Lawsuit Filed To End Yoga Instruction In Encinitas Schools

[BCSpace]

Yes, but it's not ample. Time to open up the public schools to the market. Government has no business teaching our children.

[blackstrap]

Yes, but it's not ample. Time to open up the public schools to the market. Government has no business teaching our children.

Because it is a HUGE business and basically a monopoly, the government camel stuck its nose in the tent years ago and currently occupies all but a tiny corner.

[The Nehor]

Yes, but it's not ample. Time to open up the public schools to the market. Government has no business teaching our children.

Indeed, then we can divide into ranks based on opportunities for learning. I am sure it will turn out better this time.

[The Nehor]

Because it is a HUGE business and basically a monopoly, the government camel stuck its nose in the tent years ago and currently occupies all but a tiny corner.

It is interesting to note that the huge moves towards public schools were largely the work of the wealthy trying to inculcate a deep sense of patriotism and respect for government within the minds of the children if the poor.....mostly because they feared revolutionary ideas. They threw in reading and writing and arithmetic too. All part of the rightist capitalist conspiracy.

[Storm Rider]

I guess TSS thinks we should be like sweden and pay for every child's education from pre-school to post-doctoral research.

(see other people can twist words too)

I guess I am not understanding the downside to the government paying for the education of its citizens. Could anyone elaborate on the evils of an educated citizenry? I think I must be a little slower than normal today.

[bluebell]

I guess I am not understanding the downside to the government paying for the education of its citizens. Could anyone elaborate on the evils of an educated citizenry? I think I must be a little slower than normal today.

I think the downside that some people see is that the government is not very successful in their education of the citizenry (or, at the very least, not very successful all of the time).

And, some people believe that since the government rarely (ever?) does anything as well as a private company, that the obvious solution to public school ills is to take it private.

[Saints Alive]

I guess I am not understanding the downside to the government paying for the education of its citizens. Could anyone elaborate on the evils of an educated citizenry? I think I must be a little slower than normal today.

Its not a matter of how educated the citizenry is, its who is paying for it and are they getting their moneys worth.

[Storm Rider]

Its not a matter of how educated the citizenry is, its who is paying for it and are they getting their moneys worth.

I still may be missing something, but I assume that our taxes pay for the education of all children. The issue of is our money being effectively, efficiently used is another topic. I really wish that the cost of college education would come down; it is getting too expensive and is resulting in a further widening of the haves and the have-nots. At one time I was a big supporter of our public education system. When our children were in middle school we took them out and enrolled them in private schools until they graduated from high school. Although their annual tuition was several times more expensive than BYU schools, we are confident that it was an outstanding investment. Regardless, I still believe in public education.

[Saints Alive]

I still may be missing something, but I assume that our taxes pay for the education of all children. The issue of is our money being effectively, efficiently used is another topic. I really wish that the cost of college education would come down; it is getting too expensive and is resulting in a further widening of the haves and the have-nots. At one time I was a big supporter of our public education system. When our children were in middle school we took them out and enrolled them in private schools until they graduated from high school. Although their annual tuition was several times more expensive than BYU schools, we are confident that it was an outstanding investment. Regardless, I still believe in public education.

the reason college is so expensive is exactly because the government helps pay for it. The amount of federal aid a student receives is primarily based on the students family income and how much it costs to go to the college. If the college wants more money they raise tuition, the government gives more aid and the student pays more in the long run.

[bluebell]

I still may be missing something, but I assume that our taxes pay for the education of all children. The issue of is our money being effectively, efficiently used is another topic. I really wish that the cost of college education would come down; it is getting too expensive and is resulting in a further widening of the haves and the have-nots. At one time I was a big supporter of our public education system. When our children were in middle school we took them out and enrolled them in private schools until they graduated from high school. Although their annual tuition was several times more expensive than BYU schools, we are confident that it was an outstanding investment. Regardless, I still believe in public education.

Not only is college become too expensive, but a degree has become practically worthless at the same time that it is almost always a requirement now.

What I mean by that is, i've seen advertisements for jobs that wanted the person to have a five year degree plus five years experience and they paid less than being a substitute bus driver (seriously, i'm not making that up). In one way, it is completely worthless to pay tens of thousands of dollars for a degree that might not benefit you financially, but on the other hand, who wants to be a substitute bus driver for the rest of their lives? Or a custodian? Not that there's anything wrong with such careers but most people aspire to more lofty goals when they are starting out and if those jobs require a degree, then you have to get one, regardless of whether or not it's going to always make financial sense.

My father is a higher level boss in the company that he works for right now, which is a very large natural gas company that he's worked for for almost 40 years. Just recently, the company started to require degrees for anyone attempting to get hired at the ground level (these are basic blue collar jobs). It drives my father nuts, because he's been hiring people for years and he's never lost out hiring a guy with only a high school education and real world experience. Even when they come to him with a degree it's worthless because the degree never actually prepares them for what they will be doing, and he still has to train them just as much as someone without it. In some ways requiring a person to have a degree for such a job is about as useful as requiring that them to have the letter 'i' in their name, but it's what the business world is coming too.

And don't even get me started on the role that colleges play in all of us. They really are just huge money making machines which are designed to bring in as much money as possible regardless of the impact on the student or the final product. I recently completely my bachelors degree and still go into a bit of shock when i think back to how much my books cost each semester. In fact, i had one semester where my books cost more than that semester's tuition and where i got 56 dollars back at the end of the semester selling the books back. Even being able to sell books back was a miracle as many of my classes (such as spanish) used brand new books every semester because the school made more money off of them-even when nothing in the books changed.

This same school messed up my schedule, which required me to have to take one summer class in order to graduate. This one, online, 3 credit class, which did not require me to use any of the school's resources or even step foot on campus, cost me 1200 dollars. My bill included things like 'activitiy fees', 'computer fees', 'sports fees'-all for a class that i took from my own home. The actual tuition for the class was less than 400 dollars. The whole thing was such a racket.

I really do believe that education will be the next bubble to burst. The costs are out of control, the debt to students is out of control, and the product is worth less and less every year on the market. It's going to be a disaster when it all falls apart.

[thesometimesaint]

I guess TSS thinks we should be like sweden and pay for every child's education from pre-school to post-doctoral research.

(see other people can twist words too)

Norway I'm fine with, Sweden not so much. Better yet what Thomas Jefferson recommended. Free public education through college. He even when so far as to state that an educated citizenry was essential in our form of government.

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Developed_country

[thesometimesaint]

bluebell:

If you think education is expensive try ignorance.

Derek, Bok

Before I retired I was in a job that required a degree. My real education started with my first day on the job.

[bluebell]

bluebell:

If you think education is expensive try ignorance.

Derek, Bok

Before I retired I was in a job that required a degree. My real education started with my first day on the job.

Education doesn't have to be expensive (most of south and central america have been doing free education through college for decades). The issue isn't about being educated or being dumb.

[thesometimesaint]

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_Index

[Skylla]

Keep politics out of this thread. Posts are being deleted.

[The Nehor]

the reason college is so expensive is exactly because the government helps pay for it. The amount of federal aid a student receives is primarily based on the students family income and how much it costs to go to the college. If the college wants more money they raise tuition, the government gives more aid and the student pays more in the long run.

The cost of education also increases. They also use government funding to support pure research at schools, something I hope no one wants to end.

The education bubble needs to burst. While there is nothing wrong with an educated citizenry the reality is we have jobs that do not require an education but degrees are required anyways. I am in favor of equal opportunity for education but I am opposed to more college graduates. On a global level I think the debts people are leaving college with are too high, in some cases especially due to the uselessness if the degree. I knew a newlywed couple with $100k in debt and a pair of philosophy degrees. The story did not go well. On a personal level the more people who get degrees the less valuable mine is.

Part of this is built into our business culture. I am getting paid more then the best employee in our department. She knows more, does more, and is more skilled at the job then I am (I am new and plan to close the gap) but they will not give her a raise due to her not having a degree.

[thesometimesaint]

The Nehor:

While there will always be a need for lessor skilled employment I think it is a mistake to equate an education with the demands of the business model. I remember well the time when engineers were a dime a dozen. Not only does our system of government requires a highly knowledgeable electorate to exist. It adds immeasurably to our personal satisfaction. The ill-informed as well as the uninformed do nothing to promote the general welfare.

[The Nehor]

The Nehor:

While there will always be a need for lessor skilled employment I think it is a mistake to equate an education with the demands of the business model. I remember well the time when engineers were a dime a dozen. Not only does our system of government requires a highly knowledgeable electorate to exist. It adds immeasurably to our personal satisfaction. The ill-informed as well as the uninformed do nothing to promote the general welfare.

I agree that it is satisfying to learn but I question the value of formal education in achieving that goal.

As for being politically informed I have not seen formal education as much of a help there. In public schools other then basic patriotism and history we learned next to nothing to stay neutral. When I went to college the few classes I took taught me how the government worked. Everything else I picked up as an interest. In my experience a little bit of knowledge is more dangerous then having none. No citizen serves the nation worse then one who is a moron but imagines himself wise and informed.

I think democracy is an inferior form of government to rule by the wise. Sadly the wise are as fallen as the rest of us and cannot be trusted so democracy is a good safeguard in the meantime. I certainly do not think that the "will of the American People" (gotta love that phrase) represents some vast collection of pooled wisdom and discernment.

[thesometimesaint]

While I'm well past the stage where I even desire more formal education( IE; Going to school. No desire to take tests, regurgitate what some professor says, and it is frankly a bore to write position papers telling why a book I'm forced to read is wrong) I strive to learn at least one new thing everyday. Most everything thing I learned about my career choice was obsolete by the time I graduated from college. It was the subjects not directly connected to my career that have given me the most satisfaction. So even if it doesn't put another penny in my pocket. I'm enriched by it.

I agree that one of the functions of primary education is to instill a basic sense of patriotism in children, and a rudimentary understanding of how our government works. I guess I was lucky. In the 7th grade we studied the USSR, and by 9th grade were reading Mein Kampf, and the Communist Manifesto in Huntsville; Alabama of the 1960's, of all places. By the late 60's the Vietnam War was hot and heavy so naturally the topics of the Draft, the Domino Theory and the roll of Oil were cussed and discussed. The first Earth Day was when I was in HS. I really did get the best education public, and sometimes private, monies could buy. I've watched as Sputnik orbited the earth, and watched as the Berlin Wall came down. My only regret is that I didn't learn more. Oh if I only knew then what I know now.

I agree that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. OTOH with great knowledge comes great responsibility. God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,The courage to change the things I can, And wisdom to know the difference. I'm not too sure we have such wisdom.

If we're of at least normal intelligence there is no excuse to act like a moron. I have pity for the true morons, but little patience for those of us that simply act like one.

We are blessed, and cursed, with the opportunity to govern ourselves. We are a Republic, IF we can keep it.

[The Nehor]

I prefer the alternative serenity prayer which seems to me more practical:

God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,The courage to change the things I can, And the wisdom to hide the bodies of those I had to kill because they ticked me off.