Mission, Stake And Ward Goals-Why Do We Need Them?

[Duncan]

We have ward conference in a few weeks and I got some emails from our Bishop whom I fully support and love, and a request is made to have ward goals, i.e. baptisms, HT and VT and the like-but why do we need any kind of goal beyond eternal life and becoming more Christlike? why need we need all these mission and vision statements and write ups and stuff? why can't we just go to church and become more spiritual? it seems like a business sometimes with all these numbers and follow ups and meetings!

[KevinG]

Goals help us get around to acting. I deal with them a lot with strategic planning and while there is nothing magic in a goal, setting them and working to achieve them can provide forward motion to something that might otherwise wait forever despite our good intentions.

It is a delecate balance to use them effectively without over-relying on numbers as an indicator of how well we are doing. This could lead to people doing the wrong things to get the right numbers (inflating numbers, rushing baptisms, etc.)

[cinepro]

Is there a difference between not having goals, and having goals that no one cares about?

Let us know.

Edited November 3, 2011 by cinepro

[diglot]

We have ward conference in a few weeks and I got some emails from our Bishop whom I fully support and love, and a request is made to have ward goals, i.e. baptisms, HT and VT and the like-but why do we need any kind of goal beyond eternal life and becoming more Christlike? why need we need all these mission and vision statements and write ups and stuff? why can't we just go to church and become more spiritual? it seems like a business sometimes with all these numbers and follow ups and meetings!

Heh, if you think your ward is beginning to be run like a business, you should visit an evangelical Church! Some of them really are run like a business. That was actually a key reason I stopped going to this evangelical church that my in-laws attend. I mean, the first word that enters my mind when thinking of that place isn't "church", but "business" (and "fake").

Edited November 3, 2011 by diglot

[Duncan]

Is there a difference between not having goals, and having goals that no one cares about?

Let us know.

haha! true! now that is going up on facebook!

[Storm Rider]

We have ward conference in a few weeks and I got some emails from our Bishop whom I fully support and love, and a request is made to have ward goals, i.e. baptisms, HT and VT and the like-but why do we need any kind of goal beyond eternal life and becoming more Christlike? why need we need all these mission and vision statements and write ups and stuff? why can't we just go to church and become more spiritual? it seems like a business sometimes with all these numbers and follow ups and meetings!

Hear, hear! We have too much of Covey running around and attempting to implement business management styles in an ecclesiastical position. Teach Christ, become like Christ, serve as Christ, love as Christ, and all will be well.

[frankenstein]

[sarcasm]because numbers even wrongly reported that support the goal denoted quality, concern, and righteousness.[/sarcasm]

On my mission I reported numbers below the preformance of everyone else, but I know that every discussion I reported was in someone's living room and began and ended with prayer

[KevinG]

Hear, hear! We have too much of Covey running around and attempting to implement business management styles in an ecclesiastical position. Teach Christ, become like Christ, serve as Christ, love as Christ, and all will be well.

I hear complaints about Covey trying to teach businesses Mormonism.

As a certified 7 Habits trainer and a High Priest I don't see much overlap other than Covey poaching inspirational stories from talks for his books and LDS poaching Covey inspirational stories for their talks.

[KevinG]

[sarcasm]because numbers even wrongly reported that support the goal denoted quality, concern, and righteousness.[/sarcasm]

On my mission I reported numbers below the preformance of everyone else, but I know that every discussion I reported was in someone's living room and began and ended with prayer

Good on 'ya.

[CV75]

We have ward conference in a few weeks and I got some emails from our Bishop whom I fully support and love, and a request is made to have ward goals, i.e. baptisms, HT and VT and the like-but why do we need any kind of goal beyond eternal life and becoming more Christlike? why need we need all these mission and vision statements and write ups and stuff? why can't we just go to church and become more spiritual? it seems like a business sometimes with all these numbers and follow ups and meetings!

From Luke 14:25-33, I would say it has to do with counting the cost of being a disciple of Christ. Accounting for it in a plan is a way of confessing the intents of our hearts—for example, what faith, inspiration, willingness to sacrifice and other wherewithal do we have to bring 1, 5, or 10 people into the Church? Unless anyone knows how to become exalted in one step, we have to do it line upon line, step by step, with some specific intent and awareness of what we are doing. Writing it down helps with this, so plans, journals, etc. (some of which have become scripture) are an inspired means to accomplish things (Alma 37:7).

“And there went great multitudes with him: and he turned, and said unto them, If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple. And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple. For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he have sufficient to finish it? Lest haply, after he hath laid the foundation, and is not able to finish it, all that behold it begin to mock him, Saying, This man began to build, and was not able to finish. Or what king, going to make war against another king, sitteth not down first, and consulteth whether he be able with ten thousand to meet him that cometh against him with twenty thousand? Or else, while the other is yet a great way off, he sendeth an ambassage, and desireth conditions of peace. So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple.”

[Kenngo1969]

Moroni 6:4

4 And after they had been received unto baptism, and were wrought upon and cleansed by the power of the Holy Ghost, they were numbered among the people of the church of Christ; and their names were taken, that they might be remembered and nourished by the good word of God, to keep them in the right way, to keep them continually watchful unto prayer, relying alone upon the merits of Christ, who was the author and the finisher of their faith.

Now, don't get me wrong: the numbers aren't the most important thing; behind every number there's a name, and behind every name there is a person. But the whole "name-taking" thing strikes me as a rather administrative, somewhat-numerical thing to do. That does not, however, make it, ipso facto, a bad thing ... as long as we remember the priority of person, name, number.

[KevinG]

Edited November 3, 2011 by DaddyG

[DispensatorMysteriorum]

Baptismal goals, in my opinion, are the absolute worst. They don't even qualify as goals. Goals should be something that YOU can control personally, and that isn't dependent open the agency of another person. I don't care who feels otherwise about baptismal goals. As for me and my house, we won't participate in them even if the prophet himself asks us to.

[frankenstein]

A numbers based motivation is ripe for misuse. As I understand it, in the North West United States, at one point in history missionaries were submitting baptismal records for names they got off of grave stones - this was done to meet "goals".

I have heard complaints from post 1980's missionaries who served in Japan, one missionary I met said he spoke with a GA about what was done in the 1980's, the GA is alleged to have replied "From those baptisms is where the Priesthood leaders came from". So while the the "methods" used created some problems it also created good.

[Jack]

Hear, hear! We have too much of Covey running around and attempting to implement business management styles in an ecclesiastical position. Teach Christ, become like Christ, serve as Christ, love as Christ, and all will be well.

Try doing that and you will be chastized for not following he manuals when you teach, trying to be "Mr. Perfect" which is impossible, trying to curry favor and seeking to be a GA and being too friendly to those who aren't good enough.

[KevinG]

Hear, hear! We have too much of Covey running around and attempting to implement business management styles in an ecclesiastical position. Teach Christ, become like Christ, serve as Christ, love as Christ, and all will be well.

Try doing that and you will be chastized for not following he manuals when you teach, trying to be "Mr. Perfect" which is impossible, trying to curry favor and seeking to be a GA and being too friendly to those who aren't good enough.

I had a Business professor at BYU (same department as Covey for a time) who mused in class that we shoud be seeking to run businessness more like the church rather than trying to bring business practices into the church. He was rewarded with a calling as mission president. Heh.

I liked being his Teaching Assistant. I think I would have enjoyed being a missionary under his leadership.

[Kenngo1969]

Has anybody mentioned yet that President Monson has an MBA from BYU?

[KevinG]

Has anybody mentioned yet that President Monson has an MBA from BYU?

I think he predated Covey by a few years.

A small dose of personal success literature and a few good business practices (like accounting) are good for the church. We just don't need to rely too much on the arm of the flesh when it comes to teaching by the Spirit.

[cinepro]

I had a Business professor at BYU (same department as Covey for a time) who mused in class that we shoud be seeking to run businessness more like the church rather than trying to bring business practices into the church. He was rewarded with a calling as mission president. Heh.

From what I hear, Church finances were in pretty bad shape in the 1960's, and if Elder Tanner hadn't come along and helped the Church start being run "more like a business", we'd all be cleaning our own chapels by now.

Edited November 4, 2011 by cinepro

[KevinG]

From what I hear, Church finances were in pretty bad shape in the 1960's, and if Elder Tanner hadn't come along and helped the Church start being run "more like a business", we'd all be cleaning our own chapels by now.

Yeah I'd hate to have to clean... wait.

(I want the brethren (see the Holy of Holies) to be prophets and the bureacats (see the big white tower next to the temple) to be the best darn business people we can recruit.)

Edited November 4, 2011 by DaddyG

[cdowis]

Is there a difference between not having goals, and having goals that no one cares about?

What about goals that we do not meet, and then feel guilty.

I think I should have a personal goal and see how close I can get to it. I want to go to the temple every week, and do the work for my ancestors. Without that goal I found that I was lucky to go once a month. I found that if I can be motivated by a goal, it will make me do things I otherwise won't do.

A goal can make us get into a habit -- I will give out a pass-along card at least once a week. I then look for an opportunity to talk with someone and give them a card. Without that goal it just won't happen.

It does not make sense to feel guity for not meeting a goal, but to be happy that I am doing something that I otherwise would not do.

Edited November 5, 2011 by cdowis