Ward Directory Changed

[tyler90az]

Previously it only listed the husband as head of houseld. It now lists the husband and wife as head of household.

It reminded me of a quote I read the other day.

"Under the plan of heaven, the husband and the wife walk side by side as companions, neither one ahead of the other, but a daughter of God and a son of God walking side by side. Let your families be families of love and peace and happiness. Gather your children around you and have your family home evenings, teach your children the ways of the Lord, read to them from the scriptures, and let them come to know the great truths of the eternal gospel as set forth in these words of the Almighty" ("Selections from Addresses of President Gordon B. Hinckley,"

[Scott Lloyd]

Are we still supposed to invite the husband and father (not the wife) to call on someone to pray during home teaching visits?

Edited December 3, 2012 by Scott Lloyd

[rongo]

How recent is this change? I was released on November 4, so I haven't had MLS access since then.

No matter what, the system would still allow you to designate a head of household, wouldn't it? Thus, we misogynists could still go back and put the fathers as HOH, right?

[BCSpace]

Are we still supposed to invite the husband and father (note the wife) to call on someone to pray during home teaching visits?

Yes. He is the priesthood authority in the home and the head of the household.

[Scott Lloyd]

How recent is this change? I was released on November 4, so I haven't had MLS access since then.

No matter what, the system would still allow you to designate a head of household, wouldn't it? Thus, we misogynists could still go back and put the fathers as HOH, right?

Tyler90az identified it as his "ward directory," which might be nothing more than a typed-off and photocopied sheet.

The "LDS Tools" app on my iPod touch, an official product provided by the Church (the app, that is, not the iPod) still lists the name of the husband first and in the list of family members, still puts his name in bold face, wherever the household has an intact marriage.

And as a membership clerk, I'm pretty certain this reflects the way things are still done on MLS. In entering or transferring records, we still must designate a head of household, and we tend to give that distinction to the husband where we can.

Edited to add:

Just checked my iPod version of LDS Tools again. Turns out that the name in bold face is the name you've tapped on, though father (or mother, if she is a single parent) is still listed first in any case.

So I hereby correct myself.

Edited December 4, 2012 by Scott Lloyd

[bluebell]

Tyler90az identified it as his "ward directory," which might be nothing more than a typed-off and photocopied sheet.

The "LDS Tools" app on my iPod touch, an official product provided by the Church (the app, that is, not the iPod) still lists the name of the husband first and in the list of family members, still puts his name in bold face, wherever the household has an intact marriage.

And as a membership clerk, I'm pretty certain this reflects the way things are still done on MLS.

I just looked at the lds tools that is provided on lds.org and tyler's right. Both myself and my husband are now listed under 'head of household'.

His name is listed first, but both our names are typed in the same font and size and neither is in bold.

[Scott Lloyd]

I just looked at the lds tools that is provided on lds.org and tyler's right. Both myself and my husband are now listed under 'head of household'.

His name is listed first, but both our names are typed in the same font and size and neither is in bold.

Link, please.

[bluebell]

Link, please.

As you know, you can't link to ward directories on lds.org, because it requires someone to log in to LDS tools in order to prove that you have a right to access a ward directory (and even after logging in, you can only view ward directories from your stake, of course, and not any others). Unless you can show up at my house and look at my computer screen, i don't think there is anyway for me to prove to you what the ward directory for my ward says at lds.org.

I'm sure you can just go to lds.org yourself, log yourself into the ldstools section and look at your own ward directory, and find the info you want.

Edited December 3, 2012 by bluebell

[Scott Lloyd]

As you know, you can't link to ward directories on lds.org, because it requires someone to log in to LDS tools in order to prove that you have a right to access a ward directory (and even after logging in, you can only view ward directories from your stake, of course, and not any others). Unless you can show up at my house and look at my computer screen, i don't think there is anyway for me to prove to you what the ward directory for my ward says at lds.org.

I'm sure you can just go to lds.org yourself, log yourself into the ldstools section and look at your own ward directory, and find the info you want.

Good point.

Edited to add:

I don't know what to say, Bluebell. I went to lds.org, signed in, navigated to my ward directory, clicked on my name, and found myself designated as the head of my household.

I found that to be the typical pattern with other families in the ward where husband and wife names are both listed.

Of course that doesn't surprise me, because, as I've already mentioned, I know as the ward membership clerk that when we are keeping records, we are obliged to designate one person as the head of household, and where husband and wife are both present, that designation always goes to the husband. As far as I know, we've never been directed to do otherwise.

Edited again to add:

I think I see now the source of confusion.

The website has undergone a recent redesign, and there is a header, "Head of Household," under which the name of both the husband and wife appear individually with the husband's name appearing first. Apparently you (and, presumably, tyler90az) perceive that arrangement as indicating that both husband and wife are the head of the household.

I admit, it is ambiguous. But I must reiterate what I said above, that in record keeping, ward clerks and assistant ward clerks are instructed to designate one individual as the head of the household. If there has been a change in this direction, I have yet to hear about it. If I do, I'll let you know in this forum.

Edited December 3, 2012 by Scott Lloyd

[DavidB]

For the doubting Thomases, I will now add my witness, head of household block list husband and wife "Other Household Members" list children or others in the household.

Though I suppose for the hypertechnical it would appear the husband is listed first one the "Head of Household" block.

[Scott Lloyd]

For the doubting Thomases, I will now add my witness, head of household block list husband and wife "Other Household Members" list children or others in the household.

Though I suppose for the hypertechnical it would appear the husband is listed first one the "Head of Household" block.

frankenstein/DavidB,

Please see my post — including my later additions to it — immediately prior to yours.

Edited December 3, 2012 by Scott Lloyd

[KevinG]

I went to lds.org, signed in, navigated to my ward directory, clicked on my name, and found myself designated as the head of my household.

That is a special traditional format for Utah Mormons.

[bluebell]

Good point.

Edited to add:

I don't know what to say, Bluebell. I went to lds.org, signed in, navigated to my ward directory, clicked on my name, and found myself designated as the head of my household.

I found that to be the typical pattern with other families in the ward where husband and wife names are both listed.

Of course that doesn't surprise me, because, as I've already mentioned, I know as the ward membership clerk that when we are keeping records, we are obliged to designate one person as the head of household, and where husband and wife are both present, that designation always goes to the husband. As far as I know, we've never been directed to do otherwise.

Edited again to add:

I think I see now the source of confusion.

The website has undergone a recent redesign, and there is a header, "Head of Household," under which the name of both the husband and wife appear individually with the husband's name appearing first. Apparently you (and, presumably, tyler90az) perceive that arrangement as indicating that both husband and wife are the head of the household.

I admit, it is ambiguous. But I must reiterate what I said above, that in record keeping, ward clerks and assistant ward clerks are instructed to designate one individual as the head of the household. If there has been a change in this direction, I have yet to hear about it. If I do, I'll let you know in this forum.

I don't really care either way.

I know who i am and my and my husband's place in our family in my Heavenly Father's eyes, and whatever the ward directory designates doesn't affect that in any way, shape, or form. I know i'm absolutely equal to my husband-my husband leads our family with my permission just like all husbands do, because following is a choice and without me making it, he'd be all by himself somewhere, heading up zero households, priesthood holder or not.

I just know that in my ward directory, no special designation is given my husband. The only name that is bolded is our last name (with no first names even listed). Since there was a remark that tyler might have been going off a printed ward directory, it seemed important to second what he said and relate that no, it actually is on lds.org that way and is not unique to his ward.

[Scott Lloyd]

That is a special traditional format for Utah Mormons.

You mean they're doing it different for everybody else and not telling us about it?

Reminds me of an old joke:

St. Peter is giving a newcomer a tour of heaven. As they pass a roomful of people, St. Peter tells him to be very quiet.

"Why?" asks the newcomer.

"Those are the Mormons, and they think they're the only ones up here."

Edited December 3, 2012 by Scott Lloyd

[Scott Lloyd]

I don't really care either way.

Nor do I.

I'm just saying it appears to be more of a cosmetic change in web design than a significant change in policy or doctrine.

I just know that in my ward directory, no special designation is given my husband.

There is if the header "Head of Household" is intended to apply only to his name, which is listed first.

As I said, it's ambiguous. Without the lds.org web designer here to ask, it is difficult to determine what is intended.

Edited December 3, 2012 by Scott Lloyd

[bluebell]

Nor do I.

I'm just saying it appears to be more of a cosmetic change in web design than a significant change in policy or doctrine.

Let's hope that what is doctrine is never dictated by the layout of a web page.

Now, if a change was made in part to help illustrate what we already believe and teach about husbands and wives in a marriage, i'm fine with the idea that a cosmetic change has been made in order to help illustrate that better to the ward at large.

Especially after hearing about a little 8 year old girl in a friend's primary class who piped up and said that women weren't as worthy as men and that that's why they couldn't hold the priesthood, per her father's teaching. Obviously, some people need all the help they can get.

Edited December 3, 2012 by bluebell

[Scott Lloyd]

Let's hope that what is doctrine is never dictated by the layout of a web page.

Indeed!

[DavidB]

If the past format is how some claim, then having both spouses listed under "Head of Household" would be a "policy" change of sorts.

But the format is neither here nor there, a change is a change, and if a change inspires someone to recollect what a Prophet has said - which speaking is sound Doctrine and instruction to the Saints - why attempt to count the number of Angles dancing on a needle tip?

[ERayR]

How recent is this change? I was released on November 4, so I haven't had MLS access since then.

No matter what, the system would still allow you to designate a head of household, wouldn't it? Thus, we misogynists could still go back and put the fathers as HOH, right?

New version of MLS downloaded a week or so ago. I had not noticed the change discuxxed but then I wasn't looking for it.

[KevinG]

I suspect that every time an employee at Church Headquarters makes a change to a web design, an update to a system or new promotional materials someone somewhere reads a deep meaning into the action.

"Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar." -S. Freud

[Scott Lloyd]

New version of MLS downloaded a week or so ago. I had not noticed the change discuxxed but then I wasn't looking for it.

Does the new version allow for the designation of two people as "head of household"?

If so, does the order matter? that is, can the wife be listed first where both husband and wife are in the home?

(I guess I need to get over to the clerk's office more often.)

Edited December 3, 2012 by Scott Lloyd

[KevinG]

When we get the version that allows for three heads of household I will think there is something doctrinal behind it.

[Scott Lloyd]

When we get the version that allows for three heads of household I will think there is something doctrinal behind it.

At my house, that would be our 7-year-old daughter, my wife and me -- in that order.

[KevinG]

Of course I forgot about the oldest daughter having the rights and privileges of Lieutenant Mom.

[Scott Lloyd]

Of course I forgot about the oldest daughter having the rights and privileges of Lieutenant Mom.

It's yet more intense if she's not just the oldest daughter but the only daughter.