azisbest Posted November 20, 2012 Posted November 20, 2012 During his mortal ministry, Jesus specified that two commandments were more important than the rest.Could I bother you for the chapter and verse on this?
peteolcott Posted November 20, 2012 Author Posted November 20, 2012 Cool, did that, no validation.Do you accept scripture? It can also be found in scripture.
peteolcott Posted November 20, 2012 Author Posted November 20, 2012 There are not a lot of rankings. The greatest commandment is to love God with everything you have. The second is to love your neighbor as you do yourself. The intended effect was to show that all commandments fall under one (or both) of these two commandments. Sentiments like the OP go too far. The truth is Jesus was disarming a heckler and not focused on communicating truth in the best way possible. Both commandments are quotations from the Torah.So are you saying that Chirst was somewhat less than completely sincere because of the context of why he said it?
peteolcott Posted November 20, 2012 Author Posted November 20, 2012 That is only one way to express love for God and not the most important. The most important way is to follow the first law of heaven which is obedience. "If ye love me keep my commandments" and all that.I am pretty sure that this is the only thing that he referred to as his own commandment:http://bible.cc/john/13-34.htmKeeping his commandment is not the same thing as keeping all the commandments such as those that forbid shaving one's sideburns.
Nathair/|\ Posted November 20, 2012 Posted November 20, 2012 Could I bother you for the chapter and verse on this?Sure, Mark 12:29-31
CV75 Posted November 20, 2012 Posted November 20, 2012 That is why I asked everyone here to cut through all the red tape and go straight to the source and directly validate this with the Holy Spirit.What did the Holy Spirit validate with you, according to the light and knowledge you possess? For example, what do you mean by “love,” “one another,” “higher priority,” “any,” “other,” “commandment,” “doctrine,” etc.? What do you think the Holy spirit meant? Until I know from where you are coming and what you mean, my response would be irrelevant.
The Nehor Posted November 20, 2012 Posted November 20, 2012 Do you accept scripture? It can also be found in scripture.Not in the way you are spinning it.
The Nehor Posted November 20, 2012 Posted November 20, 2012 So are you saying that Chirst was somewhat less than completely sincere because of the context of why he said it?No.
Calm Posted November 20, 2012 Posted November 20, 2012 I am pretty sure that this is the only thing that he referred to as his own commandment:http://bible.cc/john/13-34.htmKeeping his commandment is not the same thing as keeping all the commandments such as those that forbid shaving one's sideburns.And what of his comments that: 29 The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
Calm Posted November 20, 2012 Posted November 20, 2012 If love God is the greatest commandment, and the way to express love to God is to Love one another, then Love one another becomes the greatest commandment.Perhaps I missed it, but where in the scriptures does it say the only way to express love to God is to love one another?
peteolcott Posted November 21, 2012 Author Posted November 21, 2012 What did the Holy Spirit validate with you, according to the light and knowledge you possess? For example, what do you mean by “love,” “one another,” “higher priority,” “any,” “other,” “commandment,” “doctrine,” etc.? What do you think the Holy spirit meant? Until I know from where you are coming and what you mean, my response would be irrelevant.I will probably only have time to answer this one today, I work very long hours. This will not be a complete answer it is only intended to get you in the ballpark of the total answer.The words that I am about to say may only be the incorrect words of a fallible human. From the best that I can tell these words are from God's own heart. These words do not count until they are confirmed in your own heart.It is far better for you to pay for your heroin addiction with prostitution than it is to: disown, abandon and shun a family member that has utterly rejected the church.
The Nehor Posted November 21, 2012 Posted November 21, 2012 I will probably only have time to answer this one today, I work very long hours. This will not be a complete answer it is only intended to get you in the ballpark of the total answer.The words that I am about to say may only be the incorrect words of a fallible human. From the best that I can tell these words are from God's own heart. These words do not count until they are confirmed in your own heart.It is far better for you to pay for your heroin addiction with prostitution than it is to: disown, abandon and shun a family member that has utterly rejected the church.Cool, so.....anyone need a male prostitute? I have been wanting to try heroin.
volgadon Posted November 21, 2012 Posted November 21, 2012 Cool, so.....anyone need a male prostitute? I have been wanting to try heroin.After you've shunned not only your family, but also the neighbours, and even the mailman, what else is there to do?
treeface Posted November 21, 2012 Posted November 21, 2012 (edited) The commandment to Love One Another is to take much higher priority than any other commandment or doctrine, and applies to everyone that you come into contact with.The problem with giving a single statement higher priority than anything else is, people will inevitably twist the words to suit their own agenda. I am comfortable aligning myself with what I believe to be the meaning behind Jesus' injunction to love one another, but I am not comfortable committing to a specific wording to be followed to the letter above everything else.For example, if your agenda is to love your neighbor's wife, well how covenient to have Jesus' words to help you rationalize it! I'm not saying that's your interpretation, Pete, but I've seen the destructive effects of similar rationalization first hand.It is far better for you to pay for your heroin addiction with prostitution than it is to: disown, abandon and shun a family member that has utterly rejected the church.Hmmm. I don't approve of either one. Which should I judge and condemn the most strongly?Not approving of their actions is handled by Do not judge. Edited November 21, 2012 by treeface
peteolcott Posted November 22, 2012 Author Posted November 22, 2012 Not in the way you are spinning it.And yet you quoted the verses that confirm the way that I am spinning it. Combine the first commandment that you quoted:The greatest commandment is to love God with everything you have.with this verse http://bible.cc/matthew/25-40.htm
peteolcott Posted November 22, 2012 Author Posted November 22, 2012 The problem with giving a single statement higher priority than anything else is, people will inevitably twist the words to suit their own agenda. I am comfortable aligning myself with what I believe to be the meaning behind Jesus' injunction to love one another, but I am not comfortable committing to a specific wording to be followed to the letter above everything else.Here are some verses that agree with what you said and make more clear what I am saying:http://bible.cc/2_corinthians/3-6.htmhttp://bible.cc/proverbs/3-5.htmhttp://bible.cc/proverbs/3-6.htmhttp://bible.cc/galatians/5-14.htmhttp://bible.cc/galatians/5-18.htmhttp://bible.cc/galatians/5-22.htmhttp://bible.cc/galatians/5-23.htmI use the Fruit of the Spirit as the measure of Righteousness.http://bible.cc/matthew/7-20.htm
Calm Posted November 22, 2012 Posted November 22, 2012 (edited) And yet you quoted the verses that confirm the way that I am spinning it. Combine the first commandment that you quoted:The greatest commandment is to love God with everything you have.with this verse http://bible.cc/matthew/25-40.htmDo you believe that God will excuse those who focused completely on those who were in need while completely disregarding him?Do you think it is okay to hold anything in your heart higher than your esteem for God?In your view, is an atheist who has served the poor and needy all of her life automatically bound for heaven as having fully obeyed God's highest command even if she taught against him? Or those who condemn God because he has allowed the poor and needy to exist without stepping in to save them or allowed eons of suffering by mankind in general through ignorance, poverty, natural diasters, etc? Edited November 22, 2012 by calmoriah
peteolcott Posted November 22, 2012 Author Posted November 22, 2012 (edited) Do you believe that God will excuse those who focused completely on those who were in need while completely disregarding him?Because of the following verse, (previously quoted) I don't think that is possible:Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.Do you think it is okay to hold anything in your heart higher than your esteem for God?It seems to me that Love for one another, and the Fruit of the Spirit is (possibly the best) expression of great esteem for God. Also it seems to me that nothing much else matters much at all.In your view, is an atheist who has served the poor and needy all of her life automatically bound for heaven as having fully obeyed God's highest command even if she taught against him? Or those who condemn God because he has allowed the poor and needy to exist without stepping in to save them or allowed eons of suffering by mankind in general through ignorance, poverty, natural diasters, etc?It seems to me that no one should ever be condemned for any honest misunderstanding.It seems to me that Atheists that live by the fruit of the spirithttp://bible.cc/galatians/5-22.htmhttp://bible.cc/galatians/5-23.htmare closer to God's own heart than Christians that don't live this way. Edited November 22, 2012 by peteolcott
peteolcott Posted November 24, 2012 Author Posted November 24, 2012 (edited) What did the Holy Spirit validate with you, according to the light and knowledge you possess? For example, what do you mean by “love,” “one another,” “higher priority,” “any,” “other,” “commandment,” “doctrine,” etc.? What do you think the Holy spirit meant? Until I know from where you are coming and what you mean, my response would be irrelevant.This may be the mere incorrect opinion of a fallible man, or it may be God's own heart, you decide for yourself:http://bible.cc/galatians/5-14.htmhttp://bible.cc/galatians/5-22.htmhttp://bible.cc/galatians/5-23.htmIt is like Love is the whole law (Galatians 5:14) and thus the complete measure of righteousness.It is like the fruit of the spirit is the measure of this love, and only the direct opposite of the fruit of the spirit is the correct measure of unrighteousness.Galatians 5:22-23 NRSVBy contrast, the fruit of the Spirit is love(hate), joy(sorrow), peace(war), patience(impatience), kindness(animosity), generosity(greed), faithfulness(faithlessness), gentleness(harshness), and self-control. There is no law against such things.Things such as chronic alcoholism and drug addiction could be construed as insufficient or less than ideal love of self. Any and all of those things that are not the slightest degree of hateful of self or others would not be considered wrong, and these things are only wrong to the exact same extent that they are expressions of hatefulness of self or others. Edited November 24, 2012 by peteolcott
CV75 Posted November 27, 2012 Posted November 27, 2012 It is far better for you to pay for your heroin addiction with prostitution than it is to: disown, abandon and shun a family member that has utterly rejected the church.But then again, it is far better to do neither.
CV75 Posted November 27, 2012 Posted November 27, 2012 Any and all of those things that are not the slightest degree of hateful of self or others would not be considered wrongPlease provide examples of things that are "not the slightest degree of hateful of self or others" but are unjustly considered to be wrong by the unjust.
peteolcott Posted November 27, 2012 Author Posted November 27, 2012 But then again, it is far better to do neither.I get the feeling that God wants to start with utterly eliminating all hatred and animosity in the world.It seems that this will be the beginning of Heaven on Earth.
peteolcott Posted November 28, 2012 Author Posted November 28, 2012 Please provide examples of things that are "not the slightest degree of hateful of self or others" but are unjustly considered to be wrong by the unjust.We could simply start with anything at all that anyone thinks is the slightest degree of hateful or hurtful, that would seem to be a good start.
The Nehor Posted November 28, 2012 Posted November 28, 2012 And yet you quoted the verses that confirm the way that I am spinning it. Combine the first commandment that you quoted:The greatest commandment is to love God with everything you have.with this verse http://bible.cc/matthew/25-40.htmDoing and loving are not always synonyms. I am commanded to love God above all. I am commanded to love others as I love myself. Very different criteria there.I get the feeling that God wants to start with utterly eliminating all hatred and animosity in the world.It seems that this will be the beginning of Heaven on Earth.Can I add this to my latest edition of "No Duh" magazine. I have an article about how exercise is good for you and how smoking is bad for you and how eugenics is a bad thing but I need a few more obvious platitudes to fill the pages.We could simply start with anything at all that anyone thinks is the slightest degree of hateful or hurtful, that would seem to be a good start.And then stamp it out? Are you a follower of Christian Dominionist thought?
Recommended Posts