Why Faith?

[Monster]

I am wondering why faith is such a needed component of the plan of happiness? What is it about exhibiting faith that makes us better as a person or people? Why should faith be valued over knowledge in Christianity? If I believe in the unseen then should I not give just as much respect to those who believe in only things that are perceptible with their senses? How can we justify faith as being a more accurate indicator of truth than some other means?

It seems when you break it down faith is a component of belief for the sake of believing, but it does not provide any tangible benefit, other than to believe in the unseen. It seems God could just as easy set up a plan where all things of worth were obtainable through more direct means. We would still have choice so agency is intact. Does making the choice so much harder somehow make it more correct?

[bluebell]

Faith in Christ is really just trust in Christ.

Can someone be saved by Christ's grace but not trust Him? Can someone become like Christ but not trust Him? Can someone become a 'new creature' and leave the 'natural man' behind but not trust in the Being who is going to make that transition possible? Can someone be humble, submissive, and patient but not trust the Being they are humbling themselves before, submitting themselves to, and trying to become one with?

They are interesting questions to think about and seem to teach more about why faith in God is so important to us here.

[Kenngo1969]

According to Moroni, faith, hope, and charity are inextricably linked. See Moroni 7:40-44.

[halconero]

Funny, I was pondering this same thing about two days ago.

My conclusion is that faith is (as with most things given by God) for us rather than Deity. It builds trust and confidence in self and in Heavenly Father.

2 Examples: In my mission I was the medium through which God worked miracles on multiple occasions. I will not go into details but one was promising a couple who had been investigating the church for 5 years that, despite what appeared to be an insurmountable obstacle, that they would be baptized in week. The second was giving a blessing of healing to someone incredibly ill and seeing them recover instantly. Both required an immense amount of faith on my part. Afterwards I found that I was strengthened in all aspects of my spiritual life and in my personal relationship. I know that I would not have experienced that growth were I simply to "know" the end from the beginning.

It is one reason why Satan's plan could never work. In safety and security there is no growth. There is no growth in a comfort zone and there is no comfort in a growing zone.

We, as sinners, are slipping from a spiritual cliff and Jesus Christ offers us his hand. There is no time to question whether or not He is who he says he is if we want to be rescued.

[WalkerW]

I am wondering why faith is such a needed component of the plan of happiness? What is it about exhibiting faith that makes us better as a person or people? Why should faith be valued over knowledge in Christianity? If I believe in the unseen then should I not give just as much respect to those who believe in only things that are perceptible with their senses? How can we justify faith as being a more accurate indicator of truth than some other means?

It seems when you break it down faith is a component of belief for the sake of believing, but it does not provide any tangible benefit, other than to believe in the unseen. It seems God could just as easy set up a plan where all things of worth were obtainable through more direct means. We would still have choice so agency is intact. Does making the choice so much harder somehow make it more correct?

'Faith' had to do with loyalty to God/Christ. Academic and former nun Karen Armstrong provides the historical development of the concept 'faith':

The word translated as "faith" in the New Testament is the Greek pistis (verbal form: pisteuo), which means "trust; loyalty; engagement; commitment." ...[Jesus] was asking for commitment. He wanted disciples who would engage with his mission, give all they had to the poor, feed the hungry, refuse to be hampered by family ties, abandon their pride, lay aside their self-importance and sense of entitlement, live like the birds of the air and the lilies of the field, and trust in the God who was their father...When the New Testament was translated from Greek into Latin by Saint Jerome (c. 342-420), pistis became fides ("loyalty"). Fides has no verbal form, so for pisteuo Jerome used the Latin verb credo, a word that derived from cor do, "I give my heart." He did not think of using opinor ("I hold an opinion"). When the Bible was translated into English, credo and pisteuo became "I believe" in the King James version (1611). But the word "belief" has since changed its meaning. In Middle English, bileven meant "to prize; to value; to hold dear." It was related to the German belieben ("to love"), liebe ("beloved"), and the Latin libido. So "belief" originally meant "loyalty to a person to whom one is bound in promise or duty." When Chaucer's knight begged his patron to "accepte my bileve," he meant "accept my fealty, my loyalty." In Shakespeare's All's Well That Ends Well, which was probably written around 1603, shortly before the publication of the King James Bible, the young nobleman Bertram is urged to "believe not thy disdain": he must not entertain his contempt for lowborn Helena and allow it to take deep root in his heart. During the late seventeenth century, however, as our concept of knowledge became more theoretical, the word "belief" started to be used to describe an intellectual assent to a hypothetical-and often dubious-proposition. Scientists and philosophers were the first to use it in this sense, but in religious contexts the Latin credere and the English "belief" both retained their original connotations well into the nineteenth century.[1]

In other words,

We began [in the 16th-17th centuries] to understand concepts such as faith, revelation, myth, mystery, and dogma in a way that would have been very surprising to our ancestors. In particular, the meaning of the word "belief" changed, so that a credulous acceptance of creedal doctrines became the prerequisite of faith, so much so that today we often speak of religious people as "believers," as though accepting orthodox dogma "on faith" were their most important activity.[2]

Placing the term within the context of the Greco-Roman world, New Testament scholar David DeSilva explains,

Faith (Lat. fides; Gk pistis) is a term also very much at home in patron-client and friendship relations...In one sense, faith meant “dependability.” The patron needed to prove reliable in providing the assistance he or she promised to grant. The client needed to “keep faith” as well, in the sense of showing loyalty or commitment to the patron and to his or her obligations of gratitude. A second meaning in the more familiar sense is “trust”: the client had to trust the goodwill and ability of the patron...while the benefactor would also have to trust the recipients to act nobly and make a grateful response.[3]

In his commentary on the epistle to the Hebrews, DeSilva touches on Hebrews 11:1: "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen":

In philosophical language [the Greek hupostasis] can signify the “substance” or “underlying essence” of something...The same term, however, carries the everyday legal or business connotation of “title deed” or “guarantee,” attested by numerous papyri as well as classical texts...Given this immediate context, ['substance'] should be heard in the sense of title deed in 11:1, linking the discussion of faith more closely with 10:32-36 and the Christians’ loss of property...In this reading, ['faith'] in Hebrews is being understood very much within the context of patronage or friendship. After a client receives the patron’s promise that a certain benefaction will be given to him or her..."trust" is all the client has. If the patron is honorable and reliable, however, having “trust” is a good as having the promised item itself. Conversely, showing “distrust” toward the patron means letting go of the grasp on the promised item not only psychologically (because distrust produces anxiety) but in reality (as “distrust” manifested itself in “disobedience,” which caused the wilderness generation to lose their possession of the promised land; 3:7-19).[4]

1. Karen Armstrong, The Case for God (Knopf, 2009), pgs. 87-88.

2. Armstrong, 2009, xv.

3. David A. DeSilva, Honor, Patronage, Kinship & Purity: Unlocking New Testament Culture (InterVarsity Press, 2000), 115.

4. DeSilva, Perseverance in Gratitude: A Socio-Rhetorical Commentary on the Epistle ‘to the Hebrews’ (Eerdmans, 2000), 383-384.

[CV75]

I am wondering why faith is such a needed component of the plan of happiness? What is it about exhibiting faith that makes us better as a person or people? Why should faith be valued over knowledge in Christianity? If I believe in the unseen then should I not give just as much respect to those who believe in only things that are perceptible with their senses? How can we justify faith as being a more accurate indicator of truth than some other means?

It seems when you break it down faith is a component of belief for the sake of believing, but it does not provide any tangible benefit, other than to believe in the unseen. It seems God could just as easy set up a plan where all things of worth were obtainable through more direct means. We would still have choice so agency is intact. Does making the choice so much harder somehow make it more correct?

Because in order to experience happiness there has to be opposition in all things. Isn’t it interesting that faith, in opposition to knowledge, leads to new knowledge, and knowledge, in opposition to faith, leads to new faith? Opposition need not always be a reflection of good versus evil.

Truth is knowledge of things as they are, and as they were, and as they are to come. Faith is a spiritual phenomenon that can be defined as an accurate hope (expectation, assurance, etc.) of such things.

[coolrok7]

Faith is based on knowledge. Faith is the evidence of things hoped for but not seen.

We all for the most part have not seen Jesus except through faith. But there were those who were with Him and left us the Word of God, the knowledge of what our faith is based uopn.

Jesus is called the Word of God and it is in Him that I trust for salvation as there is no other name given on earth to save us but there are other who are claimed to teach the same things He did but in the end don't. These are identified by Jesus as false prophets and teachers and gave warning to watch out for.

It is still in our day that these warnings apply:

Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. (Matthew 7:15-20)

Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. . . .They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them. We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error. (1 John 4:1, 5-6)

The topic is faith not false prophets.

[rameumptom]

Faith in Christ is the first principle. Without it, we would not seek to become better. We would see no reason to repent nor recognize our sins and weaknesses. We would not see the need to change our lives. We would not have hope that things can get better here and in the next life. Heck, we would not have faith in a next life! Faith is an action verb, motivating us to change and rise above the world. It leads us to charity and good works. Without faith, we cannot please God, nor can we access the atoning power of Christ's salvation. Faith leads to repentance, leads to forgiveness and sinlessness, leads to ordinances/covenants, leads to a Restoring back into the presence of the Godhead.

[CV75]

I am wondering

Updated after having some time to write a full response:

I am wondering why faith is such a needed component of the plan of happiness? Because in order to experience happiness there has to be opposition in all things. Isn’t it interesting that faith, in opposition to knowledge, leads to new knowledge, and knowledge, in opposition to faith, leads to new faith? Opposition need not always be a reflection of good versus evil.

What is it about exhibiting faith that makes us better as a person or people? Because exhibiting faith is taking action in righteousness. It blesses oneself and others.

Why should faith be valued over knowledge in Christianity? I don’t know if it is. It may be said to be more valued only because it leads to more knowledge, which is valued. One’s eternal progress is definitely more valued than his stasis (damnation).

If I believe in the unseen then should I not give just as much respect to those who believe in only things that are perceptible with their senses? Yes, in that you should love everyone.

How can we justify faith as being a more accurate indicator of truth than some other means? I’m not sure I understand this question. How have those that so justify it answered this before? Faith is an assurance of truth, and truth is correct knowledge, so I would say that a lack of assurance of truth is a less accurate indicator of an assurance of truth--sort of the difference between a well-informed, correct hypothesis and a poor one.

It seems when you break it down faith is a component of belief for the sake of believing… This incorrect definition of faith will inevitably lead to the problems in obtaining correct knowledge.

Does making the choice so much harder somehow make it more correct? The choice is always there and neutral; difficulty is subjectively determined and assigned.

Edited July 22, 2012 by CV75

[coolrok7]

The topic is faith not false prophets.

My response initially addressed the topic of why faith? As some of the other responses did, I elabortaed briefly on an aspect of faith and its application as faith in the truth can lead to the object what faith is all about (which is the Jesus of Biblical revelation).

Faith in what is false will not deliver what one is seeking as a matter of faith. It was not an attempt to derail or anything like that. Jesus did give a warning along those lines.

Faith in the Biblical construct (in Hebrews) addresses the why of faith and its practical application in the the Old Testament faith situations of certain saints used as examples of faith. Faith is both part and parcel of how we receive things in the realm of what God wants to give to us.

[volgadon]

My response initially addressed the topic of why faith? As some of the other responses did, I elabortaed briefly on an aspect of faith and its application as faith in the truth can lead to the object what faith is all about (which is the Jesus of Biblical revelation).

Faith in what is false will not deliver what one is seeking as a matter of faith. It was not an attempt to derail or anything like that. Jesus did give a warning along those lines.

Faith in the Biblical construct (in Hebrews) addresses the why of faith and its practical application in the the Old Testament faith situations of certain saints used as examples of faith. Faith is both part and parcel of how we receive things in the realm of what God wants to give to us.

It never ceases toamaze me how you bring up those verses in almost every thread you participate in, no matter what the topic is.

[Calm]

It never ceases toamaze me how you bring up those verses in almost every thread you participate in, no matter what the topic is.

There can be a sense of comfort in the predictable, don't you think?

[volgadon]

There can be a sense of comfort in the predictable, don't you think?

True. I don't feel that I want a change of thrush at my time of life, if you get the reference.

[coolrok7]

The Why (of) faith? in its essentials is basically answered in Hebrews chapter 11.

Calmoriah, Volgadon, if you note at the bottom of my posts I've used , "The just shall live by faith" statement by Paul for awhile now. I've always since coming to faith have had no serious doubts or reservations about my relationship to God as it is a matter of faith that I come to Him by as I've learned in Scripture, inspired of the Holy Spirit to be written as well catalogued so to speak.

That faith is questioned by many who claim to have the same faith but specifically saying that they are the only true church/organization. This would leave others (like me) out of the "truth" or lacking certain aspects of truth that could be detrimental to ones future in the new heavens and earth (with what faith and its effects promise to us).

The different groups that have come to share their personal faith with me over the years expect me to listen to them as a matter being open minded to hear their message. I've done that. I've not received the reciprocal in return for the most part.

I was invited here from ZLMB by Anakin7 (then Tanyan). I was initially invited to ZLMB to by Kevin Graham, from his own website (Mormon Answers) who posted there at the time as a Mormon. Most of the arguments he used then are still used here today.

Early in my life I was told by Jehovah's Witness at home that what I believed was false, not the truth. That really bothered me because I didn't quite understand their perspective at the time (now I do).

I know that where they would disagree with me are the points raised by Charles Taze Russell are demostraby false when contratsed with Biblical teaching in its own context of history.

I can see that they are not inline with Biblical teaching based on what their founder taught in his writings (no different than I've found with many other only true churches/organizations).

It was later when the same basic message by Mormons I had learned of in which I went to the Institute of Religion in Hungtington Beach here in southern California to get answers to some of my questions. I was invited to become an investigator. The Institute director sent missionaries to where I lived to start the discussions as they were referred to at the time (summer of 1979).

The message was very close to Jehovah's Witnesses in the sense that God chose particular people to restore supposed "lost truth". I don't really see much difference in the claims except for the names of the founders of the respective belief systems, all requiring much of the same beliefs in opposition to what is known as orthodox Christianity.

I've had the same reaction in both cases, they never really want to deal with the issues I've raised over the years as the results of studying with each of them after being invited to do so..

I don't see in history where the truth was lost as the Bible has taught the same thing from its beginning in what is preserved in history. Why should it bother people in trying to get answers to questions I've been asked to ask as the result of taking the lessons from both camps as it deals with the isssues they raise?

In this thread I wasn't trying to derail. I was answering the question of, "Why Faith?" and one of its aspects in the whys and wherefores and how it applies to every day life as believers in Jesus. I had raised an aspect of faith (like others did in their responses) and its ramifications when it comes to things that are false as opposed to the truth.

[wenglund]

In addition to the insightful comments made thus far, I believe faith is necessary because the knowledge of certain things can't just be given to us. There are some things that are best, and perhaps only learned through experience. The conditions of faith (or in other words conditions where we can't see God face to face) enables us to experience those things. We grow in God's love by being exposed to and experiencing the challenging forces opposed to God's love, and rising above those opposing forces. We cannot experience those challenging forces in God's presence--since no unclean thing can enter the presence of God. And, so we have been separated from God's presence, and caused to act in faith, which in turn enables us to grow in God's love and understanding thereof.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[mfbukowski]

I was going to post, but I didn't have sufficient faith to believe that anyone would read it anyway.