stevedallas Posted October 28, 2011 Author Posted October 28, 2011 Hello SteveDallas...It's 12:50 a.m. here on the Oregon coast... but I couldn't stop reading this thead. I want to encourage you not to give up... and, I want to share an experience with you that I had not too long ago. I've told this before so I hope other posters will bear with me...It was Oct '09 and for a few weeks before gen conf I had had an uneasy feeling about some of the posts here on the board. I can't say I had "doubts" per se because I'm fortunate to have a strong testimony, but at times you will note that our critics post some thoughts and views that can give one pause and cause one to go to the scriptures and other LDS writings for clarity for ourselves.Anyway, conference arrived (I love GC too), and I as just settling into my big wingback chair, listening to the Choir and thinking to myself how beautiful was the music...Suddenly out of nowhere, I heard that "still small voice" speak to my heart and mind as if someone was standing right next to me... "Do not be afraid... the Gospel is correct... stay faithful, stay true."Can you imagine how that thrilled me so... that tears came to my eyes and I thanked Heavenly Father for that witness by the Spirit. So unexpected... and so comforting. I watched GC with a deeper sense of gratitude for my testimony... for the gospel... for my blessings everyday...Again, I encourage you to be patient... and do not be afraid...GGthank you so much for sharing your experience. Maybe someday I will experience that.
thesometimesaint Posted October 28, 2011 Posted October 28, 2011 Altersteve:http://maxwellinstitute.byu.edu/publications/books/?bookid=73&chapid=890
altersteve Posted October 28, 2011 Posted October 28, 2011 Altersteve:http://maxwellinstit...d=73&chapid=890Thank you, this was very interesting.
rpn Posted October 29, 2011 Posted October 29, 2011 In the New Testament, Jesus says if you want to know of His doctrine, you need to live it. It took Brigham Young 3 years of investigation to get a testimony. My dh didn't get a testimony of Joseph Smith until he entered the training center for his mission about 18 months after he joined the church. If you have a desire to get spiritual confirmation and you live the teachings of Jesus to the best of your ability, you will at some point get the testimony you seek. Don't give up because it is hard to match the logic of your professional training. A confirmation of the spirit means trusting Him. (May I suggest you read "When Your Prayers Seem Unanswered" by Michael Wilcox.) 2
Messenger Posted October 29, 2011 Posted October 29, 2011 You know I dont use the forum that much anymore because of the way its been run in the last 3 months. So, once in a while I check the posts to see if I can contribute a thing or two to try and balance out the few bafoons. I am amazed and happy that I dont see any bafoons posting on your thread yet, and I have not seen this turn political with the mods breaking their own rules for simply to satisfy hit counters. "Wow" ... that's all I have to say about that.That being said, I have a lot of compassion for your situation. I am 50 years old myself, and there have been a few times in my life where I seemingly lost my testimony. I have learned the hard way that if I dont share it, at least once in a while during fast and testimony meeting, that it begins to fade and be reduced to the mere events of my testimony, without the feeling anymore. A desire to have it return and some effort in prayer will restore it. You may be called to share your testimony (either by someone in body or by the spirit), and when you dont think you have enough to share, share what you have, you'll be amazed at the results.Like so many things, our minds can become the world, much like this forum has become in the last few months. When we reach that point, we decide if we turn back to the things that matter, and fill our minds with scripture, testimony, and service, or we dont leaving us deeper in the hole which we dig for ourselves.
stevedallas Posted October 29, 2011 Author Posted October 29, 2011 thank you.As to following the precepts of the Gospel, let me say this: at 51, I have never smoked, done drugs, or drank alcohol (thanks to an abusive alcoholic father). I have never liked hot drinks. This is not for any high values, it is simply because I hate drinks I have to sip. I drink because I am thirsty, and sipping is not productive. I love God with all my heart and know He loves me. I am typically a happy person who will do anything I can to help people. I am a very open Believer. Were you to walk into my office at the law firm, you would see a large Bible on a stand, Christian Artwork, and other tell-tale signs. I often wear Christian-based ties to work. Again, I want people to know I love God because I want them to hold me to a higher standard. So, do I follow the precepts of the Gospel? I dunno. I guess I follow many of them.
rpn Posted October 29, 2011 Posted October 29, 2011 (edited) duplicate Edited October 29, 2011 by rpn
rpn Posted October 29, 2011 Posted October 29, 2011 Not doing the things prohibited by the Word of Wisdom and loving God and displaying the Bible in your office is NOT the same as living His precepts fully. You'll want to live the law of tithes and offerings, fast monthly, serve others, accept a calling (you can do things in scouts without actually being a member, for instance and sometimes other things like singing in the choir), be 100% honest and sexually pure, honor your father and mother, keep the sabbath day holy, share your testimony (obviously not one that Joseph Smith is a prophet yet, but you do apparently believe you have a testimony of the divinity of Christ and that He is resurrected and the Savior of all mankind. You may or may not have a testimony of healthy living (hard to tell whether the wofw decisions were testimony or just a decision). etc.), and a whole host of guidance (daily scriptures and prayer family and personal, self-reliance, life-long learning, regular service, acting on all things you are prompted to do good, controlling anger and selfishness and desire for control of others, FHE etc.) that modern prophets suggest might help you develop the desire and self-discipline to fully submit your body (arms legs tongue ears heart) and its desires and appetites fully to Heavenly Father so that you have no more disposition to do evil but to do good continually, in the course of your daily comings and goings. I'd suggest you live entirely for one year as though you were a fully faithful member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and then ask again. Take the step of faith into the unknown. Then you will have acted upon His word and will be entitled to His scriptural promise.
stevedallas Posted October 29, 2011 Author Posted October 29, 2011 (edited) wow. I have never had anyone tell me that I am not living His teachings before. Not sure how to take that. Edited October 30, 2011 by stevedallas
Garden Girl Posted October 29, 2011 Posted October 29, 2011 wow. I have never had anyone tell me that I am living His teachings before. Not sure how to take that.Hello stevedallas... I think you meant you've never had someone tell you that you were not living His teachings...I think rpn could have worded that a little better... of course you are living the precepts of Christ. But there are some additional things LDS do that would also be living the precepts fully, things that LDS believe are necessary in our daily lives, including participating actively in Church, living the Law of Chastity, the Law of Tithing, how we treat our fellow man, attending the temple, etcBut we too recognize as important the way you live your life and those things that you do to live according to the Saviors teachings.All good wishes on a beautiful fall afternoon... GG
TAO Posted October 29, 2011 Posted October 29, 2011 (edited) wow. I have never had anyone tell me that I am living His teachings before. Not sure how to take that.Nah... it's not that you aren't living his teachings... it's that there is much more to learn and do... church isn't stagnate, really... it's that there is always more cool things to do... there are many many things to do and become =). None of us ever perfects it here on Earth. And God gives us blessings as we choose to follow him, as we slowly become more righteous people (hopefully) =D. Edited October 29, 2011 by TAO
rpn Posted October 30, 2011 Posted October 30, 2011 I'm sorry. I just took the things you mentioned in response to the NT suggestion that if you want to know, you should fully live. I didn't mean to insult you.
stevedallas Posted October 30, 2011 Author Posted October 30, 2011 its all good. I actually asked for it, didn;t I? I asked for suggestions and you gave me some. I should not have been discouraged by your comments.Please, suggest away
Thankful Posted October 31, 2011 Posted October 31, 2011 Many people struggle with belief. We all have different spiritual gifts. Being told it is our fault if we don't yet know something is not always kind, true, or helpful. Doubting is not the same as sin. I hope we can love enough to not deepen the pain of those who question by assuming it is due to sin or not living right. Certainly sin can lessen access to the Holy Ghost. But there are many reasons people may struggle with belief.Sometimes we have to make a decision to move forward even when we don't have all the answers. Choosing to act even when we have limited knowledge gives the Spirit more opportunity to testify.I personally don't get hung up on scripture wording because I believe God revealed the Book of Mormon in concepts rather than word for word exactly. So then Joseph had to figure out how to give word to something complex that he'd been taught. Like if two people watched a silent video-they saw the same thing, but would likely use different words to describe the images. I may be wrong or right on this. But this understanding allows me to trust, not worry about B o M language, revisions, different accounts, etc. It's just how I've made peace with similar challenges.I respect your humility and open hearted approach Steve.
stevedallas Posted October 31, 2011 Author Posted October 31, 2011 I made a mistake coming here. Nevo and Mola have shown me that, in looking for God and "home", I need not look in the LDS Church. Now I am not sure where to look.I wrote a poem once, after a breakup years ago, where I wrote "I wished for you and you came true, I wish that I had known......that you would leave me after all and leave me all alone.........I wish I knew just what to do somewhere, sometime somehow, but most of all I wish I knew just what to wish for now....That is how I feel. I wish I knew what to wish for now.Thank all of you for your comments. I am sorry I wasted your time.
bluebell Posted November 1, 2011 Posted November 1, 2011 I made a mistake coming here. Nevo and Mola have shown me that, in looking for God and "home", I need not look in the LDS Church.Now I am not sure where to look.I wrote a poem once, after a breakup years ago, where I wrote "I wished for you and you came true, I wish that I had known......that you would leave me after all and leave me all alone.........I wish I knew just what to do somewhere, sometime somehow, but most of all I wish I knew just what to wish for now....That is how I feel. I wish I knew what to wish for now.Thank all of you for your comments. I am sorry I wasted your time.I'm not sure i understand. Out of all the good that you've spoken of in the church-the choir, general conference, etc.-two people out of all those positive examples have proven to you that the church can't be of God?
stevedallas Posted November 1, 2011 Author Posted November 1, 2011 I'm not sure i understand. Out of all the good that you've spoken of in the church-the choir, general conference, etc.-two people out of all those positive examples have proven to you that the church can't be of God?No. Not at all. Just that I am not welcome
bluebell Posted November 1, 2011 Posted November 1, 2011 No. Not at all. Just that I am not welcomeI'm still not sure i understand.How can the 'unwelcomness' of two people mean more than all of those who have welcomed you?Sometimes members of the church react a bit like peter with the sword who smote off the ear of the man in the garden-they think they are doing what's best, but it's not until the Lord has to come behind them and heal the hurt they caused that they see their way wasn't His. Peter was wrong, but he was still a true disciple of Christ-just one who still needed to change his ways a bit.(and i have no idea what happened between you, nevo, and mola, so i can't make any judgments on that specific situation. I'm just speaking in general terms of those times when someone who espouses a belief system doesn't seem to be the best representative of it)
Garden Girl Posted November 1, 2011 Posted November 1, 2011 Hello SteveDallas...I'm so sorry you feel that way... did you not see the posts here that were supportive of you... did you miss mine (#61)...I welcome you... as do others here... so please don't close any doors. Stay here... there's good people here. Sometimes on a board words can come across as more harsh than we mean... tone of voice is missing; facial expressions are missing.Most important of all... don't let a couple of posters turn you away. Think of your reaction to gen conference... to the choir, and the other good feelings you have. Do that for the old woman who lives by the sea with a pushy cat named Bob... I encourage you... and send you positive thoughts, energy, and prayers...Garden Girl
stevedallas Posted November 1, 2011 Author Posted November 1, 2011 I am again humbled by you two.Please forgive my impulsive reaction to hurt feelings
ERayR Posted November 1, 2011 Posted November 1, 2011 I made a mistake coming here. Nevo and Mola have shown me that, in looking for God and "home", I need not look in the LDS Church.Now I am not sure where to look.I wrote a poem once, after a breakup years ago, where I wrote "I wished for you and you came true, I wish that I had known......that you would leave me after all and leave me all alone.........I wish I knew just what to do somewhere, sometime somehow, but most of all I wish I knew just what to wish for now....That is how I feel. I wish I knew what to wish for now.Thank all of you for your comments. I am sorry I wasted your time.No I think you didn't get the correct message. What they did show you was that looking on a disscussion board was not the way to do it. If you really want to know the LDS Church and its people go to a church and mingle with the 98% of the LDS people who don't frequent nor want to frequent a discussion board.
bluebell Posted November 1, 2011 Posted November 1, 2011 Please forgive my impulsive reaction to hurt feelingsI've been there before, no worries.
stevedallas Posted November 1, 2011 Author Posted November 1, 2011 No I think you didn't get the correct message. What they did show you was that looking on a disscussion board was not the way to do it. If you really want to know the LDS Church and its people go to a church and mingle with the 98% of the LDS people who don't frequent nor want to frequent a discussion board.Not sure what you are saying, but what it appears is that Mormons who join a discussion board are not required to follow LDS teachings like the teachings of L Tom Perry at the last GC. I believe Mormons should follow those teachings no matter where they are. And for someone who has questions regarding certain aspects of the LDS Faith, a board like this is awesome because those issues are discussed. Most regular members would not know how to answer my questions.
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