Women And The Priesthood

[happy]

A lot of people feel two things will be happening soon. One is gay marriages in the temple or at least some abridged version. But another I see commonly floating alongside people's comments is Women and the Priesthood. A friend of mine challenged me on the doctrinal reasons behind women and the priesthood (certainly not just an LDS issue) and I have heard Catholic explanations (mostly focused on the fact Jesus is male and it is His priesthood), but what is ours? Do we have actual scripture or doctrinal references to a male priesthood? I am not sure how likely a change would take place. Even as recently as a few weeks ago, there were lessons in Priesthood on being the patriarch of the house.

As a side note, such a move didn't seem to help many of the other faiths. The Episcopal faith isn't doing so well, and our cousins over in the Community of Christ have been really a mess. So I do not see a PR based reason to make such a change?

[Saints Alive]

I think it is far more likely for Christ to make an account and post here than it is for either gay sealings or women to be ordained to the priesthood.

[Damien the Leper]

I think it is far more likely for Christ to make an account and post here than it is for either gay sealings or women to be ordained to the priesthood.

I don't know of any gay people, myself included, who are looking for a future where sealings for gay members is part of LDS practice. I have no desire to ever be married in an LDS temple. As far as female ordination, if it happens then it happens. There is a better shot of that happening than homosexual temple sealings.

Happy seems to be projecting some sort of agenda that doesn't appear to exist for the majority of gay LDS.

[happy]

I don't know of any gay people, myself included, who are looking for a future where sealings for gay members is part of LDS practice. I have no desire to ever be married in an LDS temple. As far as female ordination, if it happens then it happens. There is a better shot of that happening than homosexual temple sealings.

Happy seems to be projecting some sort of agenda that doesn't appear to exist for the majority of gay LDS.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/denmark/9317447/Gay-Danish-couples-win-right-to-marry-in-church.html

[Damien the Leper]

http://www.telegraph...-in-church.html

THE Church in Denmark is not the LDS church. This should be common knowledge by now. If the law in Denmark is applied to ALL denominations then the LDS church can simply close its temple doors. Problem solved.

[JeremyOrbe-Smith]

*hums an innocent tune* Edited August 9, 2012 by JeremyOrbe-Smith

[happy]

THE Church in Denmark is not the LDS church. This should be common knowledge by now. If the law in Denmark is applied to ALL denominations then the LDS church can simply close its temple doors. Problem solved.

Do I need to go dig up the article on the gay San Francisco bishop who admitted he would love to change the church to support gay marriages?

[CV75]

A lot of people feel two things will be happening soon. One is gay marriages in the temple or at least some abridged version. But another I see commonly floating alongside people's comments is Women and the Priesthood. A friend of mine challenged me on the doctrinal reasons behind women and the priesthood (certainly not just an LDS issue) and I have heard Catholic explanations (mostly focused on the fact Jesus is male and it is His priesthood), but what is ours? Do we have actual scripture or doctrinal references to a male priesthood? I am not sure how likely a change would take place. Even as recently as a few weeks ago, there were lessons in Priesthood on being the patriarch of the house.

As a side note, such a move didn't seem to help many of the other faiths. The Episcopal faith isn't doing so well, and our cousins over in the Community of Christ have been really a mess. So I do not see a PR based reason to make such a change?

There is a recent thread (actually more than one) about women and the priesthood--check the archives, it will save a LOT of time and then you can post some really good discussion points.

And then Jeremy can do more than just whistle!

[DavidB]

A lot of people feel two things will be happening soon. One is gay marriages in the temple or at least some abridged version. But another I see commonly floating alongside people's comments is Women and the Priesthood.

Maybe it is a regional thing, but "a lot of people" around where I live do not believe either will happen.

A friend of mine challenged me on the doctrinal reasons behind women and the priesthood (certainly not just an LDS issue) and I have heard Catholic explanations (mostly focused on the fact Jesus is male and it is His priesthood), but what is ours? Do we have actual scripture or doctrinal references to a male priesthood?

Yes, there is, it is called Official Declaration 2.

To Whom It May Concern:

On 30 September 1978, at the 148th Semiannual General Conference of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, the following was presented by President N. Eldon Tanner, First Counselor in the First Presidency of the Church:

In early June of this year, the First Presidency announced that a revelation had been received by President Spencer W. Kimball extending priesthood and temple blessings to all worthy male members of the Church. President Kimball has asked that I advise the conference that after he had received this revelation, which came to him after extended meditation and prayer in the sacred rooms of the holy temple, he presented it to his counselors, who accepted it and approved it. It was then presented to the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, who unanimously approved it, and was subsequently presented to all other General Authorities, who likewise approved it unanimously.

President Kimball has asked that I now read this letter:

June 8, 1978

To all general and local priesthood officers of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints throughout the world:

Dear Brethren:

As we have witnessed the expansion of the work of the Lord over the earth, we have been grateful that people of many nations have responded to the message of the restored gospel, and have joined the Church in ever-increasing numbers. This, in turn, has inspired us with a desire to extend to every worthy member of the Church all of the privileges and blessings which the gospel affords.

Aware of the promises made by the prophets and presidents of the Church who have preceded us that at some time, in God’s eternal plan, all of our brethren who are worthy may receive the priesthood, and witnessing the faithfulness of those from whom the priesthood has been withheld, we have pleaded long and earnestly in behalf of these, our faithful brethren, spending many hours in the Upper Room of the Temple supplicating the Lord for divine guidance.

He has heard our prayers, and by revelation has confirmed that the long-promised day has come when every faithful, worthy man in the Church may receive the holy priesthood, with power to exercise its divine authority, and enjoy with his loved ones every blessing that flows therefrom, including the blessings of the temple. Accordingly, all worthy male members of the Church may be ordained to the priesthood without regard for race or color. Priesthood leaders are instructed to follow the policy of carefully interviewing all candidates for ordination to either the Aaronic or the Melchizedek Priesthood to insure that they meet the established standards for worthiness.

We declare with soberness that the Lord has now made known his will for the blessing of all his children throughout the earth who will hearken to the voice of his authorized servants, and prepare themselves to receive every blessing of the gospel.

Sincerely yours,

Spencer W. Kimball

N. Eldon Tanner

Marion G. Romney

The First Presidency

Recognizing Spencer W. Kimball as the prophet, seer, and revelator, and president of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, it is proposed that we as a constituent assembly accept this revelation as the word and will of the Lord. All in favor please signify by raising your right hand. Any opposed by the same sign.

The vote to sustain the foregoing motion was unanimous in the affirmative.

Salt Lake City, Utah, September 30, 1978.

[rodheadlee]

Do I need to go dig up the article on the gay San Francisco bishop who admitted he would love to change the church to support gay marriages?

Of course, it's their (LGBT) agenda to force us to do that which is sin in God's eye,. to force us to marry ssm couples in the Temple. There will come a time when all or most of the temples are closed for this reason. I've already had my own personal revelation regarding this. I feel a great need to hurry and get as much Temple work done as possible before this happens. .Not all LGBT people have this agenda but many do. I admire Valentinus for the war he wages wiith himself and the stance he has taken. i wish I were so valiant in my struggles.

Edited August 10, 2012 by rodheadlee

[Damien the Leper]

Do I need to go dig up the article on the gay San Francisco bishop who admitted he would love to change the church to support gay marriages?

It would he a straw man to cite that bishop as representative of a much larger population. Not all feel as he does. It would do you well to remember that.

Everyone get back on topic. This thread is not about same sex marriage. Derailers will be removed.

Edited August 10, 2012 by Valentinus

[Robert F. Smith]

A lot of people feel two things will be happening soon. One is gay marriages in the temple or at least some abridged version. But another I see commonly floating alongside people's comments is Women and the Priesthood. A friend of mine challenged me on the doctrinal reasons behind women and the priesthood (certainly not just an LDS issue) and I have heard Catholic explanations (mostly focused on the fact Jesus is male and it is His priesthood), but what is ours? Do we have actual scripture or doctrinal references to a male priesthood? I am not sure how likely a change would take place. Even as recently as a few weeks ago, there were lessons in Priesthood on being the patriarch of the house.

As a side note, such a move didn't seem to help many of the other faiths. The Episcopal faith isn't doing so well, and our cousins over in the Community of Christ have been really a mess. So I do not see a PR based reason to make such a change?

Two friends of mine (a married couple with children) in Independence, Missouri, hold priesthood in the Community of Christ (RLDS Church) and I have no objection to that since it is not the true Church anyhow. Same applies to the Danish State Church, the Church of England, etc. They all have the right to allow women to hold the Priesthood. Of course in Judaism the issue is somewhat different, since priesthood is lineal, father to son. However, outside of Orthodox Judaism, there are female rabbis. So this does represent a trend of some kind. Such a trend is unlikely within Mormonism however.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

I think it is far more likely for Christ to make an account and post here than it is for either gay sealings or women to be ordained to the priesthood.

Some women are...I 'll say no more.

[KevinG]

I think it would be a great handicap to families if fathers felt they could place their priesthood responsibilities on women's shoulders.

[Damien the Leper]

I admire Valentinus for the war he wages wiith himself and the stance he has taken. i wish I were so valiant in my struggles.

I'm not sure how to take this nor how I should take this...can you enlighten me? This isn't bait for an argument but a call for cflarification.

[Damien the Leper]

Everyone get back on topic. This thread is not about same sex marriage. Derailers will be removed.

Please forgive me.

[Damien the Leper]

"By virtue of the temple ceremony" isn't even the best evidence of female ordination.

[mapman]

If I had to guess, the Relief Society will eventually become more of a parallel to the priesthood organization for the men, but that's just speculation based on some statements of Joseph Smith. People can debate about it all they want, but really what matters is if the president of the church receives revelation about it or not.

[Damien the Leper]

Two friends of mine (a married couple with children) in Independence, Missouri, hold priesthood in the Community of Christ (RLDS Church) and I have no objection to that since it is not the true Church (according to the LDS church and LDS church members) anyhow. Same applies to the Danish State Church, the Church of England, etc. They all have the right to allow women to hold the Priesthood. Of course in Judaism the issue is somewhat different, since priesthood is lineal, father to son. However, outside of Orthodox Judaism, there are female rabbis. So this does represent a trend of some kind. Such a trend is unlikely within Mormonism however.

Just some clarification so as to avoid any theological misunderstandings.

[Michael Sanders]

Sending out the sisters on missions already places you on the slippery slope in my opinion - it won't happen overnight but by degrees. In addition, I doubt the LDS community is immune to the cultural impact of feminism and the changing of gender roles over the last 50 years. I visited the LDS visitors center in Kirtland a year or so ago and had this very conversation with the LDS priesthood man in charge - he was utterly confident that what happened in the RLDS church could never befall the LDS (and I certainly hope not) - but you may already have some philisophical seeds in place that may grow into some strange plants one day.

Mike Sanders

Book of Mormon Believer

Independence, MO

[Avatar4321]

And who are a lot of people? I dont know a single one of them.

[CASteinman]

A lot of people feel two things will be happening soon. One is gay marriages in the temple or at least some abridged version.

That will not happen.

[CASteinman]

Do I need to go dig up the article on the gay San Francisco bishop who admitted he would love to change the church to support gay marriages?

I would like you to dig that up.

[ERayR]

Do I need to go dig up the article on the gay San Francisco bishop who admitted he would love to change the church to support gay marriages?

A lot of people would like to see a lot of different things. Without looking too hard I bet you could find a bishop who would like Sundays off.

[CASteinman]

Gay marriage in the temple would horrify me. Women being ordained to positions in the priesthood -- not so much. But I don't think it will happen. I don't want it to happen. But, since I think that there are ways that they already function in the priesthood, this is not horrifying to me. It would not actually -- in my mind -- represent as huge a change as it would appear. But gay marriage would require repudiation of multiple important doctrines.