Something "Big" Coming Down Tomorrow?

[Saints Alive]

William here are excerpts from your first few posts:

I have heard several rumors and reports that have led me to conclude that something of extraordinary significance is to occur tomorrow

But I have now heard three separate reports that something extraordinary will be announced tomorrow.

guess it depends on what your definition of extraordinary is.

[Nathair/|\]

William here are excerpts from your first few posts:

I have heard several rumors and reports that have led me to conclude that something of extraordinary significance is to occur tomorrow

But I have now heard three separate reports that something extraordinary will be announced tomorrow.

I ask: What could be more extraordinary than being able to hear the mind and will of the Lord from the mouths of His chosen prophets and apostles from anywhere in the world?

[DavidB]

I ask: What could be more extraordinary than being able to hear the mind and will of the Lord from the mouths of His chosen prophets and apostles from anywhere in the world?

I offered essentially the same in post 47 of this thread.

[William Schryver]

William, rather than trying run from what you did here - your intent was to add to rumors. You referenced a friend, you referenced Elder Nelson, you clearly were wanting to add to rumors. Yet you are trying to run from what you did, by claiming you were just trying to examine a cultural phenomenon.

And it seems a bit disengineuos to label your posts above as you did, you post 2 was not post 84 in this thread.

As always context is the key and your first handful of posts were you deliberately adding to hype by pronounce your source "who is in a position to k ow more than the average Joe."

Quit badgering. - Ares

What exactly is your problem, other than struggling with the concept of parody? What exactly is your motivation with this strange personal attack?

[William Schryver]

I ask: What could be more extraordinary than being able to hear the mind and will of the Lord from the mouths of His chosen prophets and apostles from anywhere in the world?

Precisely!

[Stargazer]

I ask: What could be more extraordinary than being able to hear the mind and will of the Lord from the mouths of His chosen prophets and apostles from anywhere in the world?

I was totally blown away by the Priesthood session, let me tell you. At the moment I can't remember hardly anything about it, except that President Uchtdorf talked about airplanes (nothing new there!), but take it from me, all three members of the First Presidency speaking one after another in succession, with President Monson at the very end, was rather like the "finale" of a particularly good fireworks display. I absolutely have to watch that again. For me, Conference is over. Nothing could possibly top that.

Es war unbeschreiblich.

[Stargazer]

What exactly is your problem, other than struggling with the concept of parody? What exactly is your motivation with this strange personal attack?

It's not personal, William. I've noticed he does tend to get wrapped around the axle of righteousness, or perceived righteousness, sometimes, and can't let go.

Sorry, DavidB, just my honest observation, no insult intended.

[Grundelwalken]

Just a comment about Priesthood session. If Pres. Monson is faltering then he is doing a great job of hiding it. Seemed pretty sharp tonight. MW

[Nathair/|\]

Precisely!

I thought that might be your point.

[Law22]

Wouldn't be great if the revelation was that the young men and women were to serve in the military? Lowering the age that they can go on missions lowers even more the chance that they will choose to defend this country.

[Cobalt-70]

Soooooo....the obvious question is, why not make the age 18 for both boys and girls?

That the age for women has changed from 21 to 19 abandons the now-very-quaint rationale that for women, a mission was the backup plan if they weren't married yet by age 21. Now, it appears that the rationale is simply that female missionaries are less valued than male missionaries. That, and the fear that 18 year old women are apparently too hot for elders to handle. Still, it's a big step in the right direction.

[sethpayne]

DavidB,

I think the first part of this thread should be seen as an M. Night Shaymalan movie. Once you know the twist, in re-reading the original narrative William's intent seems clear -- at least to me. Credit where credit is due: William is quite clever. He had me sitting on the edge of my seat and once I realized William's true intent I felt quite silly.

Seth

[volgadon]

Now, it appears that the rationale is simply that female missionaries are less valued than male missionaries. That, and the fear that 18 year old women are apparently too hot for elders to handle. Still, it's a big step in the right direction.

Which is more than can be said for your post.

[DavidB]

What exactly is your problem, other than struggling with the concept of parody? What exactly is your motivation with this strange personal attack?

I have not personally attacked you, you have personally attacked me, twice now. Stargazer has personally attacked me.

If refutying claims is a personally attack then so much for defending anything.

[David T]

That the age for women has changed from 21 to 19 abandons the now-very-quaint rationale that for women, a mission was the backup plan if they weren't married yet by age 21. Now, it appears that the rationale is simply that female missionaries are less valued than male missionaries. That, and the fear that 18 year old women are apparently too hot for elders to handle. Still, it's a big step in the right direction.

Elder Holland alluded, in the press conference, that fraternization was the key reason for, at the very least, a 1-year age difference. When pressed by Peggy Fletcher Stack of the SLT, he acknowledged that the idea of 2-year missions for sisters was 'not off the table', but they are testing changes out one element at a time. In his words, "One miracle at a time." - I think the benefit of the doubt is worth granting here.

[jwhitlock]

In that case, can you identify it? Does it have to do with the changes in curriculum? There'll be a Church News story about that tomorrow.

This may have gotten lost in the shuffle; this was also a pretty significant announcement and an indication of how church approaches and procedures can and do change to meet the particular needs of people where they live. The youth curriculum change was pretty interesting.

[DBMormon]

My only struggle with this is the following..... On one hand we want to trumpet every change in the church as revelation.....

This one doesn't even seem to be described that way by the Church. In this thread and in others it was claimed a great revelation was coming

President Monson said this age 18 had been tried in other places with favorable results and implied that it seemed appropriate to allow this everywhere for that reason. It does not seem they want to imply that this was a revelation more so then a logical conclusion based on success and need.

So why the rumors of revelation???? why do we see every change as revelation... What did you eat for breakfast? why? was it revelation or was it a decision based on need and where you saw a positive value

When did you do your HT/VT last month. Why did you pick the day that you did? Was it revelation?

Not every advancement should be trumped as revelation. When we do that we minimize what a revelation is and demean it's meaning.

Divine Revelation = It is the making known of divine truth by communication with the heavens

This is simply a policy change. It seems a good one and I am grateful for it but I would not call it revelation based on how it was relayed

[Bikeemikey]

My only struggle with this is the following..... On one hand we want to trumpet every change in the church as revelation.....

This one doesn't even seem to be described that way by the Church. In this thread and in others it was claimed a great revelation was coming

President Monson said this age 18 had been tried in other places with favorable results and implied that it seemed appropriate to allow this everywhere for that reason. It does not seem they want to imply that this was a revelation more so then a logical conclusion based on success and need.

So why the rumors of revelation???? why do we see every change as revelation... What did you eat for breakfast? why? was it revelation or was it a decision based on need and where you saw a positive value

When did you do your HT/VT last month. Why did you pick the day that you did? Was it revelation?

Not every advancement should be trumped as revelation. When we do that we minimize what a revelation is and demean it's meaning.

Divine Revelation = It is the making known of divine truth by communication with the heavens

This is simply a policy change. It seems a good one and I am grateful for it but I would not call it revelation based on how it was relayed

I like your thoughts on this... It is curious that so many peoples response was so excited, mine included. Just speaks to the fundamental lack of change we have at the institutional level of the church.

Such a big change... hopefully no ones testimony was shaken.

[jwhitlock]

My only struggle with this is the following..... On one hand we want to trumpet every change in the church as revelation.....

This one doesn't even seem to be described that way by the Church. In this thread and in others it was claimed a great revelation was coming

President Monson said this age 18 had been tried in other places with favorable results and implied that it seemed appropriate to allow this everywhere for that reason. It does not seem they want to imply that this was a revelation more so then a logical conclusion based on success and need.

So why the rumors of revelation???? why do we see every change as revelation... What did you eat for breakfast? why? was it revelation or was it a decision based on need and where you saw a positive value

When did you do your HT/VT last month. Why did you pick the day that you did? Was it revelation?

Not every advancement should be trumped as revelation. When we do that we minimize what a revelation is and demean it's meaning.

Divine Revelation = It is the making known of divine truth by communication with the heavens

This is simply a policy change. It seems a good one and I am grateful for it but I would not call it revelation based on how it was relayed

Revelation is not only making known of truth, but also direction from God.

I find it highly unlikely that President Monson and others made this particular change on their own without consulting with the Lord on it. And I also doubt that they made the change without having the confirmation from Him that it was the right direction to take. That's the way the General Authorities of the Church do things when it comes to procedure or policy changes that they need to address.

Inspiration from the Holy Ghost IS revelation, and the leaders of the Church rely heavily on that guidance in the decisions they make - as we all should in our own lives. Hence, revelation was involved. It does not demean the concept of revelation to say it was involved in this particular decision making process; indeed, because of the impact of the policy change on one of the primary missions of the Church, I think that the Lord would be displeased were He not consulted before this decision was made.

[jwhitlock]

Just speaks to the fundamental lack of change we have at the institutional level of the church.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say with this. Is it a bad thing? Should major changes be an ongoing part of the Church institutional process? Or are we actually mature enough as a Church now that we are in the stage of just needing to make adjustments here and there as circumstances dictate?

I'm reminded of a phrase from one of my favorite hymns; "Change and decay in all around I see, oh Thou who changest not, abide with me." I personally take solace in the fact that we are in a period where the Church stands firm and major change is not needed - at least until rapidly deteriorating events right before the return of Christ mandate more significant responses.

[David T]

It's in line with the Church's current expressions of what it means by 'Revelation':

Most often, revelation unfolds as an ongoing, prayerful dialogue with God: A problem arises, its dimensions are studied out, a question is asked, and if we have sufficient faith, God leads us to answers, either partial or full. Though ultimately a spiritual experience, revelation also requires careful thought. God does not simply hand down information. He expects us to figure things out through prayerful searching and sound thinking.

The First Presidency (consisting of the president or prophet of the Church and his two counselors) and members of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles receive inspiration to guide the Church as a whole. Individuals are also inspired with revelation regarding how to conduct their lives and help serve others

Edited October 7, 2012 by David T

[jwhitlock]

I have not personally attacked you, you have personally attacked me, twice now. Stargazer has personally attacked me.

If refutying claims is a personally attack then so much for defending anything.

Your post #47 was a personal attack on Will, characterized by your use of the accusative "you" several times in condemning him.

[Deborah]

Divine Revelation = It is the making known of divine truth by communication with the heavens

Jwhitlock answered this quite well. I just want to add that D&C 8 is a pattern for how we should find answers and these verses are of particular importance:

2 Yea, behold, I will tell you in your mind and in your heart, by the Holy Ghost, which shall come upon you and which shall dwell in your heart.

3 Now, behold, this is the spirit of revelation; behold, this is the spirit by which Moses brought the children of Israel through the Red Sea on dry ground.

Section 9 continues with this instruction on how to receive revelation and includes these verses:

7 Behold, you have not understood; you have supposed that I would give it unto you, when you took no thought save it was to ask me.

8 But, behold, I say unto you, that you must study it out in your mind; then you must ask me if it be right, and if it is right I will cause that your bosom shall burn within you; therefore, you shall feel that it is right.

Edited October 7, 2012 by Deborah

[Tacenda]

I like your thoughts on this... It is curious that so many peoples response was so excited, mine included. Just speaks to the fundamental lack of change we have at the institutional level of the church.

Such a big change... hopefully no ones testimony was shaken.

Or lack of revelations from heaven. We are indeed hungry for that.

[Deborah]

For some reason people seem to have the mistaken idea that "revelation" from the prophet must be big, whatever that means. How many "big" revelations have there really been throughout the scriptures? Usually these are Dispensational revelations and everything after that are those things to help the saints of the day best implement the principles of salvation and purposes of the gospel message. Most prophets in the OT for example don't really give us anything new. They continually warn the people what will happen if they don't repent and keep the commandments but these are not "new" revelations, just carrying out the message that has been given many times since the beginning of time.

Having said that I think the age change is big and will have a profound effect on missionary work.