Video Gone Viral: Jesus Vs. Religion

[california boy]

Sigh, I don't distort, but you seem to deride quite easily. We know that you would justify any action against Mormons for your political agenda, we also know you disdain and hate the church for its existence, you have often issued diatribes calling the church, its doctrines, and its prophets evil, terrible people. Praise from you should give one pause.

Like I said. your view of Christ is somewhat distorted to justify your own behavior. Of course you want to try and turn it on both me and Mercy because you have absoluely no scripture or example to back up your view of who Christ really is. This is not about some political agenda, it is about the example Christ set for all of us. The one who would not walk the other side of the street no matter who the person was.

I don't know if you are referring to me about me when you say

we also know you disdain and hate the church for its existence, you have often issued diatribes calling the church, its doctrines, and its prophets evil, terrible people.

but I have NEVER felt that way about the church. In fact I have often stated on this very form that I have no problem with the church. I encourage those that find faith and strenght in the church to stay active and involved. And If you are directing that comment to me I CERTAINLY WANT A CFR ON THAT POINT. If not, you are BOUND by the rules of this board to issue an apology. I have posted 1,129 times. So you got a lot of posts you can use. So start digging or APOLOGIZE.

Somethings I will take from you and let slide. This statement I will not. I will let Mercy speak for herself.

[The Nehor]

I think this argument involves both of you talking past each other.

[Jeff K.]

Everyone know who you are here California Boy. You will get no apology for your boorish posts attacking the church.

Edited January 28, 2012 by Jeff K.

[sethpayne]

Everyone know who you are here California Boy. You will get no apology for your boorish posts attacking the church.

Hi Jeff,

Can you give us a link of two? I've never remembered CB as being boorish .... but my memory isn't great and I could most certainly be wrong.

CFR -- out of genuine curiousity.

Seth

[Jeff K.]

I am not familiar with the search engines, but I would suggest looking up how he justified attacks on the church in CA for prop 8

[mercyngrace]

Somethings I will take from you and let slide. This statement I will not. I will let Mercy speak for herself.

I don't think that remark was aimed at me. If it were, I think anyone familiar with this board would recognize it as baseless libel.

[california boy]

Everyone know who you are here California Boy. You will get no apology for your boorish posts attacking the church.

Try again Jeff. I may strongle disagree with the church being involved in Prop 8 but I also have stated time and time again that they had every right to be vocal in the public square and that the Mormon church has a right to define marriage any way they want in the church.

I repeat I have NEVER issued diatribes calling the church, its doctrines, and its prophets evil, terrible people.

If as you say I have often done this then just fiind ONE to prove your point. Otherwise, RETRACT YOUR STATEMENT AND APOLOGIZE. QUIT MAKING THINGS UP AND THEN NOT SUPPORTING YOUR STATEMENTS.

[california boy]

I don't think that remark was aimed at me. If it were, I think anyone familiar with this board would recognize it as baseless libel.

Of course it was not directd at you. You certainly have not said anything wrong. I was just letting you comment on what Jeff said about both of us.

[california boy]

I am not familiar with the search engines, but I would suggest looking up how he justified attacks on the church in CA for prop 8

You have no excuse Jeff. Find a quote by me to back up your allegation or APOLOGIZE. Don't you get it. It is a simple board rule.

[mercyngrace]

Perhaps when you know Christ more, that aspect you find so alien will not be so?

I humbly accept all invitations to better know Christ.

However, if He turns His back on some of the children of God, I won't be the only one who is shocked.

Jesus had not finished his work when his body was slain, neither did he finish it after his resurrection from the dead; although he had accomplished the purpose for which he then came to the earth, he had not fulfilled all his work. And when will he? Not until he has redeemed and saved every son and daughter of our father Adam that have been or ever will be born upon this earth to the end of time, except the sons of perdition. That is his mission. ~ President Harold B. Lee

[sethpayne]

I am not familiar with the search engines, but I would suggest looking up how he justified attacks on the church in CA for prop 8

So no response to the CFR.

As I said, I have no memory of CB being boorish.

[Jeff K.]

I can't respond if I am not sure how.

[Jeff K.]

I humbly accept all invitations to better know Christ.

However, if He turns His back on some of the children of God, I won't be the only one who is shocked.

Jesus had not finished his work when his body was slain, neither did he finish it after his resurrection from the dead; although he had accomplished the purpose for which he then came to the earth, he had not fulfilled all his work. And when will he? Not until he has redeemed and saved every son and daughter of our father Adam that have been or ever will be born upon this earth to the end of time, except the sons of perdition. That is his mission. ~ President Harold B. Lee

You seem to mistake Christ turning his back with God's children turning theirs on Christ, which is my position and it has never been different. When they turn their back on Christ, he still has other work to do and moves on.

Edited January 28, 2012 by Jeff K.

[mercyngrace]

You seem to mistake Christ turning his back with God's children turning theirs on Christ, which is my position and it has never been different. When they turn their back on Christ, he still has other work to do and moves on.

Here are your words again:

Christ would sit with anyone wishing to repent, and avoided those who did not wish to repent or felt no need of repentance, that did not only include the leaders of religious sects.

What other work do you suppose Christ has to do besides rescuing God's children? The book of Moses explains that this is His work and glory. (Moses 1:39)

[Jeff K.]

Other people willing to hear. He chose to leave the Pharisees and Sadducees to their own devices.... Would you berate Christ for leaving the group that may have needed repentance the most? That being the elites?

[Jeff K.]

Or going to those who were most willing to hear Him?

[Calm]

I am not familiar with the search engines, but I would suggest looking up how he justified attacks on the church in CA for prop 8

This link will take you to the advanced search engine. http://www.mormondialogue.org/index.php?app=core&module=search&search_in=forums

All you have to do is put calfornia boy's name in the slot for author and then pick whatever words you believe will bring you to a topic that he is negative about, perhaps "Prop 8" since you suggest that for others to search on. Place phrases in quotes to avoid pulling up every instance of one of the words.

I would suggest marking the option "view as posts" rather than "view as topic" because that will take you directly to his posts and save you time. You can search all the forums or narrow it down to either General Discussions or In the News to speed up the search.

[Damien the Leper]

There is a certain irony in someone who demands that we accept the video's claims and perceptions without criticism lecturing us about "absolutes".

I didn't demand anything. You perceive that I demanded but I did not.

This assumes that all of the approaches are of equal value- which is a fruitless exercise in both nihilism and moral equivalency.

I prefer pluralism as opposed to religious elitism. I see it every day in EVs who demand that all convert to Christianity or be damned.

Wait a second...weren't you lecturing us earlier that we had to accept you as a Mormon because you said so?

Why then shouldn't we accept the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as the Lord's one true church? They claim to be.

So why is YOUR claim more valid than THEIRS?

The bottom line, however is that I don't accept the Church as God's own because THEY say so. I accept them as such because HE says so, and I take the Lord at his word.

No. I stated I was a Mormon. I also stated that your definition of Mormon was not the standard definition but a popular one. Whether consider me to be Mormon or not is irrelevant.

Since you don't accept the LDS church as God's own because it claims to be then is HE saying to you that it is? If that is the case, then that is only for you, Selek. Or is someone telling you that HE said it is? If that is the case, then it's hearsay.

We can't? Why not? Because you said so?

Definitely NOT because I say so. Give the person some credit or at the very least give them the benefit of the doubt. As I stated before, I believe that God calls us where HE calls us and not where someone says He calls us. God knows what He is doing and 99% of the time I don't know what He is doing but I trust Him.

Setting aside (once again) the disingenuousness of the "our Church" mantra, your position above is a statement of belief.

Can you back it up with something more solid than your naked opinion?

As I stated before, I have no use for religious elitism. Can you back up your position with something more authoritative than the biased belief of the LDS church...the same belief that you seem to subscribe to. Which also seems to be a naked opinion because to attempt to use scripture as evidence shows how erroneous such a position is. Scripture can be inspirational but as I said before it is shaped by human experience.

Because JS said God says so...is an example of hearsay.

EV preacher quoting John's gospel who is quoting Jesus....hearsay.

See Marcus Borg's Reading the Bible Again for the First Time

Also, using the tactic of "Nuh uh! [insert modern revelation here]" is also fallacious. Not that you did though, Selek.

Actually, those of us who are faithful members do precisely that every day. Our missionaries are called and sent forth in God's name. Our Priesthood blessings, our religious services, our Church meetings- and even our family meals are consecrated in God's name, and according to his commandments.

We are commanded by God to do these things- and so we very well can project our calling, our commission, and our sacred duty on him.

Anything less would be denying Christ (which is, incidentally, a mortal sin).

More accurately, this is what the LDS church believes God is calling the missionaries to do so.

LDS believe they are commanded to do so.

It's a belief based on religious experience and interpretation...which is hardly an argument of authority.

Because you say so? Your position flatly contradicts Scripture.

We know my position on scripture and human experience. History shows this.

We can't?

Why not?

Ok...yes we can. But it is a claim of truth aka an opinion.

[Yirgacheffe]

Amen.

When talking to people who imagine contemplation is spirituality I have often wanted to react like this guy:

I suppose it might be helpful in my understanding of your post to have watched the video in the op, but most of the time video locks up my computer and when it doesn't it is annoying to try to watch. Could you elaborate on what you mean in this post?

[The Nehor]

I suppose it might be helpful in my understanding of your post to have watched the video in the op, but most of the time video locks up my computer and when it doesn't it is annoying to try to watch. Could you elaborate on what you mean in this post?

To quote part of the video:

"Isn't she just? Aren't you all entitled to your half-assed musings on the divine? You've thought about eternity for twenty minutes and think you've come to some interesting conclusions."

It's satire but it's satire of both the religious nut and the vaguely spiritual idiot.

[california boy]

Jeff, it is now DAY 2 since I have called for a CFR. This is your statement you made about me.

we also know you disdain and hate the church for its existence, you have often issued diatribes calling the church, its doctrines, and its prophets evil, terrible people.

And this was my call for a CFR

but I have NEVER felt that way about the church. In fact I have often stated on this very form that I have no problem with the church. I encourage those that find faith and strength in the church to stay active and involved. And If you are directing that comment to me I CERTAINLY WANT A CFR ON THAT POINT. If not, you are BOUND by the rules of this board to issue an apology. I have posted 1,129 times. So you got a lot of posts you can use. So start digging or APOLOGIZE.

You have been provided a link on how to search my posts. You have still yet to provide ANY evidence that I have ever made such comments about the Mormon church or it's leaders. Jeff, I am not going to let this go. In fact, I am going to post statements I HAVE made about the Mormon church and it's leaders using the same search function that was provided to you. This is from a post I made on December 15, 2011

Despite how others try to paint me as, I respect the Mormon church. I encourage my children to remain active in the church. And you will not be able to find any post I have ever written to discourage anyone from being a Mormon. Of course you will find many posts by me where I disagree with the actions of the church. I don't think the church leaders KNOW the will of God. I think they decide most things by committee. And I have to say, I seem to be more disappointed when I feel the church is being deceptive then I did when I was more active in the church.

Now does that sound like someone who has "often issued diatribes calling the church, its doctrines, and its prophets evil, terrible people"

Jeff, I am not going to let this CFR go like so many I have asked from you. I am going to post a demand for a CFR from you each day on this thread until you APOLOGIZE and acknowledge that you falsely characterized me, my beliefs, and my behavior.

This is day two. The longer you do not respond the more it tarnishes your own integrity and truthfulness. It reflects an attitude you have towards me and other posters that you have made similar smear statements against. Step up to the plate Jeff. We are all waiting.

[Jeff K.]

I haven't looked it up, you may do as you will, my time has been somewhat limited of late making presentations both stake and to non members. Complain for a bit longer if you feel the need to. Stew on it a bit more if you wish. I will allow you to do so. I am sure you exemplify the spirit of Christ in your quest to slay dragons.

I appreciate your statements, people make all kinds of statements. One is however forced to look at the overall context. I know you want to make this about you, but you aren't that important, neither am I for that matter.

Think about it.

[Calm]

I haven't looked it up......my time has been somewhat limited of late making presentations both stake and to non members.

If he has "often issued diatribes" etc., then it shouldn't have taken you much more time to have found it then it did to post this post.

[mercyngrace]

I'm still waiting for a reference to the verses where Christ walks on the other side of the road to avoid sinners....

Cal, maybe you could post instructions for using the search engine at lds.org .

[Jeff K.]

I showed you the verses, you called them an esoteric interpretation, I disagreed.