Ward Directory Changed

[The Nehor]

Finally, an advantage to being single. No one can usurp my place or claim equality. I rule all before my eyes.

Nope.....still not counteracting the disadvantages.

[Scott Lloyd]

Finally, an advantage to being single. No one can usurp my place or claim equality. I rule all before my eyes.

Nope.....still not counteracting the disadvantages.

There's exclusive possession of the remote control -- very important, according to the Sandra Bullock character in "While You Were Sleeping."

[The Nehor]

There's exclusive possession of the remote control -- very important, according to the Sandra Bullock character in "While You Were Sleeping."

I almost never watch TV.

[Scott Lloyd]

I just added this to my prior post:

Just checked my iPod version of LDS Tools again. Turns out that the name in bold face is the name you've tapped on, though father (or mother, if she is a single parent) is still listed first in any case.

So I hereby correct myself.

[Duncan]

At my house, that would be our 7-year-old daughter, my wife and me -- in that order.

seriously, when a telemarketer calls and asks for the man of the household I give it to my 9yr old

we don't have ward directories we have stake directories. In the stake directory no names are bolded

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

Previously it only listed the husband as head of houseld. It now lists the husband and wife as head of household.

It reminded me of a quote I read the other day.

"Under the plan of heaven, the husband and the wife walk side by side as companions, neither one ahead of the other, but a daughter of God and a son of God walking side by side. Let your families be families of love and peace and happiness. Gather your children around you and have your family home evenings, teach your children the ways of the Lord, read to them from the scriptures, and let them come to know the great truths of the eternal gospel as set forth in these words of the Almighty" ("Selections from Addresses of President Gordon B. Hinckley,"

How do people find these things out...it was supposed to be a hush, hush. . Besides everyone in my Ward knows my wife is in charge. Edited December 4, 2012 by Bill “Papa” Lee

[Saints Alive]

Finally, an advantage to being single. No one can usurp my place or claim equality. I rule all before my eyes...

I think we now see the reason for your singleness.

[Calm]

Someone could take a screen shot I think if it was needed to demonstrate what everyone is trying to talk about.

[canard78]

You can just log into Lds.org and click on 'Directory'

(Sorry on mobile so can't right now, and would there be data protection issues?)

To paint a picture with words... You click on the family name on the list, which brings up two boxes on the right the first box is titled 'head of household' and has the man and womans full name underneath. The box below has "other household members" with all the kids.

[Pandorian]

Are we still supposed to invite the husband and father (not the wife) to call on someone to pray during home teaching visits?

My wife is always asking me to ask someone to pray. I guess she was taught it was my duty. I usually then ask..."Who would like to volunteer?" Then when no one volunteers, I usually do it.

[The Nehor]

I think we now see the reason for your singleness.

I know. It is hard to find a companion to be equally yoked to when you are as perfect as me.

[canard78]

My wife is always asking me to ask someone to pray. I guess she was taught it was my duty. I usually then ask..."Who would like to volunteer?" Then when no one volunteers, I usually do it.

I always just ask the HT companion who didn't give the lesson. In fact I thought was past cultural and approaching doctrinal

[Saints Alive]

So, would it not be correct to say that the wife IS at least a part of the "head of household"? I mean we are supposed to model our marriages after the godhead, so as Christ and HF are coequal and members of the godhead would not our spouses also be co-equal members of the household-head, if I may coin a term.

[Buckeye]

Are we still supposed to invite the husband and father (not the wife) to call on someone to pray during home teaching visits?

I can confirm the change in my online directory. Both my wife and I are listed under the title "Head of Household", though I am listed before her within that category. This change is not a huge deal for me, but it is a nice recognition of how my wife and I view our family structure - with both of us as co-equal heads.

As for HT visits, most of my families are lead by single sisters so there is no judgment call to make. I ask the mother as she is the sole head. One family has a member mother and non-member father. As he is somewhat uncomfortable leading in religious things, we've worked to the point where I simply ask her who she would like to pray. My final family is an elderly couple, both of whom are members. I usually phrase the question "Brother and Sister Smith, who would like to offer a prayer". The husband almost always responds. In general, my practice is let each family decide how it is to be governed and to respect that decision.

[Duncan]

I can confirm the change in my online directory. Both my wife and I are listed under the title "Head of Household", though I am listed before her within that category. This change is not a huge deal for me, but it is a nice recognition of how my wife and I view our family structure - with both of us as co-equal heads.

As for HT visits, most of my families are lead by single sisters so there is no judgment call to make. I ask the mother as she is the sole head. One family has a member mother and non-member father. As he is somewhat uncomfortable leading in religious things, we've worked to the point where I simply ask her who she would like to pray. My final family is an elderly couple, both of whom are members. I usually phrase the question "Brother and Sister Smith, who would like to offer a prayer". The husband almost always responds. In general, my practice is let each family decide how it is to be governed and to respect that decision.

I just ask 'so, who uh you know wants to pray here?" and whoever responds says who gets to pray, let them decide. I am nothing if not a passive agressive diplomat

[Scott Lloyd]

Someone could take a screen shot I think if it was needed to demonstrate what everyone is trying to talk about.

I thought of that. Problem is, it publicizes private information.

[Scott Lloyd]

My wife is always asking me to ask someone to pray. I guess she was taught it was my duty. I usually then ask..."Who would like to volunteer?" Then when no one volunteers, I usually do it.

If you're talking about meal times and family prayer, I execute the duty in this way:

I use the electronic calendar on my iPod touch. We have six people in our household, so I schedule each person every sixth day as the designated giver of all the prayers for that day. It saves me from having to hem and haw, and no one can complain that he or she is being called on too often or not often enough, because my comeback can always be: "You are called on to pray once every six days, no more and no less often."

[Scott Lloyd]

I can confirm the change in my online directory. Both my wife and I are listed under the title "Head of Household", though I am listed before her within that category.

This has already been established. The problem is that it's ambiguous. Without asking someone involved in the new lds.org web design, there's no way to ascertain whether the header "Head of Household" is intended to apply to both the husband and wife or only the person listed first, which, as far as I can tell, is always the husband where both husband and wife are present.

I still maintain that its just a matter of web design, and that it's reading too much into it to say that it reflects a broader change in policy or doctrine.

Edited December 4, 2012 by Scott Lloyd

[Scott Lloyd]

So, would it not be correct to say that the wife IS at least a part of the "head of household"? I mean we are supposed to model our marriages after the godhead, so as Christ and HF are coequal and members of the godhead would not our spouses also be co-equal members of the household-head, if I may coin a term.

I am uncomfortable with the notion of the Father and Son being "co-equal."

Even though They are perfectly united in all They say and do, I don't see that there can be any question that the Father is supreme.

[Buckeye]

This has already been established. The problem is that it's ambiguous. Without asking someone involved in the new lds.org web design, there's no way to ascertain whether the header "Head of Household" is intended to apply to both the husband and wife or only the person listed first, which, as far as I can tell, is always the husband.

I still maintain that its just a matter of web design, and that it's reading too much into it to say that it reflects a broader change in policy or doctrine.

I don't know anyone involved in the web design, so I can only judge by what I see. For my family, under "Head of Household" I see my name and then my wife's. Following that is a header "Other Household Members" and then the names of our five children sequenced oldest to youngest.

In my view it is obvious that my wife is categorized in MLS as a "head of household" because her name is placed under that category. To conclude otherwise would require me to similarly conclude that the header "Other Household Members" applies only to our oldest child - whose name falls directly under it - rather than to all our children who are listed under it. That is just absurb. Also, if the headers are only to apply to the first name following it, then my wife and four of our children are left without a category. It seems highly dubious that the webdesigners would intend their categories to be read to exclude 5/7 of my family. Much more likely that they included everyone.

I also looked up a family in the ward which has no children at home. For them, there is only one category - HOH - followed by the husband then the wife. So again, if the wife is not part of HOH, what is she?

[Scott Lloyd]

I don't know anyone involved in the web design, so I can only judge by what I see.

That's all anyone can do where ambiguity is concerned.

In my view it is obvious that my wife is categorized in MLS as a "head of household" because her name is placed under that category.

Obvious to you, perhaps, but not to others. One could draw a reasonable conclusion either way. That's what makes it ambiguous.

To conclude otherwise would require me to similarly conclude that the header "Other Household Members" applies only to our oldest child - whose name falls directly under it - rather than to all our children who are listed under it.

Not necessarily. The header "Other Household Members" is quite obviously plural. Not so with the header "Head of Household." One could make the case that there can be only one head of an entity -- the human body for example. In fact, I'm fairly confident that the term head as it applies to the one in charge is drawn from the analogy of human anatomy.

Also, if the headers are only to apply to the first name following it, then my wife and four of our children are left without a category.

No. The placement of your wife's name just under yours identifies her as your spouse. The children are all in the category "Other Household Members." If the wife were placed under "Other Household Members" along with the children there would be no way to determine she was the wife and mother in the home.

I also looked up a family in the ward which has no children at home. For them, there is only one category - HOH - followed by the husband then the wife. So again, if the wife is not part of HOH, what is she?

Arguably the wife of the head of the household. See above.

Your argument would be more compelling if you could find a reasonable number of instances where the wife's name is listed above the husband's in the category "Head of Household." I doubt you can, but you are welcome to try.

Edited December 4, 2012 by Scott Lloyd

[Saints Alive]

I am uncomfortable with the notion of the Father and Son being "co-equal."

Even though They are perfectly united in all They say and do, I don't see that there can be any question that the Father is supreme.

If both are omnipotent and eternal I'm not sure how they could not be co-equal.

[Buckeye]

Perhaps it would help if someone knows how female spouses were previously categorized within MLS. Were they under a "spouse" header? Were they under "Other Household Members"? Something else?

[Scott Lloyd]

If both are omnipotent and eternal I'm not sure how they could not be co-equal.

Well, for starters, see this page from the Church's "Guide to the Scriptures" which speaks of God the Father as "the supreme ruler of the universe" and Jesus Christ as working under His direction.

[Calm]

, so as Christ and HF are coequal

CFR please