, (his middle name is my first) despite me telling her, he needs his own name. I was also adopted, as a result...here is how it goes:

Albert H Lee adopted me making me

William E Lee (formally Nation)

Sonya Delynn Lee (now Bush)

Macy Spring Bush (very gifted and took 2nd pplace in the State for a video she made)

Addie Kate Bush (has a laugh and kindness that could save the world)

Remy Elizabeth Bush (who loves her Nanny and Pa Pa "this much" as she spreads her arms to show us)

Jamison William Bush (who peed on me this morning while changing his diaper)

All born under the covenant.

Thus joy and generations to come...all because of choosing life.

I esteem the name given me "Lee" and because it was a gift of love, I will never do anything to bring it shame. Growing up in his home and then mine the term "step-sister or step brother" were never allowed to be spoken.

Simply put choosing life is never a bad idea. I have three other Grandchildren making 7...so 10% of the goal of 70.

Yeah ... I was thinking of a response but that might trigger Godwin's Law so I will keep it to myself. I believe that a woman should have the right to choose because she is the one taking the risk. My first wife chose to not risk having them induce labor when her water broke at the edge of viability she did so because she did not want to harm our unborn child. The stillborn child now rests in her arms until the resurrection in a grave out in Indiana. It was her choice, but she would have defended the right of any other woman to make a different choice.

[bluebell]

Yeah ... I was thinking of a response but that might trigger Godwin's Law so I will keep it to myself. I believe that a woman should have the right to choose because she is the one taking the risk

If she chose the risk, why should her choice outweigh another's life?

And if she chose the risk, why isn't THAT choice good enough? Why does she get to choose the risk and then also choose the consequences of that choice?

Edited April 3, 2013 by bluebell

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicolae_Ceau%C5%9Fescu Was it these two? BTW, I love your indian name, what tribe are you from? Of course I'm jumping to this conclusion, sorry for that. I have Cherokee indian in my make up but don't look it. I've always been so proud to share that with people.

Same with my adopted family, my wife's great grandmother was full Cherokee. Here name after marriage was and this is no joke...

Mary-Lou Louisa Lou Bettercrane Poor Kuykendall

We found a picture while researching her family history.

My wife and her family have olive skin from ancestry as did my adopted family...as for me I am the whiter than white, I am Irish and Scottish.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

Yeah ... I was thinking of a response but that might trigger Godwin's Law so I will keep it to myself.

I cannot thing of a single thing I wrote that could cause you to think of a response violating "Goodwin's Law" which primarily means someone is suggesting someone else of being a horrible human...a word I don't want to type. Every pregnancy is a risk to the woman. "Children are the heritage to The Lord. Why is differing opinions such a horrible thing...Jefferson Davis, "I know of nothing so horrible that is cannot be discussed among good men" (too paraphrase). If you would like to infer what you think I am, send me a PM, I can take it.

[thesometimesaint]

There have been so many who were not expected to live...and lived they did. My granddaughter Remy was born with cancer, had to have surgery at 6 months. She is already survived cancer...now 4 years old and cancer free. Being born with cancer is so rare there is not even a % given it.

I've no problem with the advancements of modern medicine. More power to your granddaughter, and her doctors. That being said the Church does recognize that certain fetal abnormalities are incompatible with life. thus allows for abortion, but doesn't mandate it.

[go_utes01]

I've no problem with the advancements of modern medicine. More power to your granddaughter, and her doctors. That being said the Church does recognize that certain fetal abnormalities are incompatible with life. thus allows for abortion, but doesn't mandate it.

They are defective, kill 'em. Scary. If what you are saying is true of the LDS position on abortion, I fundamentally disagree with it. Maybe I should wear pants to church in protest.