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Rev. Jeffress Is On The Case: Romney'S A Cultist


Stargazer

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And your mother wears Army boots.

Here ya go.

>Yawn<

The broken record has skipped again, and I don't even know why this is news except that for some reason it is. And in Sunday School today our instructor brought this up to the class, whose reaction was largely "...so what else is new?" One member made clear he was all for the dear Reverend shooting his mouth off, because when he was a ward mission leader back when some similar garbage came trotting out, it increased interest in the Church and increased the stake's conversion rate. Let's all send fan mail to the good Rev.

After this brief diversion we had a nice discussion on the Atonement of Jesus Christ and what it meant to us. Turns out it means a great deal, a lot more than it mattered that some Southern Baptists are plug ignorant of plain facts.

Of course, I had to put my 2 cents into the fray, but in my blog, not in class. In case anyone wants to check it, feel free.

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This is pretty much par for the course. I would be more worried if Pastor Jeffries was warmly endorsing Rommey as "one of his own kind."

Glenn

Good point...I agree with the OP >Yawn<, would be a better topic if discussed outside of Politics, and there is something upcoming in SLC that will allow us to discuss it without breaking the rules on politics.

http://www.compassionateboldness.com/

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You are going to like this one, Stargazer:

If Mitt Romney had run for governor of South Carolina against outspoken conservative evangelical Mark Sanford, Dallas First Baptist Church pastor (and famous Rick Perry fan) Robert Jeffress would have loudly campaigned for Sanford over the “cultist” Mitt Romney.

If Mitt Romney had run for senate from Nevada against outspoken evangelical John Ensign, Robert Jeffress would have been by Ensign’s side, telling Christians that if they were truly “born again,” they’d vote for Ensign.

If Mitt Romney had run for senate from Louisiana, against Catholic David Vitter, Robert Jeffress might have had a tougher choice, but the odds are that he’d hold his nose and campaign for a Catholic over a Mormon.

And in each case he would have been shockingly, embarrassingly wrong.

Mark Sanford disappeared and pursued his alleged true love in Argentina, John Ensign had an affair with the wife of one of his top aides, and David Vitter was a client of the famous “D.C. Madam.” Religious affiliation is no guarantor of virtue.

Pastor Jeffress also has said that

By his reasoning then, overwhelmingly Mormon Utah (the most religiously homogenous state in the nation) must be some sort of hellhole, a blasted wasteland in the heart of America.

Not so fast. Utah has a lower divorce rate, higher median household income, and substantially lower unemployment than my beloved home state of Tennessee, which also happens to be the home of Pastor Jeffress’s Southern Baptist Convention as well as the evangelical music and publishing industries.

Religious affiliation appears to be no guarantor of earthly success.

http://www.washingto...KAvZL_blog.html

I really like this guy:

In my years as an evangelical conservative lawyer and activist, I have learned (and lived) the painful reality that we evangelicals are all too often no better - and sometimes much worse - than the very people we seek to convert. If God’s strength is truly made perfect in weakness, then we surely give God many occasions to show his power. The gracious gift of knowledge of God and relationship with Him should fill us with humility - not arrogance.

An excellent point:

If religious tests dominate the evangelical world, candidates will have an incentive to wear the trappings of faith - even if their heart lies elsewhere.

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I've decided that I am going to define a faith as a theological cult if it does not have the name of Christ in its title demonstrating its lack of commitment to following Christ and lacks a priesthood line of authority as has always been present in historical Christianity.

So Baptists belong to a theological cult.

My definition makes as much sense as his does and is as accurate in describing their beliefs.

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Another Evangelical speaks up:

http://www.washingto...6PqZL_blog.html

As a boy from West Virginia, I disliked the negative stereotypes about my state. Nearly as bad was when you met a West Virginian determined to live up to them. Bigots are incorrigible enough, but encouraging them by playing to type empowers them.

A bigot can be an inexcusable ignoramus who does not understand a group, but insists on opining about them. Another kind of bigot insists on applying irrelevant standards to a person. This is not excusable even if the standards are relevant in a different situation.....

This evangelical pastor did not suggest that he disagreed with Romney’s views on life and marriage or any other religious issue with political implications. Instead, he attacked Mormonism for not being evangelical, Romney for not being born again, and Mormonism as a cult.

This is bigotry buttressed by irrelevance fortified with invincible ignorance.....

To add insult to bigotry, the pastor decided to name call by saying Mormonism is a cult. The use of cult to describe the Mormon faith is foolish and offensive in a political context.

The word cult has many meanings, including a technical religious one. The Mormon Church is not “standard” historic Christianity as Mormons point out in their witness. They think they have something new and valuable to say religiously.

Most of the public does not think doctrine, but danger when they hear the term cult. He imagines scary folk living in compounds drinking Kool-aid, not Harry Reid or Mitt Romney.

In that popular sense, Mormonism is not a cult and should scare no American. Mormons have been faithful citizens, dying in our wars for republican values. Does Rick Perry’s pastor friend acknowledge this truth? Can a Mormon die for the Republic in battle, but still not serve as commander in the White House?.....

Worse is the impact of bigotry on my Mormon neighbor. It is a betrayal of the love Jesus commanded us to show. If I can love my enemy, surely I can easily love the Mormon next door. I hate the pain caused my Mormon neighbor by ignorance and bigotry.

My Mormon friends do not complain or become defensive. Like the Christ, my experience has been resignation and love when my Mormon friends see slander.

Mormons saw their first prophet murdered by an American mob, but still they loyally serve a Republic whose laws have often failed them. They created a paradise in a wilderness and great literature and a first-rate university against all odds.

Evangelicals recognize and admire this achievement. We must do as we have always done and vote the platform and the person and not the pulpit.

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I just went to the Governors website and told him what I thought of letting a guy like that introduce him. Its been two days, and I havent got one response. Well, that pretty much sums it up for me. One down and several more to go. Its better to find out now than later.

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I like how flustered and dumb founded the News Anchors became at his blatant and unappologizing bigotry.

what is the bigotry you think occured? Is a LDS person who refers to the Catholic Church as "The Church of the Devil" a bigot? Is Joseph Smith a bigot because of what he claimed was told to him about all other churches? Is a Mormon a bigot for saying "ssm isn't marriage and ssm is a tool of the Devil"? Are LDS persons, who refer to others as "apostates", bigots? Are LDS persons, who say that other Churches are not true, bigots?

What makes a person a "bigot"? Are religious persons entitled to express their religious opinions?

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http://www.theblaze.com/stories/pastor-defends-mormonism-cult-comment-herman-cain-says-hes-not-running-for-theologian-in-chief/

Go down to the bottom clip with Father Jonathan Morris. I think he makes a great point but..... "LDS are not Christian because they do not baptize in the name of the Father, Son and the Holy Ghost". Ok... I think that guy is wildly mis-informed.

It is almost comical to see their justification for excluding the LDS faith from being Christians. I have not seen a good reason yet.

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what is the bigotry you think occured? Is a LDS person who refers to the Catholic Church as "The Church of the Devil" a bigot? Is Joseph Smith a bigot because of what he claimed was told to him about all other churches? Is a Mormon a bigot for saying "ssm isn't marriage and ssm is a tool of the Devil"? Are LDS persons, who refer to others as "apostates", bigots? Are LDS persons, who say that other Churches are not true, bigots?

What makes a person a "bigot"? Are religious persons entitled to express their religious opinions?

Who cares.

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Jeffrers just admitted on MSNBC that Mormons are NOT a cult in the traditional Websters Dictionary definition. Simply saying, he has his own personal defination of what a Christian is and what a cult is. So, when people here him, they have to understand that he also believes that there are some evangelists that are not Christians he says. Webster, he is not!

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Post 16 indicates you care about what was said. Zak last post indicates he cares. So unless similar statements from lds are also bigotry, then otherwise offended lds are just hypocrites.

I clearly do not care. That why is why said "Who cares". I especially have no interest in discussing what a bigot is or is not with you.

Good day.

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http://www.theblaze....ogian-in-chief/

Go down to the bottom clip with Father Jonathan Morris. I think he makes a great point but..... "LDS are not Christian because they do not baptize in the name of the Father, Son and the Holy Ghost". Ok... I think that guy is wildly mis-informed.

It is almost comical to see their justification for excluding the LDS faith from being Christians. I have not seen a good reason yet.

I don't know if he means it this way or not, but the Catholic Church issued an official statement awhile back IIRC that they do not accept our baptism even though the words are right, because we mean different things by those words....IOW when we say those words, we do not mean the standard Trinitarian belief of three persons in one being of one substance.

Not accepting our baptism may mean that officially they do not accept us as Christians, as part of the body of Christ....it would seem so to me from what the Catechism says. This does not mean that all Catholics feel the same way. All the Catholics I know personally have told me they think LDS are Christian, IIRC.

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Stargazer,

As a member of the SBC myself, in general I was very disappointed with the view he portrayed. IMO, his usage of "cult" was a tactic that attempted to polarize EV's against Romney and for his political choice of Perry. Given the negative media coverage, it may very well have back fired on him.

Regardless though, I think Jeffress gets it wrong on a number of points, these two, IMO are the most serious.

From the article

"We understand Mormonism is not Christianity and thus the difference between somebody who's moral and good like Mitt Romney and a true born-again follower of Christ,"

The usage of "We", is quite bothersome. He elicits the Southern Baptist Convention and then elects to speak for us all. A bit pompous and misappropriated on his part. Jeffress holds no position with the SBC, not even a member of the Executive Committe, so his flippant usage of "We" is brazenly misplaced.

The other issue, is that he is acting as though he has the power to determine Romney's relationship with Christ. This is the one that chaps my cheeks. That is Christ's job to determine, not his and I don't imagine many SBC members would disagree with my sentiment there.

I am glad, that he claims his statements were made as a "private citizen". However, I think that is more of a duck on his part that is a response to some of the pressure he has been given. Initially he didn't mind making his comments public, nor did he mind tossing the SBC into his "private" comments.

All that said, the SBC does have an article from the "Baptist Press" news division on Jeffress' comments. If you want to get a more inline presentation from the SBC, you and any interested LDS might want to give it a read.

http://www.bpnews.ne...ws.asp?id=36303

Regardless, as the election comes closer, I don't imagine this is the last we will see of pejoratives slung at LDS. It's sad that political motivations are paraded about in a very poor disguise as spiritual motivations.

Regards,

Mudcat

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Stargazer,

Regardless though, I think Jeffress gets it wrong on a number of points, these two, IMO are the most serious.

The other issue, is that he is acting as though he has the power to determine Romney's relationship with Christ. This is the one that chaps my cheeks. That is Christ's job to determine, not his and I don't imagine many SBC members would disagree with my sentiment there.

Regards,

Mudcat

I agree as this is what really frosted me this morning when I saw him just relishing every moment of media time he was getting to rail against Mormonism... does he really believe he is authorized to judge who is and who is not a Christian? The arrogance of his attitude as he spoke was sickening. He was just in his glory speaking for the "We" that you mentioned... citing that 1,000 SBC pastors had labeled Mormonism a cult... As if that makes it so...

Not only that, he's a hypocrite... telling people they should vote for a born-again Christian like Perry vs. a non-Christian like Romney... but when pressed about who he would vote for... Romney or Obama... he said he would vote for Romney (instead of the Christian, Obama). Hmmm.

GG

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I agree as this is what really frosted me this morning when I saw him just relishing every moment of media time he was getting to rail against Mormonism... does he really believe he is authorized to judge who is and who is not a Christian?

I don't actually think Jeffress believes he is such a judge. I think he is just letting his politics get the better of him. It certainly isn't a flattering thing to see.

The arrogance of his attitude as he spoke was sickening. He was just in his glory speaking for the "We" that you mentioned... citing that 1,000 SBC pastors had labeled Mormonism a cult... As if that makes it so...

The only quote I am aware of that way is when he said, " The Southern Baptist Convention, which is the largest Protestant denomination in the world, has officially labeled Mormonism as a cult." Certainly many SBs feel that way but not all.

If he did actually appeal to 1,000 SBC pastors... I would like to see that list he is pulling from.

Not only that, he's a hypocrite... telling people they should vote for a born-again Christian like Perry vs. a non-Christian like Romney... but when pressed about who he would vote for... Romney or Obama... he said he would vote for Romney (instead of the Christian, Obama). Hmmm.

Jeffress is a political conservative for moral reasons (pro-life.. that sort of thing).I would imagine Obama's stances on a number of issues distance him further from Jeffress view than Romney would. It's political.

As to Obama being a Christian? Well we haven't heard Jeffress make a "righteous" judgement on the matter in the news. Likely we will have to wait till the general election for that divine thought.

Mudcat

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