An Interesting Puzzle

[EllenMaksoud]

So, thousands of years, the Jews felt that Pork was impure; in fact it was non Kosher. Leviticus 11:7-8 prohibit it. Of course the jews still forbid it. I was doing a bit of research and found that the Muslims got their prohibition of it from the Jews. It's a bit odd because now days Muslims and Jews seem to be locked in a duel to the death. Yet, in their own cultural ethic they say that they believe in the old book (Meaning loosely what we call the old testament.)

I did not get that information from scholarship but from what the Imam's told me. They were really reticent to talk much about "The Book"; that's what they call it, you know. They call Christians, "The People of the Book". They say that after Isa PBUH, the people of "The Book" became apostate and left the true path. Does this story sound familiar to you? So, the Muslims follow some of the laws of the Jews who they love to fight with. They call Pork, Haraam! So, for a very long time, history pointed to the restoration of the gospel.

So, here pork has been non-kosher, and haraam for thousands of years, and then in Acts 10:13 suddenly it's OK to eat it. Personally, I felt that the old church started going Apostate during the book of Acts.

So, I was raised on fried pork chops, fried potatoes, and okra. In the 50's pork was cheap; in fact we raised a lot of our own. Most of the food we ate came from our farm, except flower, and most spices.

So, in D&C 89:12-13 it was a bit of a surprise to me that a man back in 1930 would know that too much meat was unhealthy.

So, in the news now, I read that those who eat pork on a regular basis, will die 44% sooner. I'm still working on this. I am just trying to figure out what was going on in Acts when forbidden meats were allowed?

[Storm Rider]

It is funny to find so many cultural similarities between the Muslim and Jewish people. There are many, far more than they either side is willing to admit. I have always appreciated Matt 15:10-20. The Word of Wisdom offers counsel to us in how to eat and in obeying we are given specific blessings. Humanity is not defiled by what we eat, but what comes out of our mouths. At times the Lord's people have lived a specific, dietary code for various reasons. However, I am loathe to call any creature created by God evil or unclean. We may use such language and prophets of old have used such language, but their intent is not to say the creature is evil or bad, but that they are not to be eaten. I am also reluctant to try and provide reasons why our Heavenly Father would require one thing or another; it is best just to say that he asked it of his people or his followers. On a side note, few things are as good as the fried pork chops and okra with corn bread my grandmother used to make. Nowadays I eat chicken or lamb when I eat meat; they are good, but grandma's fried chops are still remembered with envy that I cannot cook like she could and fondness for the good times they help me remember.

[EllenMaksoud]

It is funny to find so many cultural similarities between the Muslim and Jewish people. There are many, far more than they either side is willing to admit. I have always appreciated Matt 15:10-20. The Word of Wisdom offers counsel to us in how to eat and in obeying we are given specific blessings. Humanity is not defiled by what we eat, but what comes out of our mouths. At times the Lord's people have lived a specific, dietary code for various reasons. However, I am loathe to call any creature created by God evil or unclean. We may use such language and prophets of old have used such language, but their intent is not to say the creature is evil or bad, but that they are not to be eaten. I am also reluctant to try and provide reasons why our Heavenly Father would require one thing or another; it is best just to say that he asked it of his people or his followers. On a side note, few things are as good as the fried pork chops and okra with corn bread my grandmother used to make. Nowadays I eat chicken or lamb when I eat meat; they are good, but grandma's fried chops are still remembered with envy that I cannot cook like she could and fondness for the good times they help me remember.

I don't actually see any of these dietary restrictions as rules, which violated will send you to condemnation and hell, but rather sound advice for healthful living from a loving Father. If you are LDS, then you may also see the big similarites between Islam and the LDS. I think that the two are mutually complementary.

[Storm Rider]

I don't actually see any of these dietary restrictions as rules, which violated will send you to condemnation and hell, but rather sound advice for healthful living from a loving Father. If you are LDS, then you may also see the big similarites between Islam and the LDS. I think that the two are mutually complementary.

I do see them as highly complementary. It is a pleasure to live among Muslims; there is much peace and joy that can be found living side by side. On those occasions when more than a passing questions about religion comes up, it is wonderful to see how well we relate one with another.

[changed]

... I am loathe to call any creature created by God evil or unclean. ...

although you have to admit, pigs do tend to roll around in the mud. I always thought the symbolism was from the atonement, that what was unclean, is now clean through the atonement?

Esau and Jacob - Ishmael, I think that is where the Arabs split from the Jews. - link

[bcuzbcuz]

I do see them as highly complementary. It is a pleasure to live among Muslims; there is much peace and joy that can be found living side by side. On those occasions when more than a passing questions about religion comes up, it is wonderful to see how well we relate one with another.

I find the devotion and praise expressed in this video to be exemplary, regardless of the definition as to whom the devotion is dedicated.You can find it at YouTube under

" Wael Gassar" Fi Hadret El Mahboub 2010 /

كليب في حضرة المحبوب

[Storm Rider]

There is a wondrous holiness expressed toward God the Father by Muslims. During daily prayers I sense a beautiful brotherhood when Muslim men line up to pray. I have had occasion to be at mosque during Dhuhr, Asr, and Maghrib prayers and I have felt the Spirit present with them. Though I realize the significant loss of the Savior in their understanding, I also acknowledge that they can teach us a great deal about reverencing the Father and in many other areas of religious life. This is a people to be cherished, loved, and respected for their own beliefs and culture.

[bcuzbcuz]

There is a wondrous holiness expressed toward God the Father by Muslims. During daily prayers I sense a beautiful brotherhood when Muslim men line up to pray. I have had occasion to be at mosque during Dhuhr, Asr, and Maghrib prayers and I have felt the Spirit present with them. Though I realize the significant loss of the Savior in their understanding, I also acknowledge that they can teach us a great deal about reverencing the Father and in many other areas of religious life. This is a people to be cherished, loved, and respected for their own beliefs and culture.

Totally agree.

[Calm]

So, in the news now, I read that those who eat pork on a regular basis, will die 44% sooner.

A link to this please?

I was told a few decades ago that eating pork was unhealthy because it is very close to our own muscle, etc. in terms of makeup and the digestive acids etc. that are used to process it will then go on to 'digest' our own tissues, causing damage.

I didn't buy that idea then, don't buy it now but I have never been able to tolerate pork all that well (not chicken either for some reason) and am interested in any information that might suggest why.

[Glenn101]

I did not get that information from scholarship but from what the Imam's told me. They were really reticent to talk much about "The Book"; that's what they call it, you know. They call Christians, "The People of the Book". They say that after Isa PBUH, the people of "The Book" became apostate and left the true path. Does this story sound familiar to you? So, the Muslims follow some of the laws of the Jews who they love to fight with. They call Pork, Haraam! So, for a very long time, history pointed to the restoration of the gospel.

Ellen, I don't think that Acts 10:13 was actually telling Peter that those animals considered unclean were now okay to eat. If you remember this was in a vision to Peter and he did not really understand what it meant. Read on down to Acts 10:17.

"Now while Peter doubted in himself what this vision which he had seen should mean, behold, the men which were sent from Cornelius had made inquiry for Simon’s house, and stood before the gate,"

Then read Acts 10:28, "And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean."

This vision is one that is telling Peter to carry the gospel message to the Gentiles. If you read that chapter in that context, it may shed a different light on 10:13.

Glenn

[volgadon]

It is funny to find so many cultural similarities between the Muslim and Jewish people. There are many, far more than they either side is willing to admit.

Not strictly true. A large percentage of Jews in Israel either lived in a Muslim or Arab country, or their parents did. They are certainly open about a shared culture with their Muslim neighbours, though they also mention the differences just as much. Sometimes the emphasis on similarities goes too far, such as when a Moroccan Jew at a street stand in Tiberias was saying that the new Eyal Golan song was a Farid al-Atrash melody, when it turns out not to be. Also, I know for a fact that the Israeli genre of Mizrachit music was very hip in Syria a few years ago.

When it comes to the academic side of things many scholars have shown Muslim influence on Jewish life, ideas, and theology (and vice-versa), there is even a highly favourable reference to Muhamad in ibn Pakuda's Duties of the Hearts. A significant amount of the Yad Ben-Tzvi institute's efforts, such as the journal Peamim, are directed towards documenting and analysing the lives of the Jewish communities in Arab and Muslim lands.

[CV75]

So, in the news now, I read that those who eat pork on a regular basis, will die 44% sooner. I'm still working on this. I am just trying to figure out what was going on in Acts when forbidden meats were allowed?

FWIW, the 44% increased likelihood for early death pertains to diets high in processed meats (160g or more of bacon, ham, sausage, etc.). But there are more important high-risk diet and substance use (WoW-related) behaviors that one should quit first (statistically, anyway).

[pmccombs1]

So, in the news now, I read that those who eat pork on a regular basis, will die 44% sooner. I'm still working on this. I am just trying to figure out what was going on in Acts when forbidden meats were allowed?

What was it that Brigham Young said? Something along the lines of how he knew as well as Moses that pig's flesh is not fit for consumption? Anyone know a source for that offhand?

Well, nutrition is a controversial field. There's a lot of "religion" in it, if you like. I've been informed on the subject by the likes of T. Colin Campbell and Steven Aldana. Those are some credentialed researchers and they claim that the research is fairly conclusive against Meaty diets of all kinds. Mind you, they've had some run-ins with special interests who don't like that conclusion. Campbell suggests eliminating the meat and dairy altogether, based on his extensive research, and Aldana thinks we ought to at least greatly limit our intake of it.

[Buzzard]

I'll give up my bacon when they pry it from my warm, greasy fingers.

[EllenMaksoud]

FWIW, the 44% increased likelihood for early death pertains to diets high in processed meats (160g or more of bacon, ham, sausage, etc.). But there are more important high-risk diet and substance use (WoW-related) behaviors that one should quit first (statistically, anyway).

Well, let's see. Since I am not Muslim any more, I started heating bacon again. Hmmm, I suppose bacon is off now. I don't drink or smoke, though I was raised on second hand smoke. Weight is not an issue...

[EllenMaksoud]

I do see them as highly complementary. It is a pleasure to live among Muslims; there is much peace and joy that can be found living side by side. On those occasions when more than a passing questions about religion comes up, it is wonderful to see how well we relate one with another.

I loved my 6+ years as Muslim. The Islamic traditions about Jesus Christ finally brought me back to Christianity, and it couldn't be just any christianity. I think it had to be restored christianity.

[EllenMaksoud]

A link to this please?

I was told a few decades ago that eating pork was unhealthy because it is very close to our own muscle, etc. in terms of makeup and the digestive acids etc. that are used to process it will then go on to 'digest' our own tissues, causing damage.

I didn't buy that idea then, don't buy it now but I have never been able to tolerate pork all that well (not chicken either for some reason) and am interested in any information that might suggest why.

I could not find the exact link I saw on Friday, but here is one. http://www.peta.org/living/vegetarian-living/top-10-reasons-not-to-eat-pigs.aspx

For me pork is again Haraam.

[Calm]

Thanks.

[EllenMaksoud]

Ellen, I don't think that Acts 10:13 was actually telling Peter that those animals considered unclean were now okay to eat. If you remember this was in a vision to Peter and he did not really understand what it meant. Read on down to Acts 10:17.

"Now while Peter doubted in himself what this vision which he had seen should mean, behold, the men which were sent from Cornelius had made inquiry for Simon’s house, and stood before the gate,"

Then read Acts 10:28, "And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean."

This vision is one that is telling Peter to carry the gospel message to the Gentiles. If you read that chapter in that context, it may shed a different light on 10:13.

Glenn

Wow, so pork was in fact still haraam! I wonder how some of my old EV friends would take this? There are just lots of fast food places that put complementary bacon on salads and hamburgers. I even asked for that not to happen and they still did it.

[EllenMaksoud]

I'll give up my bacon when they pry it from my warm, greasy fingers.

[EllenMaksoud]

What was it that Brigham Young said? Something along the lines of how he knew as well as Moses that pig's flesh is not fit for consumption? Anyone know a source for that offhand?

Well, nutrition is a controversial field. There's a lot of "religion" in it, if you like. I've been informed on the subject by the likes of T. Colin Campbell and Steven Aldana. Those are some credentialed researchers and they claim that the research is fairly conclusive against Meaty diets of all kinds. Mind you, they've had some run-ins with special interests who don't like that conclusion. Campbell suggests eliminating the meat and dairy altogether, based on his extensive research, and Aldana thinks we ought to at least greatly limit our intake of it.

The think about religious prohibitions is there always seems to be an abundance of people who use these things to torment the less compliant. My first exposure to D&C 89 was quite surprising though I had little argument with it, particularly the advisement on meat consumption seemed really smart, particularly from a man living in the 1830's. I argued about my coffee consumption, because I really liked one cup of weak coffee with lots of milk and brown sugar in the morning. The Sister Missionaries did not argue with me much, so I thought I won. AS IF !

A couple weeks later, I realized that I was not drinking coffee. To have that quietly removed from my life with little chance to rebel did a lot to convince me that Heavenly Father was a presence in my life not to be trifled with.

[Alan]

Personally it seems to me that, as things stand these days in western countries, there really is no excuse for Mormons to eat any kind of meat, pork or otherwise.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

So, thousands of years, the Jews felt that Pork was impure; in fact it was non Kosher. Leviticus 11:7-8 prohibit it. Of course the jews still forbid it. I was doing a bit of research and found that the Muslims got their prohibition of it from the Jews. It's a bit odd because now days Muslims and Jews seem to be locked in a duel to the death. Yet, in their own cultural ethic they say that they believe in the old book (Meaning loosely what we call the old testament.)

I did not get that information from scholarship but from what the Imam's told me. They were really reticent to talk much about "The Book"; that's what they call it, you know. They call Christians, "The People of the Book". They say that after Isa PBUH, the people of "The Book" became apostate and left the true path. Does this story sound familiar to you? So, the Muslims follow some of the laws of the Jews who they love to fight with. They call Pork, Haraam! So, for a very long time, history pointed to the restoration of the gospel.

So, here pork has been non-kosher, and haraam for thousands of years, and then in Acts 10:13 suddenly it's OK to eat it. Personally, I felt that the old church started going Apostate during the book of Acts.

So, I was raised on fried pork chops, fried potatoes, and okra. In the 50's pork was cheap; in fact we raised a lot of our own. Most of the food we ate came from our farm, except flower, and most spices.

So, in D&C 89:12-13 it was a bit of a surprise to me that a man back in 1930 would know that too much meat was unhealthy.

So, in the news now, I read that those who eat pork on a regular basis, will die 44% sooner. I'm still working on this. I am just trying to figure out what was going on in Acts when forbidden meats were allowed?

Jews and Muslims have a lot in common...Moses, Jesus as a Prophet, dietary laws, OT.

[Calm]

Personally it seems to me that, as things stand these days in western countries, there really is no excuse for Mormons to eat any kind of meat, pork or otherwise.

What about for those of us who get sick if we don't?

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

What about for those of us who get sick if we don't?

I don't eat anymore, nor any less. Hamburgers and bacon...food of the God's.