ERayR Posted September 23, 2012 Posted September 23, 2012 Without giving any credence to the obvious partisan nature of this discussion I am wondering if there is something unethical for Bro. Reid of Nevada to stand up in the Senate and accuse a fellow Mormon, Bro. Romney, of lying about his tax returns? Is this something that can be devisive in our church and if true something that be left to the authorities?If one is sure of their accusations it is probably OK. The trouble with your example is that Bro. Reid has problems himself with his veracity.
The Nehor Posted September 23, 2012 Posted September 23, 2012 Okay according to whom? God? The Brethren? The three Nephites? Peoples on the internets?
zerinus Posted September 23, 2012 Posted September 23, 2012 Harry Reid started by saying "The word is out...", but followed up with a declarative statement "Let him prove that he has paid taxes...because he hasn't."I am not reading into that the accusation that he hasn't paid taxes, but that he hasn't proved that he has. Two different statements entirely.
Zeta-Flux Posted September 23, 2012 Posted September 23, 2012 Well, unless we also want to accuse the company which released Romney's 20 year tax stats of lying, Romney has proven he has paid taxes every year for the last 20 years. Nothing to see here.
zerinus Posted September 23, 2012 Posted September 23, 2012 Well, unless we also want to accuse the company which released Romney's 20 year tax stats of lying, Romney has proven he has paid taxes every year for the last 20 years. Nothing to see here.I wouldn't know about that; but Harry Reid evidently doesn't think so. Also, bear in mind that he is a Democrat, while Romney is Republican. He has to come up with some criticism of Romney to avoid giving the impression that he is soft on Romney because he happens to be a fellow Mormon!
Bikeemikey Posted September 24, 2012 Posted September 24, 2012 Even King Noah only took 20%.Last I checked he wasn't trying to cover a national retirement and health care insurance system? He certianly wasn't trying to look out for the least well off or cover th cost of a strong military either.
The Nehor Posted September 24, 2012 Posted September 24, 2012 Last I checked he wasn't trying to cover a national retirement and health care insurance system? He certianly wasn't trying to look out for the least well off or cover th cost of a strong military either.Especially considering his military strategy was to take the army and run and hide as soon as an invasion was imminent.
Ron Beron Posted September 24, 2012 Author Posted September 24, 2012 Brother Reid didn't lie. He simply said, "The word is out ..." We don't know who put "the word ... out." (Really ... we don't.) Bro. Reid was simply passing along something he heard. (I'm not sure why we should give any credence to Bro. Reid's source, since there's no reason why anyone at Bain would know anything about Bro. Romney's personal tax returns (unless he likes to brag to his coworkers or partners, e.g., "Hey, I found some awesome tax shelters! They'll take your rate to zero ...")So he is only guilty of gossip then? We are commanded by commandment and council to not bear false witness and if we do have witness not to express to the whole world over the senate podium. If we have problem with any member it should be done directly to the bishop and certainly not to influence votes. 1
Ron Beron Posted September 24, 2012 Author Posted September 24, 2012 by authorities, do you mean the IRS?Sorry. To clarify I meant Church authorities. It is not that he is not forthcoming with the release of his taxes that concerns me, but the fact that another church member and a high councilman at that would engage in gossip and innuendo with ostensibly to gain a partisan vote.
TAO Posted September 24, 2012 Posted September 24, 2012 (edited) Last I checked he wasn't trying to cover a national retirement and health care insurance system? He certianly wasn't trying to look out for the least well off or cover th cost of a strong military either.Who says King Benjaimin wasn't trying to look out for the least well off? Ain't that what part of his long but beuatiful speech is about =). Edited September 24, 2012 by TAO 1
Calm Posted September 24, 2012 Posted September 24, 2012 Who says King Benjaimin wasn't trying to look out for the least well off? Ain't that what part of his long but beuatiful speech is about =).Bikemikey referenced King Noah, not Benjamin....big difference.
thesometimesaint Posted September 24, 2012 Posted September 24, 2012 ERayR:So you know what is on those tax returns? If not how can you be so sure there is any ammunition in there? Be careful what you are assuming.That is what Ann Romney said in an interview.http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0812/79757.htmlAnn Romney said in an interview airing Wednesday that her husband has no plans to release additional tax returns, saying “it’ll just give them more ammunition” and insisting that “there’s nothing we’re hiding.”“We have been very transparent to what’s legally required of us. But the more we release, the more we get attacked, the more we get questioned, the more we get pushed. And so we have done what’s legally required and there’s going to be no more, there’s going to be no more tax releases given,” she said in the interview by NBC News. “And there’s a reason for that, and that’s because of how, what happens as soon as we release anything.”Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0812/79757.html#ixzz27OBDZYwE
TAO Posted September 24, 2012 Posted September 24, 2012 Bikemikey referenced King Noah, not Benjamin....big difference. Oh... Hehe! Yep! Lol!
BCSpace Posted September 24, 2012 Posted September 24, 2012 (edited) saying “it’ll just give them more ammunition”Say rather it'll give them more fodder to divert attention from their candidate's dismal record. Edited September 24, 2012 by BCSpace
USU78 Posted September 24, 2012 Posted September 24, 2012 Storm Rider:I have lots of issues with Sen. Reid, but being outspoken isn't one of them. He's as milk toast as they come. He's need a backbone replacement for a long time.? Odd. I have found him to be kneejerk and rabid in his politics.
USU78 Posted September 24, 2012 Posted September 24, 2012 Storm Rider:That might be appealing if you make over $100,000 per year. However if you are in the middle class,or lower, which 4 months of the year are you not going to eat?Okay. We'll confiscate all of the property of the top 1% and kill them and their families.Problem?Then there'll be a new top 1% whose stuff we'll have to confiscate and whom we'll have to kill along with their families.Then there'll be yet another top 1% . . .The medieval catholics were right: Envy is one of the worst sins. Certainly in my top 7.
USU78 Posted September 24, 2012 Posted September 24, 2012 Last I checked he wasn't trying to cover a national retirement and health care insurance system? He certianly wasn't trying to look out for the least well off or cover th cost of a strong military either.Much more efficient to criminalize those who'd rather make their own choices in whom to share their largesse with.
thesometimesaint Posted September 24, 2012 Posted September 24, 2012 USU78:I don't envy the rich, I never have. All I ask is that they don't envy the last few pennies I have, and think they are entitled to.I long for Zion where there are neither rich nor poor, and we are all comfortably middle class.
USU78 Posted September 24, 2012 Posted September 24, 2012 I don't envy the rich, I never have. All I ask is that they don't envy the last few pennies I have, and think they are entitled to.Unless Congress grants them the right to take tax money from you, they'll never touch it. People get rich by buying low and selling high. You don't have to buy from them. And if you do, you got something back that you value just as much or more highly than the money you gave.The quoted line IS envy otherwise expressed. 2
cinepro Posted September 24, 2012 Posted September 24, 2012 I am not reading into that the accusation that he hasn't paid taxes, but that he hasn't proved that he has. Two different statements entirely.I see how it Reid could have been saying that, but it still strikes me as absurd. At the very least, if Romney hasn't paid the taxes he should, the IRS should become involved.If Reid is complaining that he thinks Romney has been honest in his accounting and legally hasn't had to pay taxes, how is that Romney's fault? Either way, it strikes me as a pretty weak argument (and I would be just as disappointed to see a Republican attack a Democrat on equally shaky grounds). 1
KevinG Posted September 24, 2012 Posted September 24, 2012 I would never question Brother Reeds worthiness to be a Saint. I do however wonder if we shouldn't automatically excommunicate career politicians like we do other embezzlers and predators. 2
thesometimesaint Posted September 24, 2012 Posted September 24, 2012 USU78:I already pay taxes at a higher rate than Mr. Romney. No. The modern day Robber Barons got rich by inheriting it and/or in betting other peoples money.
KevinG Posted September 24, 2012 Posted September 24, 2012 USU78:I already pay taxes at a higher rate than Mr. Romney. No. The modern day Robber Barons got rich by inheriting it and/or in betting other peoples money.Wow! You pay higher than a 23% rate! I wanna be in your tax bracket.
thesometimesaint Posted September 24, 2012 Posted September 24, 2012 KevinG:Romney by his own admission pays 14.1%
KevinG Posted September 24, 2012 Posted September 24, 2012 KevinG:Romney by his own admission pays 14.1%20 year effective federal tax rate of 20.20% with an additional 13.45% to charity. Here.
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