How Is One Saved According To General Authorities Vrs Lds Apologists ?

[Anakin7]

LDS critics point out constantly that LDS Apologists are in disagreement on True Salvation Soteriological journeys on how one is truly Saved. General Auhtorities say keep the commandments, LDS Apolgists thou stressing commandments are stressing more Grace than the General authorities. Any Observations/thoughts ?.

In His Debt/Grace

Anakin7

LDS JEDI KNIGHT

[altersteve]

I have never heard a General Authority say that all we need to do to be saved is just "keep the commandments."

[Anakin7]

I do not remember the General Authority that is quoted by LDS critics but the statement /Quote is " We Earn It " in regards/relation to our personal Salvation Journey/Quest.

In His Debt/Grace

Anakin7

LDS JEDI KNIGHT

[altersteve]

I do not remember the General Authority that is quoted by LDS critics but the statement /Quote is " We Earn It " in regards/relation to our personal Salvation Journey/Quest.

In His Debt/Grace

Anakin7

LDS JEDI KNIGHT

Yes, exaltation is "earned" in a sense, but it is "earned" through the grace of Jesus Christ. Without Him, there is no salvation, period. The Church has always emphatically declared this.

[JDave]

General Auhtorities say keep the commandments, LDS Apolgists thou stressing commandments are stressing more Grace than the General authorities. Any Observations/thoughts ?.

People stress what their audience needs to hear. LDS Apologists may stress grace more in an effort to balance the attacks from critics that the church teaches salvation through works. That's what the critics and those considering the critics' arguments need to hear.

General Authorities stress keeping the commandments because we need to keep the commandments. General Authorities also stress grace because we need to rely on our Savior Jesus Christ as the sole finisher of our faith. That is what we all need to hear. People are free to emphasize one side and de-emphasize the other, but it is not representative of what the Church leaders teach, which is a fairly balanced mix.

[KevinG]

CFR that any General Authority said "we earn it [our salvation]" or anything like it.

Were you thinking of Paul writing "work out your own ^bsalvation with fear and trembling."?

[KevinG]

These are as close as I can find to a general authority saying "salvation is earned" but in each context "earned" means through faith or following Christ.

"Agency is one of the great gifts of God to His children. It allows all men and women the right to choose for themselves and to earn their own individual salvation." L. Tom Perry "the Articles of Faith" April 1998

"But we must understand that salvation is not a free gift. The offer is free indeed, through the atonement of the Savior. But its enjoyment must be earned, not with any halfhearted effort, but with wholesouled, undivided, concentrated application to a program of development which is called the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ." Mark E. Peterson "What Will A Man Give?" October 1973

[The Nehor]

LDS critics point out constantly that LDS Apologists are in disagreement on True Salvation Soteriological journeys on how one is truly Saved. General Auhtorities say keep the commandments, LDS Apolgists thou stressing commandments are stressing more Grace than the General authorities. Any Observations/thoughts ?.

Read more of the words of the General Authorities.

[Doctrine 612]

I hear alot of "Have faith in christ and keep the commandment" its all tied together as one

[thesometimesaint]

Two sides of the same coin. You can't have one without the other.

[Anakin7]

CFR that any General Authority said "we earn it [our salvation]" or anything like it.

Were you thinking of Paul writing "work out your own ^bsalvation with fear and trembling."?

I do not know if this works but I found this in a past thread on salvation started by our friend Robert Bowman

http;//www.mormondialogue.org/topic/50489-earning-salvation/

In His Debt/Grace

Anakin7

LDS JEDI KNIGHT

[Loran Blood]

My one problem with a certian sub-group within the LDS apologetic community is a clear if mostly covert atttude or sense, among some, that it will be very difficult to be saved without an advanced degree from a name institution of higher learning (and hopefully from the ivy league) in a scholarly discipline or disciplines relevant to gospel subjects. It is a sense that without the ability to read the scriptures in the ancient languages in which they were written, and a fairly deep scholarly grasp of what most members would consider rather arcane areas of historical and ancient sociocultural concern, real understanding of the gospel is not possible.

Some of these LDS intellectuals would, I fear, feign interpose themselves between the membeship of the Church and the Brethren, as to matters of doctrinal understanding. Ultimately, I think the broader apologetic community will, at some point, have to shed itself of this element among the LDS intellectual elite.

Edited February 15, 2012 by Loran Blood

[Anakin7]

We are Saved by The True Grace [charis] of Christ Jesus alone "Through" Our True Faith [pistis] Alone in Christ Jesus on condition if one stays in the Atoning Blood Sacrifice Covenant one has made with GOD The Father and with Christ Jesus [No once saved always saved]. Salvation maintenence is required [ True Faith/ True Repentance/Keeping the 2 Great Commandments]. You do not earn your own salvation but you earn the right to Be and Stay in True Salvation.

In His Debt/Grace

Anakin7

LDS JEDI KNIGHT

[The Nehor]

My one problem with a certian sub-group within the LDS apologetic community is a clear if mostly covert atttude or sense, among some, that it will be very difficult to be saved without an advanced degree from a name institution of higher learning (and hopefully from the ivy league) in a scholarly discipline or disciplines relevant to gospel subjects. It is a sense that without the ability to read the scriptures in the ancient languages in which they were written, and a fairly deep scholarly grasp of what most members would consider rather arcane areas of historical and ancient sociocultural concern, real understanding of the gospel is not possible.

Some of these LDS intellectuals would, I fear, feign interpose themselves between the membeship of the Church and the Brethren, as to matters of doctrinal understanding. Ultimately, I think the broader apologetic community will, at some point, have to shed itself of this element among the LDS intellectual elite.

I think this is rare but there are always those with gospel hobbies. Why I've even met LDS apologists who insist that their political orthodoxy is necessary to be saved. Why they would choose to interpose themselves between the Brethren (who espouse neutrality on this point) and the general body of the church on this matter of doctrinal understanding I do not know.

[Calm]

I think this is rare but there are always those with gospel hobbies. Why I've even met LDS apologists who insist that their political orthodoxy is necessary to be saved.

I think I've seen many more nonscholars with pet hobbies that draw lines on who is saved and who isn't depending on a certain understanding or position or involvement in a particular practice than I've seen scholars who insist their understanding of doctrine/scriptures is the one pathway to salvation/exaltation.

However, there are many more people who are not biblical/scriptural scholars than who are so this discrepancy does not surprise me.

[Maidservant]

are in disagreement

Are at different points in their understanding. It seems to me as I've observed over the years that the LDS approach to belief and knowledge is self-driven, taught of the Lord, and are fine with differences on many things (not so much on other basics), i.e. not dictated on what to think (even though some inside and outside fear this). This approach is a little un-nerving to others? I don't know. Just as I've observed. Can't speak for everyone of course.

We are Saved by The True Grace [charis] of Christ Jesus alone "Through" Our True Faith [pistis] Alone in Christ Jesus on condition if one stays in the Atoning Blood Sacrifice Covenant one has made with GOD The Father and with Christ Jesus [No once saved always saved]. Salvation maintenence is required [ True Faith/ True Repentance/Keeping the 2 Great Commandments]. You do not earn your own salvation but you earn the right to Be and Stay in True Salvation.

In His Debt/Grace

Anakin7

LDS JEDI KNIGHT

Exactly.

I think I've seen many more nonscholars with pet hobbies that draw lines on who is saved and who isn't depending on a certain understanding or position or involvement in a particular practice than I've seen scholars who insist their understanding of doctrine/scriptures is the one pathway to salvation/exaltation.

However, there are many more people who are not biblical/scriptural scholars than who are so this discrepancy does not surprise me.

He he he. Like bread baking? Crafts at Relief Society? I am in deeeeeeeeep trouble!

[coolrok7]

Anakin7, on 14 February 2012 – 07:17 PM, said

General Auhtorities say keep the commandments, LDS Apolgists thou stressing commandments are stressing more Grace than the General authorities. Any Observations/thoughts ?.”

(JDave) People stress what their audience needs to hear. LDS Apologists may stress grace more in an effort to balance the attacks from critics that the church teaches salvation through works. That's what the critics and those considering the critics' arguments need to hear.

General Authorities stress keeping the commandments because we need to keep the commandments. General Authorities also stress grace because we need to rely on our Savior Jesus Christ as the sole finisher of our faith. That is what we all need to hear. People are free to emphasize one side and de-emphasize the other, but it is not representative of what the Church leaders teach, which is a fairly balanced mix.

Church leaders (as the result of the teaching of Joseph Smith) redefine the terminology which ends up distorting Biblical teaching (same terminology for the most part while mixing up the meaning):

(DaddyG) CFR that any General Authority said "we earn it [our salvation]" or anything like it. Were you thinking of Paul writing "work out your own ^bsalvation with fear and trembling."?

You May Earn Salvation through Christ (THE PURPOSE OF LIFE pamphlet, p.4)

By revelation, our Savior made known again the plan of salvation and exaltation. Resurrection comes as a gift to every man through Jesus Christ, but the reward of the highest eternal opportunities you must earn. It is not just enough to believe in Jesus Christ. You must work and learn, search and pray, repent and improve, know his laws and live them. (YOUR PRE-EARTH LIFE pamphlet, p.10)

Thus, brothers and sisters, along with the great and free gift of the universal and personal resurrection there is also the personal possibility of meriting eternal life. (The Ensign, Elder Neal A. Maxwell, 1997, p.23)

It is through the grace of the Lord Jesus, made possible by his atoning sacrifice. . .This grace is an enabling power that allows men and women to lay hold on eternal life and exaltation after they have expended their own best efforts. . . .(AFTER ALL WE CAN DO. . .GRACE WORKS, Robert L. Millet, p.18)

What we earn is death, not eternal life which is the gift of God (Mormonism teaches that one is justified by law which neither they nor anyone else can ever measure up to perfection).

You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. (Galatians 5:4)

For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. (Romans 6:23)

In the 1985 Gospel Principles manual, in the chapter on Exaltation, it says the following:

REQUIREMENTS FOR EXALTATION

. . .There are specific ordinances we must have received to be exalted:

1. We must be baptized and confirmed a member of the

Church of Jesus Christ.

2. We must receive the Holy Ghost.

3. We must receive the temple endowment.

4. We must be married for time and eternity.

In addition to the required ordinances, there are also many laws we have to obey to qualify for exaltation--We must . . . (p.291)

This is the way our Heavenly Father became a God. . . .Joseph Smith taught, “it is the first principle of the Gospel to know for a certainty the character of God. . .he was once a man like us, . . .God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ himself did” (p.293; Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pp.345-46[King Follet Discourse])

[Hestia]

coolrock has been warned about preaching. Out of the thread.

[Grundelwalken]

One is 'saved' by being the best they can be in their efforts to follow Christ and His Father. It is not works that save us but it is works that show the level of our faith in the Atonement of Christ. Ordinances and covenants are another form of 'faith showing' that is necessary if we are to be truly faithful to our God and His Son. The works we do are not the be-all-end-all to our salvation but they are sure a sign that we have accepted Christ and His work. MW

[Flyonthewall]

It is through the grace of Jesus Christ that what we do has any meaning at all.

If it seems like we focus on works, it is only because grace is considered to be a given.

When I give someone driving instructions on how to get to my house, I don't have to tell them to open their car door, get in the car, turn the car on, etc..I can simply focus on the directions, I don't even have to mention their car, but it is understood.

[BCSpace]

LDS critics point out constantly that LDS Apologists are in disagreement on True Salvation Soteriological journeys on how one is truly Saved. General Auhtorities say keep the commandments, LDS Apolgists thou stressing commandments are stressing more Grace than the General authorities. Any Observations/thoughts ?.

When the GA's, and most LDS most of the time for that matter, speak of salvation, it is in the context of the highest degree of Glory. However, one can be considered saved in any degree of glory and indeed for the lowest degree, one essentially has to do nothing but sit around like a bump on a log and intellectually assent to Jesus at the very end. I don't think any GA would disagree with that.

But the mission of the Church is to exalt man, to gain eternal life which is life with the Gods as Gods, and that is only found in the highest degree of glory and work and obedience to commandments are required.

Edited March 9, 2012 by BCSpace

[altersteve]

It is through the grace of Jesus Christ that what we do has any meaning at all.

If it seems like we focus on works, it is only because grace is considered to be a given.

When I give someone driving instructions on how to get to my house, I don't have to tell them to open their car door, get in the car, turn the car on, etc..I can simply focus on the directions, I don't even have to mention their car, but it is understood.

Excellent analogy.