Oh No! We'S A Cult!

[MatthewG]

Absolute no politics. But Romney didn't get an endorsement cause he's "In a cult".

Pastor who endorsed Perry on Friday says Romney is a cultist

Such stupidity in the 21st century, to me, is mind blowing. He is part of the SBC so I shouldn't expect anything less from a group of Forest Gumps.

If by "Forest Gumps" you mean mentally handicapped, that's rather offensive. = mods

[Calm]

Such stupidity in the 21st century, to me, is mind blowing. He is part of the SBC so I shouldn't expect anything less from a group of Forest Gumps.

Not all SBC's feel the same way......

[KevinG]

Could be worse. Romney could be a Republican.

Oops... Never mind. Political.

(Edited on account of an advanced case of offensisensitivity and a missing funny bone).

Edited October 8, 2011 by DaddyG

[MatthewG]

Could be worse. Romney could be a Democrat.

Oops... Never mind. Political.

So delete it. I find that offensive.

[MatthewG]

Not all SBC's feel the same way......

As an organization the SBC does apparently, from the article above:

Labeling Mormonism as a cult does not put Jeffress outside of the Southern Baptist mainstream. The denomination officially recognizes Romney's church as a cult, and has done so for years.

Now I understand individuals IN the SBC may have a brain cell or 2 and don't believe that, but their opinion isn't strong enough to warrant a policy change.

[Sevenbak]

In related news, this week Pat Robertson called Romney "an outstanding Christian." http://www.christianpost.com/news/pat-robertson-mitt-romney-an-outstanding-christian-57017/

Which EV leader will win the day? ...stay tuned, it's going to be a fun ride.

[MatthewG]

In related news, this week Pat Robertson called Romney "an outstanding Christian." http://www.christian...hristian-57017/

Which EV leader will win the day? ...stay tuned, it's going to be a fun ride.

LOL, doesn't pat robertson own or isn't he at least affiliated with the CBN?

[KevinG]

Could be worse. Romney could be a Republican.

You know now that I think about it. Its funnier this way.

[Sevenbak]

LOL, doesn't pat robertson own or isn't he at least affiliated with the CBN?

Yep. Oh the irony.

[Mudcat]

Absolute no politics. But Romney didn't get an endorsement cause he's "In a cult".

Pastor who endorsed Perry on Friday says Romney is a cultist

Such stupidity in the 21st century, to me, is mind blowing. He is part of the SBC so I shouldn't expect anything less from a group of Forest Gumps.

Coming from a person who holds to a faith that would declare both Perry and Jeffress are apostates at best, I don't see much of a complaint to be lodged.

I don't understand why you feel an Evangelical Pastor would endorse a non-Evangelical candidate, if there was a good EV candidate in the hole.

[Lost in Ohio]

I don't think anyone has an issue with an evangelical pastor endorsing another evangelical. The issue is why is it necessary to do so via the sensationalistic and frankly condescending reference to another's faith. While we may not consider Perry or Jeffriess to embrace a faith that contains the fullness of the gospel we never the less honor, without disparagement, their choice. It's the obnoxious, self-serving, self-righteous, smug arrogance of the remark that bothers people.

[MatthewG]

I don't think anyone has an issue with an evangelical pastor endorsing another evangelical. The issue is why is it necessary to do so via the sensationalistic and frankly condescending reference to another's faith. While we may not consider Perry or Jeffriess to embrace a faith that contains the fullness of the gospel we never the less honor, without disparagement, their choice. It's the obnoxious, self-serving, self-righteous, smug arrogance of the remark that bothers people.

Exactly.

[MatthewG]

Coming from a person who holds to a faith that would declare both Perry and Jeffress are apostates at best, I don't see much of a complaint to be lodged.

I don't understand why you feel an Evangelical Pastor would endorse a non-Evangelical candidate, if there was a good EV candidate in the hole.

Quiet frankly I'd just leave religion out of politics all together. I could careless if Perry is JW, evangelical, Mormon, Catholic or a Jew. It's not important. It's the public bashing and discrediting someone simply because of their religion that I have a problem with. Plus isn't this whole thing so 2 centuries ago? My mind is blown on a daily basis on the ignorance of people. They have such MASSIVE information available to them 24/7 and yet they cling to garbage from the 19th century. "Watch for that guy he's a MORMON, he's going to steal your wife and make her his slave!" or "Watch out for that guy, he's MORMON he's in a devil worshiping cult!!"

It's just utter nonsense.

[Ron Beron]

Coming from a person who holds to a faith that would declare both Perry and Jeffress are apostates at best, I don't see much of a complaint to be lodged.

I don't understand why you feel an Evangelical Pastor would endorse a non-Evangelical candidate, if there was a good EV candidate in the hole.

I think the problem arises because it really shouldn't matter. We are electing a president not a prophet. I can understand how a EV would promote a like minded person to represent the county. It is even more understandable because the pastors mindset is purely religious and not political, but because of the separation of church and state it is a very sensitive issue that many would like to exasperate.

[cdowis]

It would be interesting to get Rob Bowman's take on this discussion, since he was the "official" anti-cultist for the SBC.

[MatthewG]

It would be interesting to get Rob Bowman's take on this discussion, since he was the "official" anti-cultist for the SBC.

Past tense? Forgive my ignorance who is he?

[Mudcat]

I don't think anyone has an issue with an evangelical pastor endorsing another evangelical. The issue is why is it necessary to do so via the sensationalistic and frankly condescending reference to another's faith. While we may not consider Perry or Jeffriess to embrace a faith that contains the fullness of the gospel we never the less honor, without disparagement, their choice. It's the obnoxious, self-serving, self-righteous, smug arrogance of the remark that bothers people.

Lost in Ohio,

Thanks for a well articulated answer. I do want to draw you back to this notion that leadership type folks from your particular faith group have declared that any Christian that isn't LDS, is an apostate. Not really a nice word if you are a non-LDS Christian.

I would ask if you would think it reasonable that a non-LDS Christian wouldn't view such statements is the same manner as you view things you see as pejorative to your own faith?

Christ talked about folks wanting to help people with specks in their eye, when the people that wanted to help had planks in their own. No accusation here, just thought the analogy meaningful.

Regards,

Mudcat

[Calm]

His fellow at IRR would not vote for a LDS. If the choice was between Romney and Obama, he would do a write in candidate instead because if a Mormon becomes President, this may lead to more people joining LDS, endangering their souls.

Knowing that a vote for a Mormon as president may lead to large numbers of people joining that false religion that might otherwise not have done so, I cannot in good conscience cast such a vote. My concern for their souls and the souls of their children takes precedence over any other consideration.

[MatthewG]

Lost in Ohio,

Thanks for a well articulated answer. I do want to draw you back to this notion that leadership type folks from your particular faith group have declared that any Christian that isn't LDS, is an apostate. Not really a nice word if you are a non-LDS Christian.

I would ask if you would think it reasonable that a non-LDS Christian wouldn't view such statements is the same manner as you view things you see as pejorative to your own faith?

Christ talked about folks wanting to help people with specks in their eye, when the people that wanted to help had planks in their own. No accusation here, just thought the analogy meaningful.

Regards,

Mudcat

I am unaware of any quotes from our current leadership instructing our members to not vote for a specific candidate because they're (you're) apostates. That's hardly the same thing. This guy is mixing religion and politics. He is saying DON'T VOTE FOR ROMNEY BECAUSE HE'S IN A CULT or BECAUSE of his religion.

[Mudcat]

I am unaware of any quotes from our current leadership instructing our members to not vote for a specific candidate because they're (you're) apostates.

I am unaware of any quotes from your current leadership to vote for anyone period.

[MatthewG]

I am unaware of any quotes from your current leadership to vote for anyone period.

Then not much need to bring this up:

I do want to draw you back to this notion that leadership type folks from your particular faith group have declared that any Christian that isn't LDS, is an apostate. Not really a nice word if you are a non-LDS Christian.

I would ask if you would think it reasonable that a non-LDS Christian wouldn't view such statements is the same manner as you view things you see as pejorative to your own faith?

Just because we have referred to non-LDS religions as apostates in the past, it had nothing to do with politics as far as I'm aware of. While it's not nice necessarily to say it, it doesn't have much reference to the topic at hand. That the pastor is saying DONT VOTE FOR HIM CAUSE HE'S IN A CULT.

Edited October 8, 2011 by MatthewG

[Garden Girl]

Lost in Ohio,

Thanks for a well articulated answer. I do want to draw you back to this notion that leadership type folks from your particular faith group have declared that any Christian that isn't LDS, is an apostate. Not really a nice word if you are a non-LDS Christian.

Regards,

Mudcat

Mudcat... you surprise me... when have you heard such words from not only our leadership but membership in general?? I haven't heard of such a sentiment since some of the earliest leaders. Anything I've heard in my 71 years has encouraged me to reach out in love, respect, and friendship to my Christian brothers and sisters of other faiths. Do you think I think of you as an apostate?? Or other non-LDS on this board? You know better...

Hope this finds you and your family doing well... think of you often and remember you in my prayers.

from the beach... GG

[Lost in Ohio]

Lost in Ohio,

Thanks for a well articulated answer. I do want to draw you back to this notion that leadership type folks from your particular faith group have declared that any Christian that isn't LDS, is an apostate. Not really a nice word if you are a non-LDS Christian.

I would ask if you would think it reasonable that a non-LDS Christian wouldn't view such statements is the same manner as you view things you see as pejorative to your own faith?

Christ talked about folks wanting to help people with specks in their eye, when the people that wanted to help had planks in their own. No accusation here, just thought the analogy meaningful.

Regards,

Mudcat

Mudcat, first let me say that I enjoy your posts and find them to be interesting and respectful, an example of the kind of respectful give and take that is sadly missing from much of the discussion about my faith. The issue as I see it here is the way Mr. Jeffress chooses to make his declaration of support. It wasn't enough to simply endorse Perry because he is a good evangelical Christian, no, it was necessary to trot out the tired old label of "cult" to charaterize the faith of Romney. A label deliberately calculate to conjur up visions of human depredation and fear.

It is true that one of the beliefs of my faith is based on the idea that there was a restoration of the fullness of the gospel, which of course necessitates an apostasy. I guess I always find it amusing that anytime a Mormon takes exception to the type of deliberately inflamitory langauge used by Mr. Jeffress and so many others in public discourse against our faith we immediately hear "But Wait! You believe there was an apostasy and therefore consider me an apostate! So there you hypocrite!"

While it is true in a technical sense then that any other faith is apostate, what you won't find is leaders of my church using the same kind of sensational language in public discourse to disparage the faith of others. The notion of deliberatliy labeling another Christian an “aposate” in order to shape discourse in our favor is something most members of my church wouldn’t do. What we will do is to recognize that there are many sincere followers of Christ, some of whom do not choose to accept what we believe to be the fullness of the gosepl. For us that ends the discussion by and large and we leave you free to go your way, without further need to malign, judge, and revel in our own self-righteousness. I think by and large we let the principles of the gospel stand for themselves when taught, to be accepted or rejected by the hearer, without the need to deliberatly mischarectorize other faiths. You won't find in any LDS bookshelf the latest copy of "The maze of Evangelicalism" or "Beware of the Calvanists". Nor will you hear President Monson announce from the pulpit "Vote for Mitt Romney he is a good Mormon, and not an apostate heritic like Rick Perry" or, “To vote for Perry is to vote for Satan!”.

Rather, as a religion rooted in revelation, what you will hear is encouragement for members to study, pray, and vote for the candidate they feel they should.

I’ve no wish to argue, but I'm trying very hard to search for the beam in my own eye on this issue, and I can't really see it. J

[sunstoned]

I don't think anyone has an issue with an evangelical pastor endorsing another evangelical. The issue is why is it necessary to do so via the sensationalistic and frankly condescending reference to another's faith. While we may not consider Perry or Jeffriess to embrace a faith that contains the fullness of the gospel we never the less honor, without disparagement, their choice. It's the obnoxious, self-serving, self-righteous, smug arrogance of the remark that bothers people.

Very well said.

[rpn]

And LDS don't call other christians or other people of any faith apostates, except when they have once been members of the LDS church and have apostasized --- a rather small group that members wouldn't personally generally think it their role to label anyway.