Future Of The Church

[ksfisher]

This is what does bother me a bit. Very structure doctrine seems to be downplayed and eventually called "not really doctrine". That would be what mainstreaming is.

What are some examples of doctrines you feel the church is moving away from?

[swfarnsworth]

The teaching of the doctrine of exaltation seems to be alive and well in the temple. As you say, details of this doctrine may not receive the same emphasis outside of the temple. This may be because some of those details (such as every priesthood holder getting his own planet with X number of perpetually pregnant wives) may not be all that doctrinal.

I did a presentation on Mormonism a few months ago to an audience that had just finished a course on world religions, I fear that I left them with the impression that us "getting our own planets" is doctrinal when I tried to explain the "as God is, man may be" couplet. Whoever it was that coined the getting-our-own-planet idea clearly missed the point of eternal progression, and I suspect that they would be shocked if I suggested that infants will, under normal circumstances, progress to the point of being able to walk, talk, and to create their own infants. Furthermore, I suppose that they would be equally shocked if I suggested thereafter that all infants are the creations of those who were once infants themselves.

[tyler90az]

I'm sure some (especially those outside the Church) would contend that the details surrounding exaltation are receiving less and less emphasis, but they appear alive and well to me.

As for the Church becoming mainstream, I read an essay on the key to the Church's success from a sociological perspective (which I will try to find if anyone is interested). It said that an important factor was retaining a medium degree of tension with the rest of society, not so much as to require a convert to adopt an entirely new way of life and be alienated from the rest of the world, but enough so that one feels like they are actually part of a group with distinction. The fact that we take our standards so seriously accomplishes this.

If the world gets worse morally more will flock to the church for salvation.

[Damien the Leper]

I have been a member of the church for nearly 38 years following my conversion at age 14. During that time there has certainly been a "dumbing down", with some doctrines just not talked about anymore.

Does this concern me? Yes it does.

I am worried that the RLDS church we see today will be the LDS church of 50 years from now.

Come on now, Alan. Community of Christ isn't that bad. They are a wonderful church.

[Damien the Leper]

Becoming "mainstream" would torpedo any success we have, plus betray everything the Church has stood for in its history. Today in America "mainstream" protestants are about 10% of the population, with most of the rest being evangelical protestants or catholics. Mainstream protestantism has basically been destroyed as a force throughout the world and is margtinalized and ineffective.

The Emergent Church movement is a good example of this...just ask Brian McLaren.

[Cobalt-70]

I don't think that ejecting its unique doctrines would increase LDS Church membership. Rather, I think the opposite would occur. The LDS Church does not really compete with "respectable" Christian denominations in any substantial way. Our real competitors are the Jehovah's Witnesses and the Seventh Day Adventists, who are both seriously kicking our buttocks in terms of proselytizing. And neither of them have really made any effort to conform to mainstream Christianity. Playing the "we're Christian too" game doesn't work.

I do, however, think that the LDS Church should do all it can to shed its image of being a cult. But that's easy. All the church needs to do is be completely honest and transparent. Open its finances to the world. Be honest about its doctrines, its history, and about the limitations of its leadership. Root out all examples of manipulation and unrighteous dominion. I think a new policy of openness would do far more for the church's reputation than any PR campaign.

[Tacenda]

I don't think that ejecting its unique doctrines would increase LDS Church membership. Rather, I think the opposite would occur. The LDS Church does not really compete with "respectable" Christian denominations in any substantial way. Our real competitors are the Jehovah's Witnesses and the Seventh Day Adventists, who are both seriously kicking our buttocks in terms of proselytizing. And neither of them have really made any effort to conform to mainstream Christianity. Playing the "we're Christian too" game doesn't work.

I do, however, think that the LDS Church should do all it can to shed its image of being a cult. But that's easy. All the church needs to do is be completely honest and transparent. Open its finances to the world. Be honest about its doctrines, its history, and about the limitations of its leadership. Root out all examples of manipulation and unrighteous dominion. I think a new policy of openness would do far more for the church's reputation than any PR campaign.

2 thumbs up!

[Damien the Leper]

I don't think that ejecting its unique doctrines would increase LDS Church membership. Rather, I think the opposite would occur. The LDS Church does not really compete with "respectable" Christian denominations in any substantial way. Our real competitors are the Jehovah's Witnesses and the Seventh Day Adventists, who are both seriously kicking our buttocks in terms of proselytizing. And neither of them have really made any effort to conform to mainstream Christianity. Playing the "we're Christian too" game doesn't work.

I do, however, think that the LDS Church should do all it can to shed its image of being a cult. But that's easy. All the church needs to do is be completely honest and transparent. Open its finances to the world. Be honest about its doctrines, its history, and about the limitations of its leadership. Root out all examples of manipulation and unrighteous dominion. I think a new policy of openness would do far more for the church's reputation than any PR campaign.

I ran out of rep points to give for the day. Sorry.

[Buzzard]

Come on now, Alan. Community of Christ isn't that bad. They are a wonderful church.

They may be, but it's hard to argue that they are anything different than a socially liberal mainstream Protestant denomination, complete with declining membership.

[swfarnsworth]

I do, however, think that the LDS Church should do all it can to shed its image of being a cult. But that's easy. All the church needs to do is be completely honest and transparent. Open its finances to the world. Be honest about its doctrines, its history, and about the limitations of its leadership. Root out all examples of manipulation and unrighteous dominion. I think a new policy of openness would do far more for the church's reputation than any PR campaign.

Regarding making its financial records public, does anyone know why the Church doesn't do that?

[swfarnsworth]

They may be, but it's hard to argue that they are anything different than a socially liberal mainstream Protestant denomination, complete with declining membership.

I admire them for the degree to which they have held to some of the restored truth without having real priesthood authority in their Church. However, during a discussion I had with a kind individual who described himself as a seventy in the CoC (I'm not sure if that's the same as being a member of the Quorum of the Seventy for us), the seventy stated that they do not believe in the corporeal nature of God. From this, I assume (and therefore may be incorrect) that they do not accept what appears as D&C 130 in our version of the text, which is a shame, as it includes three scripture mastery verses in rapid succession. The King Follett Sermon, I also assume, would have to be thrown out as well.

[DBMormon]

Do you all feel the Church is truly mainstreaming?

I think less time is spen speculating and more time talking about the gospel and what we know.

Will it become increasingly more standard protestant, ejecting the doctrines that made it is interesting and unique?

No, It is ejecting the statements that were speculation and not doctrine. It will not reject doctrine, that would be a mistake. Policies and Programs change, we learn from experience that some things said or taught by a person here or there are untrue and not doctrinal.... those things are cast aside

Is the FARMS/Maxwell Institute a sign the Church wants to become a generic Christian faith?

I think the church would prefer to not be seen as a cult but would also prefer to hang onto it's uniqueness

I would find it sad if the critics are finally convincing the Church it needs to ditch all of its unique doctrines in order to become more acceptable and increase its membership.

I would find it sad if we stopped wanting revelation and the changes that come from it.

[Cicero]

Regarding making its financial records public, does anyone know why the Church doesn't do that?

It has been discussed here before. Essentially the leadership of the Church believes that they have the mantle to deal with financial matters as they see fit. We sustain them as members, and so they do not feel it necessary to allow themselves to be second-guessed over every expenditure.

I disagree that releasing financial information would be a net positive for the Church (especially in the short-term). Critics would pore over it and to come up with examples they feel would cast the Church in a negative light (.e.g, does President Monson really need to spend $xxxx on a car, does so and so apostle really need $xxxx per year, etc.). Just look at all the flak the Church is taking over the mall.

[KevinG]

This is what does bother me a bit. Very structure doctrine seems to be downplayed and eventually called "not really doctrine". That would be what mainstreaming is.

I don't find the doctrines being downplayed as much as critical parodies and misrepresentations of those doctrines being corrected.

[cwald]

Regarding making its financial records public, does anyone know why the Church doesn't do that?

It is none of your business how the church spends ITS tithing money. Back me up Wade.

[selek1]

Do you all feel the Church is truly mainstreaming?

No. We ARE, however, becoming proactive in combatting anti-Mormon stereotypes.

Will it become increasingly more standard protestant, ejecting the doctrines that made it is interesting and unique?

No- and I would be interested in a list of what doctrines you believe the Church HAS ejected- and your reasons supporting that belief .

Is the FARMS/Maxwell Institute a sign the Church wants to become a generic Christian faith?

No- it's a sign that BYU has become a standard-issue, reality-sheltered academic fiefdon.

I would find it sad if the critics are finally convincing the Church it needs to ditch all of its unique doctrines in order to become more acceptable and increase its membership.

As would I- but I see no evidence supporting such a scenario.

[Sky]

The Church will continue to carry out its four-fold mission:

• Proclaim the gospel;
  
• Perfect the Saints;
  
• Redeem the dead; and
  
• Care for the poor and needy.
  

We will also continue to see an emphasis on Jesus Christ as the center of our faith.

[selek1]

It is none of your business how the church spends ITS tithing money. Back me up Wade.

In point of fact it IS none of your business.

More to the point, it is a deliberate attempt to derail the thread.

Yes, I know it was the notoriously "mainstream" Cobalt-70 who started the derail, but you might've avoided snapping at the bait like a starving big mouth bass.

[TAO]

Do you all feel the Church is truly mainstreaming?

Partially yeah. It's mainstreaming in the sense it is truly trying to appeal to as many people as possible.

Will it become increasingly more standard protestant, ejecting the doctrines that made it is interesting and unique?

Nope.

Is the FARMS/Maxwell Institute a sign the Church wants to become a generic Christian faith?

.

Nope. And I don't think that FARMS/Maxwell Institute corresponds to the church either, tbh.

I would find it sad if the critics are finally convincing the Church it needs to ditch all of its unique doctrines in order to become more acceptable and increase its membership.

So would I. Lucky it isn't happening.

[Maidservant]

"We can and in due time certainly will influence all of humanity. It will be known who we are and why we are. It might seem hopeless; it is monumentally difficult; but it is not only possible but certain that we will win the battle against Satan." Boyd K. Packer, April 2012 Conference.

from this:

<a href="http://<a%20href="https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2010/04/the-power-of-the-priesthood?lang=eng&query=k.+(name%3a"Boyd+K.+Packer">https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2010/04/the-power-of-the-priesthood?lang=eng&query=k.+(name%3a"Boyd+K.+Packer")">

This one also might be helpful to the question:

<a href="http://<a%20href="https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2011/04/guided-by-the-holy-spirit?lang=eng&query=k.+(name%3a"Boyd+K.+Packer">https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2011/04/guided-by-the-holy-spirit?lang=eng&query=k.+(name%3a"Boyd+K.+Packer")">

I should also remind us all the President Hinckley was completely positive about the future of the church and the world.

Edited August 4, 2012 by Maidservant

[Deborah]

I believe one reason the church is getting back to basics is because too many members have lost track of what the gospel is really about. Will we become mainstream? Never. Will we become better understood? Hopefully.

Do I think we will see more of a sifting? Most definitely and it is going on now, much like the time of Kirtland where the faithful saints who would need to face the ordeal ahead remained while the weak were sifted out.

[BCSpace]

Do you all feel the Church is truly mainstreaming? Will it become increasingly more standard protestant, ejecting the doctrines that made it is interesting and unique?

The Church has not ejected or rejected any significant doctrines so far (and probably no insignificant ones either). It still retains the doctrine of plural marriage and doesn't apologize for it. It still retains the doctrine of the priesthood ban (it's Divine origin) and does not apologize for it either:

Ever since biblical times, the Lord has designated through His prophets who could receive the priesthood and other blessings of the gospel.

http://www.lds.org/topics/priesthood-ordination-before-1978?lang=eng

For both these cases, we are merely in a different phase as opposed to the doctrine having actually changed.

[Carborendum]

There are slight changes happening in the Church mainly because the members themselves are no longer willing to show the same level of faithfulness as in previous years and generations.

We are gaining more acceptance as people talk about things openly and mainstream Christians get to know more Mormons.

But we are also gaining acceptance because mainstream itself is moving towards us:

Focus on the Family.

The Purpose Driven Live.

Eternal Families.

Many even accept the separateness of the Trinity to the point it resembles our doctrine of the Godhead.

Evangelicals are asking their teens to take a vow of celibacy until marriage. Why this is considered a change I'm not sure. But they sure seem to be celebrating it.

Many pastors are preaching the evils of alcohol and tobacco. Some even ask their congregants to take a vow of temperance, etc.

[Maidservant]

Above post: April 2010 conference, not 2012

[Maidservant]

From President Monson April 2012 Conference

"From a small beginning 182 years ago, our presence is now felt throughout the world. This great cause in which we are engaged will continue to go forth, changing lives as it does so. No cause, no force in the entire world can stop the work of God. Despite what comes, this great cause will go forward . . . There is much that is difficult and challenging in the world today, my brothers and sisters, but there is also much that is good and uplifting."