Mormonstories Podcast #369: Exploring Lds Temple Wedding Exclusion And Inclusion

[filovirus]

This is how our ceremony went. First we did our sealing in the temple. It was a wonderful experience. We both felt the spirit very strongly in the sealing room, moving me and my wife to tears. Nothing can detract from the experience we felt as we were able to understand the eternities in the sealing room.

Then we went and had our after marriage pictures on the temple grounds for probably an hour or so. Then we went to the local wardhouse for the ring ceremony. My wife's father was able to escort her down the isle were I was waiting, as a typical ceremony is done. We both had bridesmaids and groomsmen respectively. Then her bishop spoke for about ten minutes, explaining that we had already been married previously in the temple. He spent time explaining the importance of a temple marriage, as there were many people who were not members. Then he called us up, and we exchanged rings and a kiss. No vows. I then escorted her back out and the ceremony was concluded. We did not hold the wedding reception at the church, but a different location, so we were only there for the ring exchange.

In my opinion, this actually helped our nonmember friends understand more the importance of an eternal marriage, and her parents were able to take part in giving their daughter away. I don't know is this was considered a "simple" ring ceremony, but it definitely did not detract from the importance of being sealed in the temple for me or for my wife.

[Calm]

My wife's father was able to escort her down the isle were I was waiting, as a typical ceremony is done.

Was this in the chapel? Just curious.

I really like the idea of having a talk about the temple ceremony, whether it would be by the bishop or someone else.

Edited September 11, 2012 by calmoriah

[Darren10]

They mention on the podcast that it was in the D & C at one time that Joseph Smith said marriages should be a public affair. Later it was taken out of the D & C.

Did he say "marriages" or "sealings"? And isn't the fact that it was removed from the doctrine and covenants indicate that this is not Church doctrine?

[Tacenda]

Did he say "marriages" or "sealings"? And isn't the fact that it was removed from the doctrine and covenants indicate that this is not Church doctrine?

I believe it was marriage.

[filovirus]

Yes, it was in the chapel. I guess the one complaint we had was that people weren't allowed to take pictures.

[Calm]

Thank you for the info.

[Tacenda]

Thank you for the info.

My sister was married in our ward chapel back in the late 70's. And in the last 5 years I've been to one in the cultural hall. Do you think there is something saying they shouldn't be in the chapel now?

[Calm]

Definitely not for nontemple weddings. This is one of the approved uses of the chapel, though since pictures can't be taken, I would think most would prefer it in the cultural hall anyway....but then I've never been one who has associated much symbolic or spiritual power with our chapels and others may feel differently.

I am not the one making the judgment call on nontemple wedding associated ceremonies not actually weddings. I know of a few bishops in my experience who probably would have refused to do so, others that just might do it.

I do think anyone who claims that LDS are mindnumbed conforming robots should research the wide range of practices that are developing in the Church related to this subject.

Edited September 11, 2012 by calmoriah

[canard78]

The government over there has not deputized LDS to perform marriages, so the wedding takes place first and then the sealing. It has nothing to do with how the LDS leadership would structure things if they had a choice.

Hi, that's not quite correct. All weddings in the UK have to be done in a public place where anyone 'could' attend if they want to. It goes back to the 'right to object' principle. For obvious reasons an LDS temple couldn't be used as the location because only certain people can go in.

I'm British. I was married in an LDS church in the UK and then sealed later that day. I've also performed 2 weddings (as a branch president). An LDS member can be the 'registrar' if they take a short course with the local government office (the person who makes the legal document and submits it to the civil register). At my wedding it was done that way.

In the church/civil ceremony we say 'as long as we both shall live' - it's still legally ticking the box, but from and LDS perspective also covers the fact that we believe we'll live forever, so no finite commitment.

Overall I'm glad we have it this way. It meant that a lot of family on both our sides could support us as we embarked on a life-long commitment with all its implications. Wedding vows are as much to each other as they are to God - and it's this temporal life that's going to determine whether we have anything to look forward to as a couple in the next life. So I didn't feel it detracted in any way from a life-long (eternal life-long) promise and start of a journey.

I think it's a shame that in the states, those who would like to be able to make those promises in public, in front of all friends and family whether mormon or not, get stigmatised and marginalised.

[Calm]

Thanks for the info. I had assumed that the same reason for not allowing temple marriages by governments was across the board. Good to know.

I can really see the value in this reason. A marriage just isn't about the couple, but also about the community. I am really torn about how things should be done in order to give the proper place to all relationships involved.

I definitely don't think people should be stigmatised for choosing a nontemple wedding to share it with their family.

Edited September 15, 2012 by calmoriah

[Tacenda]

I procastinated and didn't get my temple recommend renewed in time to go to my nephew's temple ceremony this Thursday. For the first time I'm going to stand outside like my siblings who aren't active, have had to do with my other nephew and niece. I feel awful, it's a gut punch almost. I know it was my fault and the only reason I procrastinated was because of my testimony issues. But feel that alot of people suffer from those struggles and still go to the temple. So the article below spoke to me and the bolded part is something I wasn't aware of.

http://rationalfaiths.com/the-inclusivity-of-mormon-weddings-a-petition-for-change/

A quote from the article:

"I consider myself well-read in regards to Mormon thought, theology, and history. Yet, as embarrassed as I am to say, it was not until last year that I realized that the majority of the countries where our Church is established, the temple sealing is a separate ceremony from a civil wedding ceremony. This of course is different from us in the U.S., Canada and maybe two or more other countries, where the civil wedding ceremony and the temple sealing ceremony have been combined into one ceremony.

[Nasori Jack]

In the podcast they point out the same thing you do, that a "wedding" and a "sealing" are not the same thing.

What's more, the couple runs the risk, if something tragic happens before the year is up, of dying without getting sealed.

This is something that has weighed on my mind somewhat as I have been trying to study and understand such points; my personal apostasy being a couple of dacades ago, during which I did not get to go to the temple other than for baptisms for the dead.

Of course, if I want to return after years of debauchary to my "faith of my fathers" as the saying goes, I do so with full intent on gaining the Fullness of the Gospel.

If something is worth doing, it's worth doing right.

So as far as I understand the two methods and requisites for Celestial Glory are the blessing of the Melkezidek priesthood when going on a mission (something I never did) and marriage within the temple.

So, TBH, I feel a little hopeless. I haven't heard of a mid-thirties guy heading out like a 19yr old kid, leaving me, it seems, with only the option of such a marriage. But who knows if that will work out.

I seem to recall in my voracious studies of late something along the lines of being able to have a sort of second chance in the life beyond this one; however this is nothing I can confirm either way, doctrine being rather slippery. If I recall it was in Mormon Doctrine, that tome, that I came across something to this effect.

I have probably honestly broken about every commandment or doctrine to hedonistic levels beyond the call of duty, and I worry as well about the so-called "unpardonable sins" (pretty sure I've messed up with those, lacking murder that is, lol.

I would love some thoughts on this, even if it is a bit astray or tangential at times to the exact OP.

Thank you, Peace be with you.

[Tacenda]

This is something that has weighed on my mind somewhat as I have been trying to study and understand such points; my personal apostasy being a couple of dacades ago, during which I did not get to go to the temple other than for baptisms for the dead.

Of course, if I want to return after years of debauchary to my "faith of my fathers" as the saying goes, I do so with full intent on gaining the Fullness of the Gospel.

If something is worth doing, it's worth doing right.

So as far as I understand the two methods and requisites for Celestial Glory are the blessing of the Melkezidek priesthood when going on a mission (something I never did) and marriage within the temple.

So, TBH, I feel a little hopeless. I haven't heard of a mid-thirties guy heading out like a 19yr old kid, leaving me, it seems, with only the option of such a marriage. But who knows if that will work out.

I seem to recall in my voracious studies of late something along the lines of being able to have a sort of second chance in the life beyond this one; however this is nothing I can confirm either way, doctrine being rather slippery. If I recall it was in Mormon Doctrine, that tome, that I came across something to this effect.

I have probably honestly broken about every commandment or doctrine to hedonistic levels beyond the call of duty, and I worry as well about the so-called "unpardonable sins" (pretty sure I've messed up with those, lacking murder that is, lol.

I would love some thoughts on this, even if it is a bit astray or tangential at times to the exact OP.

Thank you, Peace be with you.

There are a few posters on the board that are on the same road as you, maybe they'll chime in. Wish I had more to offer by way of support.

[Storm Rider]

This is something that has weighed on my mind somewhat as I have been trying to study and understand such points; my personal apostasy being a couple of dacades ago, during which I did not get to go to the temple other than for baptisms for the dead.

Of course, if I want to return after years of debauchary to my "faith of my fathers" as the saying goes, I do so with full intent on gaining the Fullness of the Gospel.

If something is worth doing, it's worth doing right.

So as far as I understand the two methods and requisites for Celestial Glory are the blessing of the Melkezidek priesthood when going on a mission (something I never did) and marriage within the temple.

So, TBH, I feel a little hopeless. I haven't heard of a mid-thirties guy heading out like a 19yr old kid, leaving me, it seems, with only the option of such a marriage. But who knows if that will work out.

I seem to recall in my voracious studies of late something along the lines of being able to have a sort of second chance in the life beyond this one; however this is nothing I can confirm either way, doctrine being rather slippery. If I recall it was in Mormon Doctrine, that tome, that I came across something to this effect.

I have probably honestly broken about every commandment or doctrine to hedonistic levels beyond the call of duty, and I worry as well about the so-called "unpardonable sins" (pretty sure I've messed up with those, lacking murder that is, lol.

I would love some thoughts on this, even if it is a bit astray or tangential at times to the exact OP.

Thank you, Peace be with you.

No mission is required, receiving the priesthood is, and that can be done easily after a return to faith. The temple will come in short time. Repentance and the atonement cover all your sins and that blessing is due to our Savior. Be of good cheer and come to know our Lord better, you are one of his friends and beloved of God.

This is something that has weighed on my mind somewhat as I have been trying to study and understand such points; my personal apostasy being a couple of dacades ago, during which I did not get to go to the temple other than for baptisms for the dead.

Of course, if I want to return after years of debauchary to my "faith of my fathers" as the saying goes, I do so with full intent on gaining the Fullness of the Gospel.

If something is worth doing, it's worth doing right.

So as far as I understand the two methods and requisites for Celestial Glory are the blessing of the Melkezidek priesthood when going on a mission (something I never did) and marriage within the temple.

So, TBH, I feel a little hopeless. I haven't heard of a mid-thirties guy heading out like a 19yr old kid, leaving me, it seems, with only the option of such a marriage. But who knows if that will work out.

I seem to recall in my voracious studies of late something along the lines of being able to have a sort of second chance in the life beyond this one; however this is nothing I can confirm either way, doctrine being rather slippery. If I recall it was in Mormon Doctrine, that tome, that I came across something to this effect.

I have probably honestly broken about every commandment or doctrine to hedonistic levels beyond the call of duty, and I worry as well about the so-called "unpardonable sins" (pretty sure I've messed up with those, lacking murder that is, lol.

I would love some thoughts on this, even if it is a bit astray or tangential at times to the exact OP.

Thank you, Peace be with you.

No mission is required, receiving the priesthood is, and that can be done easily after a return to faith. The temple will come in short time. Repentance and the atonement cover all your sins and that blessing is due to our Savior. Be of good cheer and come to know our Lord better, you are one of his friends and beloved of God.

[Okrahomer]

This is something that has weighed on my mind somewhat as I have been trying to study and understand such points; ...So as far as I understand the two methods and requisites for Celestial Glory are the blessing of the Melkezidek priesthood when going on a mission (something I never did) and marriage within the temple. So, TBH, I feel a little hopeless...I have probably honestly broken about every commandment or doctrine to hedonistic levels beyond the call of duty, and I worry as well about the so-called "unpardonable sins" (pretty sure I've messed up with those, lacking murder that is, lol.

I would love some thoughts on this, even if it is a bit astray or tangential at times to the exact OP.

Thank you, Peace be with you.

The "Good News" of the Gospel gives each of us sinners--including you--a reason to be hopeful!

"Though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.” (Isa. 1:18.)

[Garden Girl]

Hello Nasori Jack...

After many years of being inactive, I returned to full faith in the Gospel... and I cling to such scriptures as Isaiah 1:18... as quoted above... "Come now, and let us reason together, saith the Lord: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool."

Of course, this is contingent upon our repentance...

So, this scripture is a true comfort to me... D&C 58:42 "Behold, he who has repented of his sins, the same is forgiven, and I, the Lord, remember them no more."

Think about it...

GG