mercyngrace Posted February 25, 2012 Posted February 25, 2012 (edited) No.Everyone who ever lived will be resurrected. That is a free gift of the atonement.Or not.Brigham Young said that we aren't prepared to receive our bodies until we progress in our learning to the point that our minds are no longer darkened.If a person is baptized for the remission of sins, and dies a short time thereafter, he is not prepared at once to enjoy a fulness of the glory promised to the faithful in the Gospel; for he must be schooled while in the spirit, in the other departments of the house of God, passing on from truth to truth, from intelligence to intelligence, until he is prepared to again receive his body and to enter into the presence of the Father and the Son. We cannot enter into celestial glory in our present state of ignorance and mental darkness (DBY, 378–79).That isn't some obscure quote by the way. It comes from the BY manual we used in RS/PH a couple of years back.Getting our bodies back appears to be the culmination of our progress ... Edited February 25, 2012 by mercyngrace
Rob Osborn Posted February 25, 2012 Posted February 25, 2012 Regardless of how or what bodies we attain to in the resurrection, we know that we will have glory upon glory added upon us forever. If we take a literal meaning of the temple endowment, then we know that telestial and terrestrial laws are what leads up to the celestial- admittance into celestial glory. As for separate planets for the saved after resurrection, I dont believe it and I believe the evidence for one physical heaven is very well established in scripture. I mean, after all, is that not what we are really debating- whether or not all the saved will reside on one planet or three? If there is only one planet then there is no debate. If there are three separate planets however then you have a myriad of other issues to wodk out, some of which are pretty difficult to deal with.
mfbukowski Posted February 25, 2012 Posted February 25, 2012 (edited) Or not.Brigham Young said that we aren't prepared to receive our bodiesuntil we progress in our learning to the point that our minds are no longer darkened.If a person is baptized for the remission of sins, and dies a short time thereafter, he is not prepared at once to enjoy a fulness of the glory promised to the faithful in the Gospel; for he must be schooled while in the spirit, in the other departments of the house of God, passing on from truth to truth, from intelligence to intelligence, until he is prepared to again receive his body and to enter into the presence of the Father and the Son. We cannot enter into celestial glory in our present state of ignorance and mental darkness (DBY, 378–79).That isn't some obscure quote by the way. It comes from the BY manual we used in RS/PH a couple of years back.I'm not denying that either. But you're not saying that some will not be resurrected are you? Edited February 25, 2012 by mfbukowski
mercyngrace Posted February 25, 2012 Posted February 25, 2012 I'm not denying that.All I'm saying is that there will be a Terrestrial Kingdom after the Resurrection- that is very clear.I don't think it's clear at all.Brigham Young said that only one kingdom would exist when the Lord's work was finished.
mfbukowski Posted February 25, 2012 Posted February 25, 2012 Regardless of how or what bodies we attain to in the resurrection, we know that we will have glory upon glory added upon us forever. If we take a literal meaning of the temple endowment, then we know that telestial and terrestrial laws are what leads up to the celestial- admittance into celestial glory. As for separate planets for the saved after resurrection, I dont believe it and I believe the evidence for one physical heaven is very well established in scripture. I mean, after all, is that not what we are really debating- whether or not all the saved will reside on one planet or three? If there is only one planet then there is no debate. If there are three separate planets however then you have a myriad of other issues to wodk out, some of which are pretty difficult to deal with.We're talking universes here, not planets imo. And we are definitely moving back and forth across the fringes of what anyone even speculatively knows.
Rob Osborn Posted February 25, 2012 Posted February 25, 2012 (edited) Double post. Edited February 25, 2012 by Rob Osborn
mercyngrace Posted February 25, 2012 Posted February 25, 2012 I'm not denying that either. But you're not saying that some will not be resurrected are you?I'm saying that everything I've read and studied on the matter has convinced me that resurrection is the culmination of our progress and that lower order beings don't inherit resurrected bodies until they are prepared to receive them.Which indicates that this progression comes prior to resurrection. But that it also comes to all.**Standard caveat about SOPs applies as we do not know their fate.
mfbukowski Posted February 25, 2012 Posted February 25, 2012 (edited) I don't think it's clear at all.Brigham Young said that only one kingdom would exist when the Lord's work was finished.That's not what it says in D&C.- what ? 76Edit: Yes, 76 starting at verse 80It won't let me quote it here- I don't know why Edited February 25, 2012 by mfbukowski
inquiringmind Posted February 25, 2012 Author Posted February 25, 2012 No.Everyone who ever lived will be resurrected. That is a free gift of the atonement.So there are two categories of people we are talking about here- 1= Those alive during the Millenium, 2= Those who have been translated.Neither 1 nor 2 will "taste death"- that means that they will not die in an ordinary sense- but they will be changed in the "twinkling of an eye", presumably at the time of the judgement, after the millenium, or before if they qualify- and will receive their resurrected bodies. All will be resurrected.The English word "Resurrection" means "to rise to life again."In Greek it's anistemi which literally means "to re-rise."So it would be technically impossible for anyone who had never been dead to be resurrected.
inquiringmind Posted February 25, 2012 Author Posted February 25, 2012 (edited) delete Edited February 25, 2012 by inquiringmind
Rob Osborn Posted February 25, 2012 Posted February 25, 2012 We're talking universes here, not planets imo. And we are definitely moving back and forth across the fringes of what anyone even speculatively knows.So what do youmake of St. JOHNS Revelation where he describes the celestial kingdom being this earth and allthesaved having access here except for the sons of perdition? 1
mfbukowski Posted February 25, 2012 Posted February 25, 2012 I'm saying that everything I've read and studied on the matter has convinced me that resurrection is the culmination of our progress and that lower order beings don't inherit resurrected bodies until they are prepared to receive them.Which indicates that this progression comes prior to resurrection. But that it also comes to all.**Standard caveat about SOPs applies as we do not know their fate.Yes- of course, agreed. Isn't it past your bedtime??
inquiringmind Posted February 25, 2012 Author Posted February 25, 2012 Yes- of course, agreed. Isn't it past your bedtime??Are you implying that Care is an adolescent, or are you assuming it's past her bedtime because she's a woman?
mfbukowski Posted February 25, 2012 Posted February 25, 2012 Does it say anything in D&C 76 about the Lord's work being finished?Surely you can look this up?
mercyngrace Posted February 25, 2012 Posted February 25, 2012 Yes- of course, agreed. Isn't it past your bedtime??Way past my bedtime!But this is such a fun topic.... Actually, I was uploading reports for work and the system went down for maintenance. I'm waiting for it to come back online so I can hit "submit". Ugh.
Rob Osborn Posted February 25, 2012 Posted February 25, 2012 Does it say anything in D&C 76 about the Lord's work being finished?IN Fact it does. It says that Christ will reign until all his work is zpotless.
mercyngrace Posted February 25, 2012 Posted February 25, 2012 Are you implying that Care is an adolescent, or are you assuming it's past her bedtime because she's a woman?IM -Mark is a friend. He knows we live on opposite coasts, that's all.
Rob Osborn Posted February 25, 2012 Posted February 25, 2012 106 These are they who are cast down to hell and suffer the wrath of Almighty God, until the fulness of times, when Christ shall have subdued all enemies under his feet, and shall have perfected his work;107 When he shall deliver up the kingdom, and present it unto the Father, spotless, saying: I have overcome and have trodden the wine-press alone, even the wine-press of the fierceness of the wrath of Almighty God.108 Then shall he be crowned with the crown of his glory, to sit on the throne of his power to reign forever and ever.
inquiringmind Posted February 25, 2012 Author Posted February 25, 2012 IM -Mark is a friend. He knows we live on opposite coasts, that's all.Sorry.
mfbukowski Posted February 25, 2012 Posted February 25, 2012 Does it say anything in D&C 76 about the Lord's work being finished?Surely you can look this up?So what do youmake of St. JOHNS Revelation where he describes the celestial kingdom being this earth and allthesaved having access here except for the sons of perdition?Who knows?I don't know how those who are exalted are going to be like God who organized "worlds without number" if we are all stuck on one planet, but I don't think our salvation hinges on this."So wake up, and do something more than dream of your mansions on high...."
inquiringmind Posted February 25, 2012 Author Posted February 25, 2012 (edited) delete Edited February 25, 2012 by inquiringmind
Freedom Posted February 25, 2012 Posted February 25, 2012 The scriptures are clear that this is the time of our probation, this is the time to prepare to meet God. If we do not do it here, we have lost the opportunity. We are resurrected, then fact judgement, then receive our reward. Just as there are those who choose not to move on to having bodies and will be in that state for all eternity, there are those who are not willing to follow God and will be dammed for all eternity.
mfbukowski Posted February 25, 2012 Posted February 25, 2012 IM -Mark is a friend. He knows we live on opposite coasts, that's all."East is east and west is west and never the twain shall meet"Hope that gets back on line for you soon.
mercyngrace Posted February 25, 2012 Posted February 25, 2012 Every kingdom will be blotted out of existence, except the one whose ruling spirit is the Holy Ghost, and whose king is the Lord. ~ Brigham Young (JOD 2:124)
mercyngrace Posted February 25, 2012 Posted February 25, 2012 (edited) The scriptures are clear that this is the time of our probation, this is the time to prepare to meet God. If we do not do it here, we have lost the opportunity. We are resurrected, then face judgement, then receive our reward. Just as there are those who choose not to move on to having bodies and will be in that state for all eternity, there are those who are not willing to follow God and will be dammed for all eternity.Because infinite damnation for finite sins = perfect justice? Edited February 25, 2012 by mercyngrace
Recommended Posts