Bsa Unanimously Reaffirms Homosexual Ban

[Tacenda]

...and I would be correct in that assumption. http://www.venturing...osexuality.html

Most assuredly you would.

[ERayR]

You don't know what its about, because you didn't vote, and you weren't in the room.

I can just as easily say that the ban is about emphasizing to the youth, the immorality of homosexuality.

We would both be guessing.

You claim that its about limiting liability is easily proven. Organizations have insurance to cover these claims. Do you honestly believe that if they reverse the policy and allow gays into scouting, their cost of their insurance policies will go up? If so, please show one insurance company that offers lower rates to companies that discriminate against gays.

I know that heterosexual men do not abuse boys. Girls maybe but not boys. By definition heterosexuals are attracted to the opposite sex and not the same sex. It makes no difference if they self identify as heterosexual or not. So by definition if a male molests a boy he is homosexual.

The first time they had a multimillion dollar incident their insurance would go up.

Insurance companies give lower rate for discriminatory reasons all the time. They discriminate against young drivers, They discriminate against drivers who have

DUI's, They discriminate against the medical profession because they are in a business with a high risk of being sued. The whole insurance industry is full of discriminatory pricing.

[cdowis]

Bottom line:

The young men in scouting are influenced by their leaders. They have open conversations as well being exposed to subtle influences from those youth leaders.

The BSA stands for a high standard of morality. IMO, they have decided that it is very likely that a gay leader, male or female, would not be able to provide that moral leadership. Even the possibility of such conversations and influences is not a risk that the BSA wants to take.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

Sad day in history to be sure!

The BSA does not support putting boys and girls in the same tent...this is just a logical extension of that. it is also their right to do so...we still have a few of them here.

[Hestia]

Jaybear is out for "discrimination" remarks.

[california boy]

I know that heterosexual men do not abuse boys.

I know that this is a commonly held BELIEF, but I don't know if it is true. Pedophiles have nothing to do with whether someone is gay or not. There is a recent case at Penn state that I am sure you are aware of. There is NO indication that Sandusky was gay. In fact just the opposite. He was married, had a wife and daughters. NO one has linked him to anything gay at all. What they have done is linked him directly to being a pedophile. Being attracted to a man is not the same as being attracted to a child. Even you must believe that, unless you are willing to say that heterosexuals because they are attracted to the opposite sex are attracted to children. I don't know if this is true or not. Maybe someone has some insight into this issue. But the one thing that I think we cal all agree to is the belief that just because someone is gay does not make him a pedophile.

[california boy]

Jaybear is out for "discrimination" remarks.

Are you saying that Jaybear got kicked out for this statement??

If so, please show one insurance company that offers lower rates to companies that discriminate against gays.

[california boy]

To be plain. I have no idea what kind of debate went on in the BSA meeting.

Regardless of behavioral patterns it is the right of the BSA to advocate their own definition of "morally straight" and given the three largest sponsors of BSA are Catholics, Methodists and Mormons they are not likely to divert from their present course.

I completely agree that it is the right of the BSA to discriminate against gays if they so choose. But it is also the right of the government and businesses to no longer allow BSA to use their facilities at a dollar a year for such discrimination. It also puts the church in an awkward situation. Is a LDS youth who is gay not allowed to participate in the activity arm of the young men's program which is scouting? Is ostracizing them from youth activities a good idea? Do we encourage gay members to not talk to their bishop about this but to stay in the closet so they can be active members? Just how does the church deal with this issue.

[ERayR]

I know that this is a commonly held BELIEF, but I don't know if it is true. Pedophiles have nothing to do with whether someone is gay or not. There is a recent case at Penn state that I am sure you are aware of. There is NO indication that Sandusky was gay. In fact just the opposite. He was married, had a wife and daughters. NO one has linked him to anything gay at all. What they have done is linked him directly to being a pedophile. Being attracted to a man is not the same as being attracted to a child. Even you must believe that, unless you are willing to say that heterosexuals because they are attracted to the opposite sex are attracted to children. I don't know if this is true or not. Maybe someone has some insight into this issue. But the one thing that I think we cal all agree to is the belief that just because someone is gay does not make him a pedophile.

I know you BELIEVE that heterosexual men abuse boys. I know that people like Sandusky self identify as heterosexual and expend great effort to keep that appearance BUT by DEFINITION they are homosexual or at the very least bisexual(i.e. have homosexual tendencies). Heterosexual men do not do males. The may molest young girls but by definition they do not molest males.

NOTE: I did NOT say all homosexuals molest young boys. I did Not say that heterosexuals do not molest young girls.

I have agreed all homosexuals do not molest young boys but by definition a molester of young boys is homosexual to some degree else he would molest young girls.

I don't know if the BSA decision lessons the risk to the boys or not. It hopefully reduces the circle of risk.

Wouldn't it be wonderful if we didn't have to worry about our young ones. Unfortunately we do.

[ERayR]

I completely agree that it is the right of the BSA to discriminate against gays if they so choose. But it is also the right of the government and businesses to no longer allow BSA to use their facilities at a dollar a year for such discrimination. It also puts the church in an awkward situation. Is a LDS youth who is gay not allowed to participate in the activity arm of the young men's program which is scouting? Is ostracizing them from youth activities a good idea? Do we encourage gay members to not talk to their bishop about this but to stay in the closet so they can be active members? Just how does the church deal with this issue.

The church deals with this they way every thing else is dealt with. On the local level. It is up to the Bishop. The bishop staffs the ward scout program per church standards and counsels closely and confidentially with the leaders and frequent interviews with the young man as he participates in the program.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

I completely agree that it is the right of the BSA to discriminate against gays if they so choose. But it is also the right of the government and businesses to no longer allow BSA to use their facilities at a dollar a year for such discrimination. It also puts the church in an awkward situation. Is a LDS youth who is gay not allowed to participate in the activity arm of the young men's program which is scouting? Is ostracizing them from youth activities a good idea? Do we encourage gay members to not talk to their bishop about this but to stay in the closet so they can be active members? Just how does the church deal with this issue.

It was done to my daughter, which was wrong. The BSA has a charter that the Church has to abide with

[california boy]

The church deals with this they way every thing else is dealt with. On the local level. It is up to the Bishop. The bishop staffs the ward scout program per church standards and counsels closely and confidentially with the leaders and frequent interviews with the young man as he participates in the program.

I am well aware of that. This homosexual who was in the closet, was the young mans president for many years. I was also the teachers quorum advisor for many years. The bishop put me in the youth program because he felt that not only God called me to that position, but he saw me change lives of some of the boys that I worked with. It has been many years since I worked in the young men's program. Yet there are still to this day some young men that are no longer young men keep in contact with me and thank me for the influence I was in their lives. I sometimes wonder if I had been "out" those opportunities would have been lost bor both me and the boys I served. I guess is all I am saying, is I don't feel wheter you are gay or not makes a bit of difference to being a good role model. I like how the church has avoided similar law suites by requiring 2 adults at all times. Personally I feel this structure is a much better protection for youth than a don't ask don't tell policy.

[california boy]

It was done to my daughter, which was wrong. The BSA has a charter that the Church has to abide with

I personally can not see how that policy helped your daughter. Sounds like your first hand experiece agrees.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

I personally can not see how that policy helped your daughter. Sounds like your first hand experiece agrees.

It did not help her...just drove her away. But people make mistakes, she not was allowed to go to girls camp because of a lot of small minded parents.

[thesometimesaint]

The is no correlation between homosexuality and pedophilia.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

The is no correlation between homosexuality and pedophilia.

She was 17 and her friends...no one suggested that. Some parents heard rumors and did want my daughter to attend girls camp with her friends. I assume you are speaking of my post.

[thesometimesaint]

Pa Pa:

No. I was responding to the assertion that there was a connection between homosexuality and pedophilia. There isn't.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

Pa Pa:

No. I was responding to the assertion that there was a connection between homosexuality and pedophilia. There isn't.

I must have missed that post.

[USU78]

The is no correlation between homosexuality and pedophilia.

Only if we define away the correlation for political purposes.

The abuse of underage boys by adult males is a homosexual phenomenon, whether you like it or not.

The abuse of underage girls by adult males is a heterosexual phenomenon, whether I like it or not.

And there is good evidence that the % of pedophile homosexual males is statistically significantly higher than the % of pedophile heterosexual males.

The only reason to try to define this away is political.

[USU78]

In response to tss' inevitable CFR: http://www.frc.org/get.cfm?i=is02e3

Homosexuals do 1/3 of the sexual offenses against children, and homosexuals are 1-3% of the population (depending upon who's doing the counting).

Let's not be disingenuous just to be politically correct.

[ERayR]

I am well aware of that. This homosexual who was in the closet, was the young mans president for many years. I was also the teachers quorum advisor for many years. The bishop put me in the youth program because he felt that not only God called me to that position, but he saw me change lives of some of the boys that I worked with. It has been many years since I worked in the young men's program. Yet there are still to this day some young men that are no longer young men keep in contact with me and thank me for the influence I was in their lives. I sometimes wonder if I had been "out" those opportunities would have been lost bor both me and the boys I served. I guess is all I am saying, is I don't feel wheter you are gay or not makes a bit of difference to being a good role model. I like how the church has avoided similar law suites by requiring 2 adults at all times. Personally I feel this structure is a much better protection for youth than a don't ask don't tell policy.

I can agree with this: I like how the church has avoided similar law suites by requiring 2 adults at all times. Personally I feel this structure is a much better protection for youth than a don't ask don't tell policy. The role model thing well I can see some potential problems there. I have a family member who, while I do not believe he would harm a child or teen, would not make a role model for young minds. I have entrusted my own to his care but I have had conversations with them about his behavior. So some who can encourage young men in traditional male roles yes but those whos behavior doesn't do this probably not.

I also believe most homosexuals would not hurt children or teens just as most heterosexuals would not. The problem is there are some who would and do. It is unfortunate that these predators do all they can to insert themselves into programs like BSA, Boys and Girls Clubs, etc in order to have easy access to potential victims. Because of this I can not fault BSA for being extra cautious.

[ERayR]

The is no correlation between homosexuality and pedophilia.

If the abuse is inflicted on boys it is by definition a homosexual act.

definition:

1

: of, relating to, or characterized by a tendency to direct sexual desire toward another of the same sex

2

: of, relating to, or involving sexual intercourse between persons of the same sex

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

In response to tss' inevitable CFR: http://www.frc.org/get.cfm?i=is02e3

Homosexuals do 1/3 of the sexual offenses against children, and homosexuals are 1-3% of the population (depending upon who's doing the counting).

Let's not be disingenuous just to be politically correct.

The more PC we are the more difficult it is to deal with any problem.

[ERayR]

The more PC we are the more difficult it is to deal with any problem.

Political correctness is used as a club to beat their opponent into submission and generally has nothing to do with reality. It is not about solving problems but only in overcoming opposition.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

Political correctness is used as a club to beat their opponent into submission and generally has nothing to do with reality. It is not about solving problems but only in overcoming opposition.

I know, one young lady was banned from the Olympics for a tweet. Bad joke, but banned from the games?