How Wrong Will God Let General Authorities Be?

[Freedom]

We learn line upon line. I do not think that scientists are leading us astray, they are providing the best understanding of the data that they have available. As more information becomes available, more research is done and the science gets more refined. The same is true with the church. We have a certain amount of knowledge. As more is revealed, the message gets refined. I cannot think of any instances where a prophet has led us astray. I disagree with many of their opinions on peripheral matters (evolution, interracial marriages, playing cards, Pres Bush has access to info we don't) but fundamentally, the principles and ordinances have been protected and preserved by Gods servants.

We also need to discern between getting things wrong and changing direction. The Law of Moses was not abandoned because the prophets were wrong. It was done away with because it served its purpose. There is a bit of hypocrisy among some members where they maintain that the church is directed by revelation on a daily basis, yet they question any teaching from the church leadership if it is not found in the scriptures. Not everything we teach is found in the scriptures, and not all revelation is found in the scriptures. The leaders of the church have constant access to research on numerous topics. They ponder the research (both secular and religious), receive the revelation, and teach it in venues such as general conference. Because we do not witness the process that led to their discourse, we automatically assume they are off base if it does not jive with the popular academic opinions of the day.

[DBMormon]

Individually they will be wrong from time to time.... collectively much less often

then again Peter was wrong in not giving the gospel to the gentiles and Paul had to be corrected a few times as well. Thomas doubted. The new testament is full of flawed Leaders. I can accept flaws. I just want us to correct it when it occurs and not allow false urban legends, folklore, false assumptions to seep further into our doctrine and history

[ERayR]

Individually they will be wrong from time to time.... collectively much less often

then again Peter was wrong in not giving the gospel to the gentiles and Paul had to be corrected a few times as well. Thomas doubted. The new testament is full of flawed Leaders. I can accept flaws. I just want us to correct it when it occurs and not allow false urban legends, folklore, false assumptions to seep further into our doctrine and history

Good luck folklore and urban legends are part of being human. That's why God gave us prophets and personal revelation.

Edited June 3, 2012 by ERayR

[DBMormon]

Good luck folklore and urban legends are part of being human. That's why God gave us prophets and personal revelation.

But then that means Prophets and apostles will need to speak out and correct them as needed

[ERayR]

But then that means Prophets and apostles will need to speak out and correct them as needed

As they are inspired to do every general conference

[Lightbearer]

But then that means Prophets and apostles will need to speak out and correct them as needed

Sounds like "Ark Steadying" to me. Isn't it presumptuous to assume that God is not in control of His revelations and that the prophets are witholding anything God wants revealed?

[Storm Rider]

There is an expectation of men that have been called of God as prophets and apostles to know truth, all truth. When this expectation is not met, then a degree of disbelief is introduced. This type of attack is most prevalent anti-Mormons; they quote mine and then say, "see how wrong your Church is"?

It is an easy problem to meet up with because then once it is understand that prophets and apostles don't know all truth and can be wrong in their teaching it puts a member on edge. What is right if they can be wrong. The way that I have handled this is always to go to the basics. When someone starts talking about Exaltation and states anything more than is found in the scriptures, then I know that it is not a doctrine of the Church; it is speculation and it may or may not be a truth.

If a prophet is going to introduce new doctrine to the Church he will bring the revelation before the Church for approval by common consent and it will be added to the Standard Works of the Church. If it has not been added, then it is speculation. This has worked for me and has allowed me to understand the mortal/human existence of God's chosen leaders on earth throughout history.

What is shocking for me is when anti-Mormons attack our leaders for being human; it is as if they are completely ignorant of the prophets of the Old Testament and the Apostles of the NT. None of them were perfect and some of them did some pretty horrific things and yet remained prophets. Let it never be said that anti-Mormons are particularly logical or intelligent.

[DBMormon]

Sounds like "Ark Steadying" to me. Isn't it presumptuous to assume that God is not in control of His revelations and that the prophets are witholding anything God wants revealed?

Then label me an online internet ark steadier, but those are my feelings.

[rodheadlee]

The toughest issue for me to crack right now is how wrong will God let the prophet/apostle/general authorities/correlation be?

What contexts will he allow them to be wrong in?

Why?

It is a very precarious position to ask a new member (let alone an old one) to rely on the spirit more than on what someone widely recognized for their spiritual stature and understanding is saying.

Yet, a member of the first presidency speaking in general conference is obviously not an indicator that it is going to be correct (see http://archive.org/s...e/n109/mode/2up, click on the page to move through the talk) .

but what about a prophet's interpretation of what God told him?

or a prophet (member of quorum of 12) speaking in general conference?

or a proclamation?

or an introduction to the Book of Mormon?

or a lesson manual?

or part of the temple ceremony?

or a calling from a local leader?

what things are we obliged to accept without personal spiritual confirmation or more especially when we aren't sure of our own spiritual confirmation?

I give, what is it about the talk the is not correct? I'm short on megabytes this month.

[bu11fr0g]

@rodheadlee

"In the course of time from the creation, in the days of Peleg, or about the year 2200 B.C., just prior to the confusion of the languages, the single continent of land that had continued from creation was divided to produce the hemispheres as we now know them."

[rodheadlee]

@rodheadlee

"In the course of time from the creation, in the days of Peleg, or about the year 2200 B.C., just prior to the confusion of the languages, the single continent of land that had continued from creation was divided to produce the hemispheres as we now know them."

Thank you.

[Thinking]

My answer is he will let them be as wrong as they want to be. On the other side of the coin they and us can be as right as we allow ourselves to be.

In 2007 I started a thread titled No Prophet Is Perfect. Some of the same questions were asked.

[Aliwe]

I think it really staggers the imagination of some people that through the ministration of the Holy Ghost millions of Mormon leaders and disciples of Christ around the world could be so unified in their belief in the important aspects of the Gospel without the use of coercion or deception.

This is an example of the fallacy of argumentum ad numerum, or "Fifty Million Elvis Fans Can't Be Wrong." If I were to accept the reasoning as valid, I would look a hundred times harder at Roman Catholicism, because there's a hundred Catholics for every Mormon, and all of them, around the world, are equally united in their belief and the important aspects of the Gospel without coercion or deception.

[cdowis]

Just look at the history of the church. Some apostles had joined forces with the persecutors of the church, but they were removed from their position.

[John Ping Pong]

The toughest issue for me to crack right now is how wrong will God let the prophet/apostle/general authorities/correlation be?

As wrong as they have a mind to be, apparently.

[John Ping Pong]

I think it really staggers the imagination of some people that through the ministration of the Holy Ghost millions of Mormon leaders and disciples of Christ around the world could be so unified in their belief in the important aspects of the Gospel without the use of coercion or deception.

Or through the ministration of Harold B. Lee's Super Priesthood Correlation Committee, which seems to have finally gotten the water to the end of the row.